Monaldinio
Prince
.....
Conflict on Chiron
- Thread starter Monaldinio
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Monaldinio
Prince
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See first page of the thread, follow the links...
Slaughter
Paladin
Hey Monaldinho, Ive playing the latest version, and I got some stuff to say. Its long, though:
1. Is there any way to get rid of those New Factions that arent supposed to be there? I like my SMAC pure without fan factions, thanks. By the way, getting rid of these out-of-nowhere factions forever is also not a bad idea.
2. The intro has a typo. You now shape the destiny of your X faction, which has just a CONFLICT ON CHIRON. I think what you meant is something akin to: Which has just engaged in a CONFLICT ON CHIRON.
3. Im no professional writer, and English is my second language (glorious Portuguese is my first, of course), but I could write some datalink entries for you. I think my English is good enough not to sound bad or ridiculous. I would be glad to help.
4. Factions still lack disadvantages, I remember you asked me for suggestions some months back, heres some, I hope you like them:
Cybernetic Consciousness:
- Slower growth (has trouble grasping normal reproduction due to their cold, cybernetic nature)
Cult of Planet:
- Less general production, say, 25% (anti-polution to the max, etc)
- Less trade, say, 20% (anti-materialist and with ascetic tendencies, doesnt care for money besides how much that money can help the cause of the Cult. Also, the Cult is considered weird and dangerous by other factions, so most factions dont like to trade with them, even the Morganites)
Data Angels:
- Minus happiness, say, 20% extra (Semi-anarchic society that doesnt like governmental control. Government has a harder time controlling people)
- Perhaps a more drawn-out period of anarchy? The Data Angels are a very free society, they would probably spend a good time debating the change to their society, which may drag down necessary changes.
Free Drones:
- Less XP points (to simulate the fact the Free Drone movement is made of Drones, therefore people of lower classes that wouldnt be trusted to command armies, which means their military is essentially composed by a bunch of NCOs and outcast Junior Officers that sympathized with the Free Drone cause. The Human Wave Attack mentality only makes it worse. Think the army of the French revolution before the competent commanders took over but after other Europeans changed tactics to fight their numbers)
- Less research points, say, 20% or 15%. (once again, a problem from their origins. Theyre essentially a faction made of drones, the uneducated and often oppressed lower-class of menial laborers. Not many scientists amongst them, after all, what scientists would associate with a bunch of revolutionary menial laborers?)
- Perhaps some sort of diplomatic penalty? The Free Drones would probably be seen in Chiron something akin to how everyone saw Revolutionary France, Maoist China or the USSR A bunch of crazy, dangerous revolutionaries that consort and infiltrate the lower classes in their dangerous, possibly blood-drenched revolution.
Gaians:
- Unsure, but the Gaians were pacifists and libertarians, they should get penalties at controlling their society and fighting wars.
Hive:
- Unsure, but Im sure they have TOO MANY MILITARY BONUSES. Seriously, take some out.
- A good idea is to reduce their energy trade, the Hive is a very authoritarian faction and probably desires self-sufficiency anyway. Perhaps a energy penalty to make sure they wont care about the first penalty just because theyre using Autarky.
Believers:
- -25% research reduction seems like a good penalty. (not because RELIJIUS PEPLE AR DUMB, but because they have a very careful approach to science and its potential for oppression and jeopardy to the human race. Miriam and her people no Luddites, Luddites dont travel in starships to other stars.)
Caretakers and Usurpers:
- Did they even had disadvantages in the original game? From what I remember, they were SUPPOSED to be cheesy.
Morganites:
- Unsure, probably some base upkeep penalty (all those luxuries).
Pirates:
- Unsure, perhaps a diplomatic (besides their usual non-membership on council) or a small growth penalty.
Spartans:
- Slower industry?
- Perhaps more expensive military upkeep? (got to keep those elite troops well-paid, properly armed and fed)
Peacekeepers:
- A extra distance penalty to base upkeep? (simulates corruption and bureocracy)
University:
- Extra drones, of course.
Bear in mind I dont know what are the limits of CivIV modding, so if my suggestions seem silly or impossible, dont think Im crazy, I just never modded anything.
5. What about some way for the Pirates to be recruited by one faction to prey on another, like Privateers? Maybe a spy action one can do against a faction if hes friendly to the pirates, with the results that the affected city or faction loses trade route energy coming though the water. Of course, this should also give money to both the contracting faction and the Pirates. Privateering is profitable, ask the English.
6. A idea which I call Atrocity System. What is the atrocity System? The Atrocity system is a idea based on atrocities in SMAC, combined with the infamy systems of Paradox games. Essentially, the Atrocity system serves to make factions (especially the player) be on their guard about their actions, and make their conquests slower.
So heres a example of things that heighten the Atrocity count:
Nerve-Stappling (unsure how to add it to cities, maybe having a unit with the Nerve Staple promotion makes it increase slowly, so having lots of cities full of nerve staples result in atrocity rising faster than you can make it go down).
