Confused about conflicting opinions: To buy or not to buy?

[monsterfurby]

Greeting everyone!
Before I set off on my semester abroad in China, I was firmly resolved that, once I get back in February, the first thing I would do is buy Civilization V and enjoy some of the new Civilization goodness. However, my enthusiasm for CiV has waned somewhat after following this forum for the past few months, and now I can only say that I am not sure whether CiV will be worth the money and excitement.
To be honest, there are a few games on my list to buy when I get back, but being on a student's budget, not all of them will make the cut. CiV was my favourite, but is not being chased off that position by a number of other candidates - the newest EU3 expansion, Fable 3, even Elemental and so forth. So here is my question (intelligently asked in a forum called Civ-Fanatics ): All things considered, is Civilization 5 a good game? - A game I should be excited for, a game I will not regret spending money on?

Now, please note that I like complexity to a certain degree, but loathe micromanagement. I have a very short attention span when it comes to games and will occasionally buy a new game at full price only to play it for a few minutes and then run off with childlike glee to play something entirely different, often regretting the purchase afterwards. Civ 4 had the distinction of not falling into that category, but rather actually giving me my money's worth in playing time, and I hope for Civ 5 to do the same. I know that some on this forum will disagree, but I can be very forgiving when it comes to game balance and so forth - I just want a fun game that has some variety and manages to "tell a decent story" (i.e. keep me guessing what will happen next). Will Civ 5 deliver?

Thanks in advance!

 

[JLoZeppeli]

It's a good game if you take it like a generic war and management strategy game and not as a sequel of Civ.

It's a big disappointment if you think of it like the successor of Civ IV... It's more like its bastard son... To me better buy is EU III....

 

[WimpyTheWarrior]

I agree with JLoZeppeli; it is a very different game than Civ4 and many Civ4 fanatics are not impressed with Civ5. As you're on a student budget you're right to be cautious, and the demo would be a great place to start. I don't know if the demo has been updated to 1.0.135; the latest patch which fixed a lot of exploits. Buying Civ5 will be risky; how risk-adverse are you?

"tell a decent story"
Interesting choice of words. I have not found the epic story in Civ5 that I enjoyed in Civ4. If you LOVE building lots of buildings in very large empires and researching lots of techs then you will probably not like Civ5. Most of the dissapointment in Civ5 seems to come from mega-builders.

The combat system is MUCH better than the "my stack is bigger than your stack" of Civ4. If you enjoy wargames or RTS strategy games than you'll like that aspect of Civ5.

If you love discovering new lands then Civ5 has these Natural Wonders that are pretty cool. I feel like Dr. Livingston or Sven Hedrin when I discover a new natural wonder. Admittedly some were added in the 1.0.135 patch that seem weird. Read about the Fountain of Youth for example.

The Policies element adds an interesting twist compared from Civ4 Civics. I like that.

Religion and espionage are removed from Civ5 so if you liked them consider how you would like the game without them.

There is a lot about the City States that I don't understand, but that is apparently a material part of the Civ5 experience. If I understood them more I would probably enjoy Civ5 more. They seem very basic and simplistic in their behaviour.

Overall for my tastes I prefer building large empires on gigantic maps with lots of buildings, researching lots of techs, and discovering new religions, so I've returned to Civ4 with the Rom/AND/PreH modpack. I keep my Civ5 updated and it will replace Rise of Nations when I want a light game and a break from building another courthouse in my 40th city.

 

[turingmachine]

As a sequel to Civ IV: BTS... disappointing.
As a sequel to Civ: Rev... Great!

 

[HorribleHarald]

Better to have "my stack is bigger than your stack" than battle system that AI can't handle. This is number 1 thing that civ 5 go wrong and it's not funny at all.

 

[fed1943]

To someone who knows BTS:
Polices are like a 2nd research tree that gives achievments.
City States are like Corporations that come earlier, are cheaper and less powerful.

Before last patch it was a weak Civ game. Now it became better.