Battles (little raises, though)
Occupying a city (medium raise. This is to simulate oppression, rape n plunder and foreign fear at enemy warmongering)
Razed Cities (BIG raise, the bigger the city the worse the atrocity point increase. This might mean hes not afraid of extermination and even genocide, which wont make other factions endeared to him)
Attacks using hidden nationality units (small, but can sting)
Destroying a faction (HUGE raise, makes everyone else afraid of what the player can do next)
Pillaging (small)
General probe team actions (the bigger, the worse)
Planet Buster attacks (Im thinking one or two for immediate war on everyone else)
Atrocity Count 0-10: Normal situation. Faction is considered ok or at least keeps their evil inside their borders.
10-20: Trade sanctions (light). Faction is considerate a little rogue and other leaders should be wary.
20-30: Trade sanctions (severe), worsened relations with factions that respect human rights and freedom (Peacekeepers, Gaians, Data Angels). Faction is considered as outcast and dangerous. The U.N can call a intervention against this Faction.
30-40: A U.N Intervention Vote is called immediately. Total trade sanctions, relations worsen with factions that respect individual freedom and independence (Morganites, Spartans, University). Faction is considered rogue and out of hand.
40-50: Faction is considered totally rogue and totally untrustworthy. Everyone declares war.
My idea is that factions that go randomly pillaging, razing cities, conquering factions wholesale, razing towns, nerve-stappling, sabotaging with espionage and all that bad stuff should pay a price for it, depending on the degrees of its deeds. At best, it should face some
How it would work: Ever play Europa Universalis 3? Essentially, the Infamy system (also know as Bad Boy) makes the players infamy rise every time he does something menacing, like declaring a unprovoked war, conquering enemy provinces, or even annexing a entire nation. It eventually goes down with time.
Well, my idea is that it punishes the player who goes in crazy conquering sprees, razes lots of cities, attacks the enemy with lots of spies, etc. Essentially, playing rogue and dangerous has high rewards, but high risks. The player needs to be more subtle and be generally less crazy conquering, or else all other factions gang up on him and he may dies a horrible death.
7. Can you get rid of units that dont belong, like those weird Star Wars units?
8. It is just me or most or all land plots are fresh water? I saw this before building Unity Hydroponics Bay.
1. Is there any way to get rid of those New Factions that arent supposed to be there? I like my SMAC pure without fan factions, thanks. By the way, getting rid of these out-of-nowhere factions forever is also not a bad idea.
2. The intro has a typo. You now shape the destiny of your X faction, which has just a CONFLICT ON CHIRON. I think what you meant is something akin to: Which has just engaged in a CONFLICT ON CHIRON.
3. Im no professional writer, and English is my second language (glorious Portuguese is my first, of course), but I could write some datalink entries for you. I think my English is good enough not to sound bad or ridiculous. I would be glad to help.
4. Factions still lack disadvantages, I remember you asked me for suggestions some months back, heres some, I hope you like them:
Cybernetic Consciousness:
- Slower growth (has trouble grasping normal reproduction due to their cold, cybernetic nature)
Cult of Planet:
- Less general production, say, 25% (anti-polution to the max, etc)
- Less trade, say, 20% (anti-materialist and with ascetic tendencies, doesnt care for money besides how much that money can help the cause of the Cult. Also, the Cult is considered weird and dangerous by other factions, so most factions dont like to trade with them, even the Morganites)
Data Angels:
- Minus happiness, say, 20% extra (Semi-anarchic society that doesnt like governmental control. Government has a harder time controlling people)
- Perhaps a more drawn-out period of anarchy? The Data Angels are a very free society, they would probably spend a good time debating the change to their society, which may drag down necessary changes.
Free Drones:
- Less XP points (to simulate the fact the Free Drone movement is made of Drones, therefore people of lower classes that wouldnt be trusted to command armies, which means their military is essentially composed by a bunch of NCOs and outcast Junior Officers that sympathized with the Free Drone cause. The Human Wave Attack mentality only makes it worse. Think the army of the French revolution before the competent commanders took over but after other Europeans changed tactics to fight their numbers)
- Less research points, say, 20% or 15%. (once again, a problem from their origins. Theyre essentially a faction made of drones, the uneducated and often oppressed lower-class of menial laborers. Not many scientists amongst them, after all, what scientists would associate with a bunch of revolutionary menial laborers?)
- Perhaps some sort of diplomatic penalty? The Free Drones would probably be seen in Chiron something akin to how everyone saw Revolutionary France, Maoist China or the USSR A bunch of crazy, dangerous revolutionaries that consort and infiltrate the lower classes in their dangerous, possibly blood-drenched revolution.
Gaians:
- Unsure, but the Gaians were pacifists and libertarians, they should get penalties at controlling their society and fighting wars.
Hive:
- Unsure, but Im sure they have TOO MANY MILITARY BONUSES. Seriously, take some out.
- A good idea is to reduce their energy trade, the Hive is a very authoritarian faction and probably desires self-sufficiency anyway. Perhaps a energy penalty to make sure they wont care about the first penalty just because theyre using Autarky.
Believers:
- -25% research reduction seems like a good penalty. (not because RELIJIUS PEPLE AR DUMB, but because they have a very careful approach to science and its potential for oppression and jeopardy to the human race. Miriam and her people no Luddites, Luddites dont travel in starships to other stars.)
Caretakers and Usurpers:
- Did they even had disadvantages in the original game? From what I remember, they were SUPPOSED to be cheesy.
Morganites:
- Unsure, probably some base upkeep penalty (all those luxuries).
Pirates:
- Unsure, perhaps a diplomatic (besides their usual non-membership on council) or a small growth penalty.
Spartans:
- Slower industry?
- Perhaps more expensive military upkeep? (got to keep those elite troops well-paid, properly armed and fed)
Peacekeepers:
- A extra distance penalty to base upkeep? (simulates corruption and bureocracy)
University:
- Extra drones, of course.
Bear in mind I dont know what are the limits of CivIV modding, so if my suggestions seem silly or impossible, dont think Im crazy, I just never modded anything.
5. What about some way for the Pirates to be recruited by one faction to prey on another, like Privateers? Maybe a spy action one can do against a faction if hes friendly to the pirates, with the results that the affected city or faction loses trade route energy coming though the water. Of course, this should also give money to both the contracting faction and the Pirates. Privateering is profitable, ask the English.
6. A idea which I call Atrocity System. What is the atrocity System? The Atrocity system is a idea based on atrocities in SMAC, combined with the infamy systems of Paradox games. Essentially, the Atrocity system serves to make factions (especially the player) be on their guard about their actions, and make their conquests slower.
So heres a example of things that heighten the Atrocity count:
Nerve-Stappling (unsure how to add it to cities, maybe having a unit with the Nerve Staple promotion makes it increase slowly, so having lots of cities full of nerve staples result in atrocity rising faster than you can make it go down).
Battles (little raises, though)
Occupying a city (medium raise. This is to simulate oppression, rape n plunder and foreign fear at enemy warmongering)
Razed Cities (BIG raise, the bigger the city the worse the atrocity point increase. This might mean hes not afraid of extermination and even genocide, which wont make other factions endeared to him)
Attacks using hidden nationality units (small, but can sting)
Destroying a faction (HUGE raise, makes everyone else afraid of what the player can do next)
Pillaging (small)
General probe team actions (the bigger, the worse)
Planet Buster attacks (Im thinking one or two for immediate war on everyone else)
Atrocity Count 0-10: Normal situation. Faction is considered ok or at least keeps their evil inside their borders.
10-20: Trade sanctions (light). Faction is considerate a little rogue and other leaders should be wary.
20-30: Trade sanctions (severe), worsened relations with factions that respect human rights and freedom (Peacekeepers, Gaians, Data Angels). Faction is considered as outcast and dangerous. The U.N can call a intervention against this Faction.
30-40: A U.N Intervention Vote is called immediately. Total trade sanctions, relations worsen with factions that respect individual freedom and independence (Morganites, Spartans, University). Faction is considered rogue and out of hand.
40-50: Faction is considered totally rogue and totally untrustworthy. Everyone declares war.
My idea is that factions that go randomly pillaging, razing cities, conquering factions wholesale, razing towns, nerve-stappling, sabotaging with espionage and all that bad stuff should pay a price for it, depending on the degrees of its deeds. At best, it should face some
How it would work: Ever play Europa Universalis 3? Essentially, the Infamy system (also know as Bad Boy) makes the players infamy rise every time he does something menacing, like declaring a unprovoked war, conquering enemy provinces, or even annexing a entire nation. It eventually goes down with time.
Well, my idea is that it punishes the player who goes in crazy conquering sprees, razes lots of cities, attacks the enemy with lots of spies, etc. Essentially, playing rogue and dangerous has high rewards, but high risks. The player needs to be more subtle and be generally less crazy conquering, or else all other factions gang up on him and he may dies a horrible death.
7. Can you get rid of units that dont belong, like those weird Star Wars units?
8. It is just me or most or all land plots are fresh water? I saw this before building Unity Hydroponics Bay.
Monaldinio
Prince
3.) yes, i would be pleased! My englisch is a shame!!!
You can find all Textes in assets/XML/Text...
1.) Wich factions do you mean?! The quarians, cerberus and the swarm?? Or all the expansion factions?!? Yes it is possible... You can check the option in a custom Game.
The other points...ich will answer later, okey?!?
You can find all Textes in assets/XML/Text...
1.) Wich factions do you mean?! The quarians, cerberus and the swarm?? Or all the expansion factions?!? Yes it is possible... You can check the option in a custom Game.
The other points...ich will answer later, okey?!?