 

[snoochems]

I just can't recommend Civ 5.

After two big patches, the game is just still broken. And even if they do properly balance the game, and make the AI do sensible things via patches, I really don't think they can fix the game, as the core design is flawed.

There isn't much depth to the game really. And it gets boring quickly. I get the feeling a lot of the bad design decisions where due to trying to counteract things like run away civs, and ICS. But instead, they've just made it worse, and the changes have been very counter-productive. ICS is still the best choice, and run away civs are still a major issue for late game boredom. They only "fixed" this by making cities heaps stronger, which then makes the early game a snorefest.

Then there is the "streamlining". aka, the dumbing down. Think of BTS with only 25% of the things to do.

And then there is 1UPT... a good idea, but it make moving units around very very painful...

I would at the very least wait for an expansion pack before bothering.

Trust me, Firaxis doens't deserve your money for this abomination.

 

[kenoyer130]

I stayed away from Civ5 until this latest patch and am now having fun.

I do think before this patch the game was not worth it. I've noticed ALOT of the people now on the forums are obsessed with Civ 5 not being a glorified Civ 4 mod or confuse having lots of things with good game design. I personally played BTS with vassel states and random events off. I also found espionage and corporations poorly implented and confusing.

There is also the usual group of people who didn't get enough love from mommy as a child and now hang out on the forums just to pour as much negativity on everything as they can.

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There are still annoying performance issues and IA bugs that really drag the game down, so YMMV. The diplomacy graphics lag down my system which is utterly absurd. There is also a bug where the IA will offer you way too much, like enough to cripple its empire, after a minor loss. It really feels like Firiaxis doesn't play test this game nearly enough due to the obvious imbalances etc.

Keep in mind with Civ 4 most players only played about half a game at which point it became obvious if you were going to win or lose. Civ 5 does seem much smoother over the ages. All the Civ games have been glorified war games, so I honestly don't see much difference there.

So in summary for me Civ 5 is starting the have that Civ feel. I would also recommend stayign away from the strategy forums for a while. Its kind of like reading spoilers for a movie to read how you can beat the game on diety from people who have already mastered the game.

 

[JohnnyW]

IMO if you were to buy a game now I would say don't get Civ5. Perhaps by February there will be another patch that gets the game more on track; I would suggest you revisit this forum and ask again closer to the time of your intended purcahse.

 

[SirWhale]

The game is very watered down.

 

[whb]

The game feels fairly empty compared to Civ 4, and lacks the "just one more turn" syndrome. I bought it some time ago, but keep finding it doesn't hold my attention through a whole game.

 

[lschnarch]

I just want a fun game that has some variety and manages to "tell a decent story" (i.e. keep me guessing what will happen next). Will Civ 5 deliver?

Based on these statements, I have to recommend you not to buy the game.

The variety in the game seems to be very much limited to "who's going to attack me first?" and at least for me (and reading this forum, for quite some others too) the "story-telling part" is just non-existing.

People report the game to be very hardware-demaninding on lower systems. So, if you were in any way a fan of bigger maps, stay away. If you're satisfied with smaller maps, this may be different.

You were talking about having a restricted budget. Frankly, in this case the risk is just too high that you might not really enjoy that game.
Your money may be better invested in some other game.

 

[Bad Brett]

Civ V is a tactical war game, where you win by taking advantage of how stupid the AI is. There's very little story going on and almost no empire building at all.

I realise that many people enjoy the game, but it's just not Civilization anymore.

Based on what you wrote, I'd say: Don't buy the game. Spend your money on something else.

 

[HorribleHarald]

It's just a wargame with some civ elements and only purpose is raze raze raze and get settler there as quick as possible before someone else gets there. But if you like that kind of wargames then perhaps it's for you. I like more empire building and managing.

 

[grdolph]

To OP: you don't buy a house, you only buy a game and you certainly must get CiV5 and Civ6 and Civ7, etc., as this series is one of the 2 best games ever made (the other is IL-2 series).