Monaldinio
Prince
7.) You can build the Star wars Units??? In Coc 2.2??? I takle them out for a long time! So i wonder...:-/ They should not buildable...
2.) Thats textediting, no Problem!
4.)
Cybernetic Consciousnes:
Should be no Problem, i could Give them a Penalty on population grow...or -1 Food on several yealds.
Cult of Planet:
Less Production is no Problem...
Less trade...have to think about it how i can manage it.
Data Angels:
-20% happines, have to think about it how i can manage it. I can give -1/2/3 happines for each Base... But -20%?!
In general you have made some Suggestion i dont know how i can handle this, but i can ask for help in the Forum!
Thanks for your suggestions, i hope i can handle 80%.
2.) Thats textediting, no Problem!
4.)
Cybernetic Consciousnes:
Should be no Problem, i could Give them a Penalty on population grow...or -1 Food on several yealds.
Cult of Planet:
Less Production is no Problem...
Less trade...have to think about it how i can manage it.
Data Angels:
-20% happines, have to think about it how i can manage it. I can give -1/2/3 happines for each Base... But -20%?!
In general you have made some Suggestion i dont know how i can handle this, but i can ask for help in the Forum!
Thanks for your suggestions, i hope i can handle 80%.
Monaldinio
Prince
Thats BtS...this buildings are not avaiable in the Mod!
Monaldinio
Prince
Many of these ideas are already there.
Whenever you razed a base, your reputation falls to the AI.
If you destroy a faction, you're seen as a warmonger. This also applies if you are too often and too long at war.
You can only pillige when you're at war, war always means a deterioration of the relationship with the AI. What can you get worse?
Whenever a spy is caught spying, your reputation decreases against the AI. Use 4 in 4 turns and see whats happens.
Once you are using Planet Buster, your reputation falls rapidly towards all AIs!
You can adopted trade sanctions through the UN, as well as via the Concordat. And thhe AI can the same...all you need is to vote for.
You explain the Total war by the UN, as well as via the Concordat. You need only obtain the necessary votes.
Whenever you hurt the Ai, you will be punished with poor diplomatic prestige.
The UN and the Concordat gives you lots of possibilities, as well as the Al.
The punishment of the factions, wich you have mentioned under 4.) , I believe that much can be done, in one way or another.
Monaldinio
Prince
I think I'm going to separate the additional factions, the quarians, the swarm, Cerberus and the aquatorians (the aquatorians will add with the update 3b) as an addon to Conflict on Chiron...
It was to much work to delate them...and i think they are well done....
In this way everyone can decide by themselves what they want...
It was to much work to delate them...and i think they are well done....
In this way everyone can decide by themselves what they want...
Slaughter
Paladin
1. Didn't get to their tech level yet, but they're still on datalinks.
2. Yeah, I know more about that now.
4. -1 food seems too harsh, less growth seems softer.
When I give numbers, its more of a general idea.
Interesting, didn't know all that.
Good idea, makes more sense.
If you're going to add new factions, I suggest you to find a archieve of the old Network Node site and see the best factions there and add the ones that make more sense with the theme of the game.
Now for a LOT of feedback:
Hey Monaldinho, Ive been playing, and I wanted to post about some things I noticed, and some suggestions:
About the newly-added Progenitor factions:
1.The Progenitors are not at war with each other, at all. Hell, theyre downright friendly and its common for humans to be buddies with both sides. In fact, the aliens are very friendly to each other. They should be feeling UTTER HATRED at each other and fighting forever and ever, including humans who side with their foe. If my memory serves me right, the Progenitors hate each others guts so much they forgot the meaning of neutral.
I remember from the expansion that the Caretakers and Usurpers constantly nagged the player (and other factions) about his/her peace with the other side, and if the player didnt essentially declare immediate war on the other side, they declared war themselves on the player. There was none of this neutrality silliness with the Progenitor factions, and there shouldnt be.
Neutrality subverts the idea of Alien Crossfire the whole concept of humans caught up in a war between two alien factions that hate each other for millennia. I remember sharing a continent with the two aliens was hell, you had to fight off alien hordes from one side or the other, sometimes both because other factions ALSO got angry at the aliens, and sometimes they were strong enough to keep you afraid of them/interested in continuing a alliance.
That inst happening so far. I can be buddy with both alien factions at the same time, ok, maybe not buddies with both because its likely my civics/religion offends one or the other, but they dont insta-fight me if I refuse to insta-fight their hated foes. Hell, in this game Im playing, Santiago, Domai and even Deirdre nagged me dozens of times to attack Santiago/Domai in their little eternal blood feud, but Conqueror Marr never sent me a message telling me he wants me to stop co-operating with their blood enemies, the Caretakers. Hell, theyre not even fighting each other, Marr actually holds a protectorate over Hminee. Theres so much wrong with the last sentence.
2. Aliens can be offered Planetary Council seats. What the hell? Aliens shouldnt enter the Planetary Council; its a human-only club for many reasons. For starters, any organization that included one or BOTH alien groups would be affected by their non-stop civil war. Theyre aliens, they can barely be understood. They have no legitimacy as members of the Council, all who are in some way connected to the Unity. Despite their relative friendliness, both factions overall plan ends with a boot stomping on the face of the human race, forever.
Definitively not Planetary Council material, these Progenitors. Perhaps a Progenitor council member civic the aliens are always stuck on? Non-member could also work.
3. Its a pity theres no atrocities on the game so far, I loved how they encouraged you to be UTTER RUTHLESS fighting the aliens in SMAX. Human x Human and Alien x Alien wars were totally ruthless, with casual use of nerve gas pods, penalty-less base razing and large falls of population occurring at human-alien city transitions. Talk about total war!
4. City-names used by both sets of aliens are repeated. So the Usurpers got a bunch of cities called Courage and the Caretakers got a lot of cities called Decision. I dont think the Progenitors are supposed to be uncreative 
5. Humans shouldnt be able to talk with the aliens (and vice-versa) without research, like in SMAX. If I remember right, Progenitors had to research Social Psych and humans had to Research Progenitor Psych or something like that. Humans and aliens speaking each others languages out of nowhere is silly.
6. The aliens talk normally. Their diplo-talk needs to be changed (IE copied from the original game, with some extra additions) to their weird and creepy Subject: Answer sentence structure.
7. I havent reached that part of the game, but the Aliens shouldnt enter the end-game Transcendence/Anti-Transcendence struggle like the human factions. They dont fit because their aims are self-exclusive and every alien victory always involves a boot stomping on the face of the human race forever, one way or another.
The Caretakers dont want ANYONE doing any Transcendence, lest it fails, another Flowering happens and their civilization dies once again. The Usurpers want to transcend for themselves, they dont want any silly humans reaching Godhood before them. Humans want to transcend, or not.* Im unsure how they would fit in the traditional victory, and there needs to be a way to stop the Aliens from simply being stomped into the ground by the two end-game alliances.
*SMAX hinted Transcendence has the danger of causing untold havoc in the form of a Planetary Flowering, its never specified what is it, but it seems to have almost destroyed Progenitor society in the past. Humans finding out from Progenitor data that theres a immense risk Transcendence will cause untold devastation upon them is a very good reason for the end-game Transcendence struggle. This time, theres no Unity for humanity to live on. More on that bellow.
Diplomacy:
1. Im playing as Miriam (Miriam/Fundie/Power/Terraforming/Edenist, heck of a killer anti-planet combo) and I noticed I cant get a protectorate over anybody because making peace with your enemies is not possible for you. Im pretty sure this is being caused by the fact Cha Dawn is at war with me because Im the biggest polluter at a whooping -9.74 Planet rating.
This means I got a foe with a eternal (I dont think anyone will surpass my immense anti-planet rating any day) vendetta against me, and hes screwing my chances at getting a Protectorate. This could be annoying to any faction that is the biggest polluter (Cha Dawn attacks them until they stop or he dies) or to the aliens once theyre fixed so theyre forever at war with each other. Is there any way to get rid of the making peace with your enemies is not possible for you impediment to getting a Protectorate?
2. I noticed one of the resources in the game is oil, though only on oceans. Its cannon theres no Fossil Fuels in Chiron because the Planetminds ecological regulation of Chiron means super-efficient carbon recycling, so the ingredients for oil are never allowed to become oil. So, oil as a resource is cannon-breaking and it shouldnt be there.
Religion:
1. No way of removing a religion? I find it silly to play factions like Believers or Hive and have no way of removing a religion I dont like with some sort of, say, Inquisitor unit. Was that a oversight by the Planetfall devs (mwahahahahah, swallow that annoying religious minority, deal with it!), or actually intended?
2. Why are religions still called religions? They dont seem very religious to me. The only one that includes some sort of worship is the Voice of Planet, and thats only radicals like Dawns crazies who worship Planet as a God. The others dont worship anything. It would be much more correct to call them Ideologies or Philosophies.
3. Its just me or most factions adopt Voice of Planet? In my current game, 11 factions are Voice of Planet, one is Edenist (me), two follow Ascetic Virtues, one follows Homo Superior and two factions are still unknown. (yes, even in the 2400s, weird). Is that related to the fact there are two Secret Projects (The Concordat and Dawn of Planet) spreading Voice of Planet?
4. Theres some problem I just perceived, involving Religions and Aliens. In my current Miriam game, Hminee follows Ascetic Virtues and Marr follows Voice of Planet. The religions/ideologies as conceived are human constructs. The aliens may have their own equivalents, but the idea of aliens following human ideas is strange, to say the least.
Should the aliens follow the same religions as humans? Lets see: Voice of Planet is all about more communication with the Planetmind and respect for the native environment. Seems to fits the Caretakers but they NEVER transcend and would actively destroy anyone who tries to reach Transcendence. The Usurpers seem to regard the Manifolds as merely means of reaching Godhood, they dont seem to care about Planet as a environment or being, so they dont see any reason to communicate with it, just use it for transcendence. VoP doesnt fit them, it seems.