There will be things that you will like and others you won't, so what?
It's only a 30 euros "investment"!

Go get it and come back for some serious talking

 

[Kerosene31]

It is pointless to argue where Civ V is now. The question is where will it be after many more patches and expansions. It tool a looooooong time for Civ 4 to get to where it is today with countless patches and expansions. I remember I never even was a fan of Civ 4 until BTS came out.

The best way to describe Civ V is that you're paying to beta test the game. (I don't mean that in a negative way). If you are looking for a polished, complete game, look elsewhere. If you want to get in on the ground floor of a game that is likely to see many more patches and expansions, jump on and enjoy the ride.

Plus, the best way to make a decision is to read the full manual. You can download it off the official site. It doesn't take too long to read and will tell you everything which is in the game. Anything not mentioned is not in the game.

 

[lschnarch]

It is pointless to argue where Civ V is now. The question is where will it be after many more patches and expansions.

Which makes the decision very easy: wait until that game has got more patches and expansions.
Don't buy it now.

 

[SuperJay]

Disclaimer: I am not currently a big fan of Civ5; I've not given up hope yet and I don't hate it at all, I'm just disappointed in it as it stands currently, because it's pretty boring for me. So there's my own personal bias.

For you, Monsterfurby... it's a tough call, given what you've shared so far. If you loathe micromanagement, some aspects of Civ5 will likely appeal to you, as a good portion of it has been streamlined. However, some (IMO) unnecessary micromanagement has cropped up in places you wouldn't expect it (unit movement is a big one; the downside of one unit per tile). You don't sound like a player who is hung up on layers upon layers of complexity, so Civ5 might appeal to you in that regard as well.

What really caught my eye in your post was "a fun game with some variety that manages to tell a good story." That, I think, is something that's sorely lacking in Civ5 currently... a few of us have talked about missing the immersion, the stories, and the "epic journey" feel of previous Civ games, and that sounds like something you might miss too. I haven't felt like I was "building an empire to stand the test of time," because it's hard to forget you're playing a game. As Zydor mentioned recently, it feels more like "exterminate the rest of mankind to win the game" rather than building an empire to stand the test of time.

This post in another thread caught my eye, too; this player talks a bit about the lacking "story" as well. (He wrote more, but I've excerpted the part that's relevant to this discussion.)

Finally I played on a Pangea (Large, 10 other AIs) and had a good game going until about 1400 AD, at which point I realized I had played countless turns and never ever felt like there was a story developing in the game. There was nothing difficult, there was nothing noteworthy, there was nothing interesting. I spent all that time hoping that when THAT building finished, my civ could flourish and prosper. It never did.

All I ever feel like I'm doing in this game is barely treading water, going nowhere. Again, game broken by the way they 'changed' (i.e., ruined) resources. It pretty much doesn't matter what improvements I build on tiles or in cities, my nation is always going to suffer and starve and suck and take forever to get anything completed.

All that said, I don't want to discourage you from playing at all; if you can download the free demo, try that first. Just be careful about drawing too many conclusions from that first 100 turns with some shiny new units. (I enjoyed the demo myself, and actually liked the game for the first few weeks before getting bored - which is a first for any Civ game, for me.)

 

[Dralix]

Agree with SuperJay about trying the demo. Also, I would say that you should try to stay away from the over the top passionate reviews and recommendations, whether positive or negative. In the end, no one really knows if you'll like it except you. I think you're best served by finding objective information about the game, and then deciding for yourself whether you think it's for you.

 

[Zyxpsilon]

As a fair investment (considering its current state & design pros/cons) to an everchanging loop of better (or even risky, worst...) stuff to come, i'd say probably yes -- if only to witness how such gameplay fundamentals/features (Hexes, 1upT, etc) should introduce you to a somehow refreshing concept.
The whole Buy/Wait/Skip decision is still a matter of Want/Need... while seriously evaluating how much consumer freedom your wallet has.
Taken into some perspective, i currently have no regrets - at all. Maybe you will too.