Edenism doesnt fit or doesnt seem to fit the Progenitors. Edenism is the belief in re-creating Terra on Chiron though the means of terraformation, large-scale population growth and re-creation of the Earthly biosphere. Theres no evidence of the aliens ever having any interest in re-creating their native planets on Chiron. Marr needs Planet as it is so he and his faction turn into Gods, Hminee wants to keep Planet pristine and stop transcendence. That said, both factions (especially Usurpers) might see large-scale terraformation as necessary to achieve their goals IE grow a lot to crush their rivals.
Ascetic Virtues is all about leading a disciplined, concentrated life in a hostile environment. The Progenitors come from a ultra-advanced star-faring civilization, and their own Planetfall sent them something akin to one or two millennia of technological advancement behind. Essentially, it would be like if two small cities from 2012 were sent to 12 AD technological levels, and to make it worse theyve just landed on a hostile virgin planet, with primitive aliens included. I could see Ascetism becoming a way of life as both factions labor on, dreaming and yearning of the day they would develop the technology to call reinforcements and get off that primitive rock, or alternatively, transcend and become gods in the Usurpers case.
Homo Superior is all about becoming better, either though trans-humanism, training or achieving a more rational and intelligent mind. The Usurpers seem pretty bent on becoming Gods though Transcendence, so trans-progenitorianism seems to fit them, but not the Caretakers. I dont remember anything about the Caretakers that might make them more in-line with Homo Superior.
So, Caretakers seems to be Voice of Planet (but without Transcendence), Usurpers seems to fit Homo Superior, Ascetic Virtues seem to fit both and Edenism seems unfit to both except on matters of Terraforming? Should the religion of the Progenitors be fixed (like the Cult) or should their religion be flexible? Or they should follow no religion? You (or the players) decide.
Technology:
1. Am I the only one who thinks the tech-tree needs to be fattened and re-arranged? For example, Orbital Engineering, Needlejets and Secrets of Alpha Centauri are pretty near to each other on the tech tree. From Biofuels and Doctrine: Air Power to Needlejets theres something like three or four technological advances.
The point is: The techtree seems weird, small and disjointed. Until the sixth row of technologies, it seems to be proceeding smoothly, then it goes crazy as we see Secrets of Alpha Centauri near Needlejets and Orbital Engineering after Secrets of Alpha Centauri, Gravships one tech after Needlejets, etc. Its like a big chunk of the mid-to-early end game of SMAC is missing. This is a big problem and I would suggest you to ask the Planetfall devs about it.
2. Alien-crossfire techs and such are missing, things like Adaptable Economics and stuff. Granted, not all SMAC/SMAX techs have to be copied to Planetfall/Conflict on Chiron, but there needs to be some equivalent to them and the things that come from the, at least. For example, there were a lot of buildings in SMAX that made sea colonies more interesting.
Others:
1. You know what this mod needs? EVENTS! SMAC had its own events to shake up the game. Remember? Herculess (Alpha Centauri B, the second star of the binary system) translation making the native life increase and then decrease; communication problems due to solar flare making factions incommunicable from time to time; viral infections breaking out, etcetera. You could add more, but the key is remaining faithful to feel of the original game.
2. I wonder if quests would fit the game. I like the idea of having to commit your faction to quests.
3. The abilities Accuracy and Heavy Artillery do the same thing. The only difference is that Accuracy can be used by Orbital units, whereas Heavy Artillery cannot. This makes it quite silly to build mass drivers and other similar units and see two abilities that do the same thing.
4. I never once saw Isles of the Deep transporting Mind Worms to attack me. As it is, they are just acting like visible, less predatorial Sealurks.
Suggestions:
1. Add economic victory. It was the ultimate peaceful builder strategy, and it would be very nice to see a remade economic victory in Conflict on Chiron. Wonder if any new twists could be brought from it.
2. Increasing the game time. As it is, in huge maps with lots of islands and water theres no enough time for factions to fill out the map because the increase of the Flowering counter, combined with the onslaught of native life from the seas screw up with expansion. The fact the tech tree is weird and incomplete makes the way things go and advance very weird. I think 2800 or even 3000 MY would be a nice end-date.
3. Religions need some extra spice. Religion-specific buildings, Secret Projects, National Wonders and Units would improve the game immensely. Some suggestions taking the character of every religion in mind:
Voice of Planet: Im thinking units that fight better in natural environments, using the natural terrain of planet to their advantage and employing methods that allow them to stimulate the growth of xenofungus (remember the missile from SMAX?), attract native life to certain areas and even recruiting (hidden nationality?) eco-terrorists to fight against planet-unfriendly factions.
Edenism: Units Im unsure, perhaps units that help them against native life and planet-friendly factions. What kind of unit would help Edenist players to re-make Earth on Chiron? Buildings that help happiness, growth and productivity seem obvious here, perhaps more benefits to a eco-friendly yet anti-planet Edenist?. Edenism is all about re-making Earth on Chiron, growing and prospering on a newly-made Promised Land.
Homo Superior: Homo Superior could get some extra enhanced units and buildings that involve the use of technology and logic to create better soldiers, better pilots, better scientists, better EVERYTHING. Of course, there should be some sort of price to their struggle to create Better Everything, perhaps a over-reliance on expensive equipment and dangerous genetics. Homo Superior is all about people becoming better though study and technology.
Ascetic Virtues: Units in the form of cheaper, more easily replaceable units that allow one to live with meager yet more effective armies? Buildings that allow colonies to live in more hostile and meager conditions and make the population happier with less luxuries*? Essentially, Ascetic Virtues is all about doing more with less in order to survive.
4. More unique units and buildings. Ive been playing Miriam and I think its very strange to see Miriam employing InVitros, Genejack factories and other science-horrors.
Also, I've done some changes in Unit Datalink entries, sending you the first ones as soon as possible.
Monaldinio
Prince
I know about the problem with the Aliens, the Python Code for "always in war" works fine as long as you (a human player) is one of the Alien Factions...
I hope the new Code works better...
You are right, the Aliens are to nice to the human factions...but i think i can handle it easy with the LeaderheadInfos / CivilizationInfo.
Aliens should not enter the Council, thats right, i will work on it.
atrocities???
Whats that?!?! I play SMAC/X...never heard! On the one hand you you said, you want penalty for base razing...and now?!?! Or did you mean base razing from the Aliens is allowed?!?!I've also noticed, but I do not know why!
Good idea!
That could be your Part!
I've told you where to find all the texts. Now you just have to find the SMAX texts and and paste them to the aliens...Mhmmm...i know what you mean, i think it could be a problem. I put it on the list... but even to the end -.)
Mhmmm...you mean it is logical impossible...
But what about other resources, such as iridium or something like that?? These were created by certain processes. Not by decomposition, pressure and heat...but...
Then we need to rethink all of the resources!
There is an SDK Modkomponenet wich can remove religion, but I am a one man show, I have not so much time to do all the thinks I want to do. Time is always a factor. But I've also been thinking about it.
Thats a good idea! I like the religion System of Civ 5...maybe I'll try to recreate it for CoC.
I think this effect is cause by an error, which I have made! Fungus give a to hight planet value ... The factions rather cultivate fungus, so they have a very good abnormal planet value ... and follow this religion. I changed the values ​​for the Fugus, I hope more factions exploit the planet...
Right! ...and of the list! It is easy to give them favorite religionsThat's very interesting, especially because I think to many technologies are packed with things that can be unlocked by them. CoC needs more technologies ! I would like to entrust you with it to filter out all techs from SMAX that,in your opinion, still missing. As well as the building and promotions ect. with where unlocked by them...
And after that, we consider what can be added and how to expand the tech tree.
I have startet to add Events...but not quests...
That was my mistake, one of the two promotions will be deleted!
I saw them plenty of times...
1. This is possible ...
2. This is related to the fungus problem above, the new values ​​should fit better.
3. I've already mentioned how I imagine the future religions system...
4. This part is difficult because there are not so many suitable models for a Sci Fi mod, in the downloadsection.
I definitely have enough food for the next month! The update 3b, in wich I separate the "Fan Factions" + a few small changes (Fungus), will be released next week!
Thanks Slaughter!
Much Info...
Slaughter
Paladin
Hey Monaldinho, just some last stuff I noticed while playing:
1. I started a game with the Pirates and noticed that fighting native life on water was HARD. There's no equivalent of Flamethrowners on water. They're seriously needed. This means that being Anti-Planet near water is BAD. The best thing to do is use promotions and hope you don't get roflpwned. There's a immense need for a anti-native water unit.
2. I discovered why most factions adopt Voice of Planet. Its not the fungus' planet value fault. Its the fault of a Concordat resolution called "Spread the Voice of Planet", and everytime its aproved (it usually is), everyone that is part of the Concordat gets a Acolyte, which the AI uses. The problem is that everyone who's even remotely Planet-friendly has Concordat membership, which means that the Concordat makes everyone into VoP followers. Only ones who seem to avoid this are the Believers (anti-planet penalty stops it) and Religion founders. The only solutions I see is to eliminate the resolution or make Concordat membership more strict. As it is, Voice of Planet will always dominate because the AI usually has at least +1 Planet rating.
1. I started a game with the Pirates and noticed that fighting native life on water was HARD. There's no equivalent of Flamethrowners on water. They're seriously needed. This means that being Anti-Planet near water is BAD. The best thing to do is use promotions and hope you don't get roflpwned. There's a immense need for a anti-native water unit.
2. I discovered why most factions adopt Voice of Planet. Its not the fungus' planet value fault. Its the fault of a Concordat resolution called "Spread the Voice of Planet", and everytime its aproved (it usually is), everyone that is part of the Concordat gets a Acolyte, which the AI uses. The problem is that everyone who's even remotely Planet-friendly has Concordat membership, which means that the Concordat makes everyone into VoP followers. Only ones who seem to avoid this are the Believers (anti-planet penalty stops it) and Religion founders. The only solutions I see is to eliminate the resolution or make Concordat membership more strict. As it is, Voice of Planet will always dominate because the AI usually has at least +1 Planet rating.
Monaldinio
Prince
2. I "discovered" the same...i dropt that to the tech Affinity-Gen...
Furthermore, I have moved the Religious Voice of the planet to the tech Centauri Empathy.
Because Voice of the Planet is the first religion that can ever be explored, it is no wonder that they spread so quickly .
Additionally the spreading accelerated by the council vote.
I hope by dropping VoP backward , other religions comes into its own...
I would not delete this vote.
We will see what happen...
The "Aline always at War" Code works now.
The problem with the Councilmembership is solved.
I think about if I create two extra religions for the aliens which will be their prefered religions...
1. Mhmmm...thats an argument! But how could they look like???
Isn't it logical, that something like that is not avaivable at sea at the beginning and can only acquired by promotions later?
Furthermore, I have moved the Religious Voice of the planet to the tech Centauri Empathy.
Because Voice of the Planet is the first religion that can ever be explored, it is no wonder that they spread so quickly .
Additionally the spreading accelerated by the council vote.
I hope by dropping VoP backward , other religions comes into its own...
I would not delete this vote.
We will see what happen...
The "Aline always at War" Code works now.
The problem with the Councilmembership is solved.
I think about if I create two extra religions for the aliens which will be their prefered religions...
1. Mhmmm...thats an argument! But how could they look like???
Isn't it logical, that something like that is not avaivable at sea at the beginning and can only acquired by promotions later?
Slaughter
Paladin
I don't think you need to create two religions just for the aliens, but it could work. The GURPS supplement could help.
2. Makes sense, by the time the vote appears most factions should already have their own religion.
Why was that resolution created, by the way?
1. How could they look like? Don't know, if someone asked me "look, we need something on the water to fight the native life! NOW!" Let's see... guns don't work, plasma would't work underwater, lasers underwater are useless, so no resonance weapons.... I think I would suggest somesort of underwater incendiary, like Thermite weapons. Alternatively, Sonic weaponry would also work.
I'm thinking something akin to a submarine with a sonar converted into a sonic weapon. Alternatively, a submarine, missile frigate or torpedo boat firing missiles with underwater incendiaries.
Monaldinio
Prince
I would say to spread the VoP as fast as possible...
Maybe even to gain the Transcend victory?!
In order to be elected y the Concordat as the winner?!
Sonic...mhmmm...sounds interesting.
I think onley the pirates will get this unit, the rest must get along with the promotion.
What do you think...
I could also add a unique promotion (which can not be forgiven regualr) for this model, somthing like "sonic generator" +25% vs nativ Life
The unit could start with this promotion.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=11623
Monaldinio
Prince
NEW Update 3b - 9.10.12
This download package includes all factions of SMAX + the "Fan Factions" invented by me ...
There will be also a download package, in which the original SMAX factions are playable only...
Rapidshare
https://rapidshare.com/files/1829469667/Update_3b_-_Conflict_on_Chiron_v2.0.exe
Filefront
http://www.gamefront.com/files/22423551/Update_3b_-_Conflict_on_Chiron_v2.0.exe
ChangeLog
This download package includes all factions of SMAX + the "Fan Factions" invented by me ...
There will be also a download package, in which the original SMAX factions are playable only...
Rapidshare
https://rapidshare.com/files/1829469667/Update_3b_-_Conflict_on_Chiron_v2.0.exe
Filefront
http://www.gamefront.com/files/22423551/Update_3b_-_Conflict_on_Chiron_v2.0.exe
ChangeLog
Spoiler :
Attachments
Monaldinio
Prince
Slaughter
Paladin
Pity I can't test your new version for now, Monaldinho, my main computer, as I told you, has a problem, which I don't know when I will fix.
Ah, I knew there was something wrong with my Formers and Aquaformers that would't return to normal. And here I was thinking it was just my own bad luck!
Ah, I knew there was something wrong with my Formers and Aquaformers that would't return to normal. And here I was thinking it was just my own bad luck!
Monaldinio
Prince
Hey Ho to all who follow this thread!
It's been a few days, I can see that some have downloaded the new update ...
I would like to know how the new version fills, if there are any bugs, ect ...
It's been a few days, I can see that some have downloaded the new update ...
I would like to know how the new version fills, if there are any bugs, ect ...
Heiwod Jablomi
Chieftain
- Joined
- Oct 26, 2012
- Messages
- 30
This is awesome, thanks man!
- Status
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