Conquest #1: Mesopotamia and the Hittites

[Berrern]

Hi, I tried the Mesopotamia Conquest yesterday for the first time, and picked the Hittites. I noticed that their UU (3-man Chariot) is rather strong (3/2/2 compared to the Chariots 2/1/2).

Now here's what I find very strange:
To get the 3-man Chariot though, I had to first research The Wheel, and then Chariotism. However, I noticed that if I researched The Wheel, and then Horseback Riding (instead of Chariotism), I get the Horseman unit - which of course is available to evey civilization. When I checked this unit out, it has exactly the same stats as the Hittite 3-man Chariot (3/2/2)!!
Isn't this rather stupid? What's the point of researching Chariotism (which is a dead-end tech, not required to progress to the next age) when all it gives you are the 3-man Chariot, which you can get (a similar unit, anyway) with Horseback Riding - which is NOT a dead-end tech?

I found this rather weird and unlogical...

There's one plus about this though; I've only built one 3-man Chariot, and for the rest I've just built Horsemen. This way, I can delay the use of my 3-man Chariot until the appropriate time for my Golden Age

 

[player1 fanatic]

They should've been 5 shields cheaper.

 

[Kiech]

That conquest is kinda kooky. They really shouldn't have messed with all of the unit stats.

 

[philippe]

maybe for GA triggering?

 

[Berrern]

maybe for GA triggering?

Well then the creators must lack an enormous amount of creativity.. No point in making animations and graphics for a cloned unit, just to trigger a GA. UU's should have an advantage compared to their standard counterpart unit(s).

 

[Yoda Power]

This just shows that the people making the Conquests weren't qualified to do so.

 

[Kiech]

This just shows that the people making the Conquests weren't qualified to do so.

That's not necessarily true. There are a few really great ideas and conquests in that pack.

 

[Dell19]

Some scenarios are clearly better than others... The Mesopotamia scenario is a bit odd really as there is a lot of city building and not really much time for more than one or two wars...

 

[thestonesfan]

The 3-Man Chariot is 2-2-2, I believe.

 

[Dignitas]

The 3-Man Chariot is 2-2-2, I believe.

That's in the Epic game. They are talking about the specific Mesopotamia Conquests Three Man Chariot.

 

[Sir Len Taft]

The 3-Man Chariot is 2-2-2, I believe.

In the Epic Game, yes, this is in the Mesopotamian Conquest.

 

[Yoda Power]

That's not necessarily true. There are a few really great ideas and conquests in that pack.

Care to tell me what some of these really great ideas and conquests are?

 

[Berrern]

Thanks for the replies.

In the end I aborted this Conquest, cause it's really flawed in my opinion.
First of all, the messing with unit stats really confused me, and my UU annoys me to hell.
Also, I can't really see the point of making such a huge map, when you don't even have time to road up all your cities before the game ends.

When the last tech was discovered, and the last wonder building initiated, I had about 25 cities, 9 Spearmen (!!), 3 Horsemen and a 3-man Chariot. 4-6 cities still aren't even roaded up.
I can't understand the need for such a Huge map - hell, the land grab phase isn't even over and I haven't seen one war!

Btw, this is on Monarch.

Gonna try the next Conquest today, I really hope it's better designed and developed

 

[warpstorm]

Try that scenario from a central power. The Pheonician and Egyptian versions are quite fun.

 

[CyberChrist]

Mesopotamia conquest was boringly easy - forget about wars and focus on researching and getting those wonders build.

 

[Dell19]

I guess it depends which civ you pick... I ended up picking the Greek civ which turned into a wonder building game since there was never a need for war...

 

[amtrick]

I've played it a couple of times and I think it is okay...but certainly not the best of the bunch. You do have to remember that the Conquests don't all appeal to every style of gameplay. This one is for Builders, just like RoR and Middle Ages (to name two) are made for warmongers. I've always been somewhere in between and found the need to alter my preferred style to meet the requirements of the scenario was part of the challenge (and the learning about the game).

I do, however, share in the critique of the Hittite UU ... not very well thought out.

 

[Zandrew]

I've played this scenario the most because it's so quick. I've read of people finishing it in just 2 hours. It takes me about 8, while Sengoku takes about 40. I've tried every civ., but the first was as the Hittites because they're the only ones that are militaristic. Because of the victory point scoring I figured there'd be a lot of fighting for points. You do get a lot of points for wonders, but you still get more from conquests, and it's not too hard to get everyone fighting. I noticed that the game goes a lot quicker at higher levels because the AIs can build their wonders faster, so I've mostly been playing at regent level to draw it out more. I've also read of people moding the game to allow more turns and/or turn off the wonder victory condition.

I agree with Amtrick that it's a scenario designed to make you re-think your strategies to suit the conditions.

 

[Kiech]

Care to tell me what some of these really great ideas and conquests are?

Don't be such a narcacist!

 

[Masquerouge]

Thanks for the replies.

In the end I aborted this Conquest, cause it's really flawed in my opinion.
First of all, the messing with unit stats really confused me, and my UU annoys me to hell.
Also, I can't really see the point of making such a huge map, when you don't even have time to road up all your cities before the game ends.

When the last tech was discovered, and the last wonder building initiated, I had about 25 cities, 9 Spearmen (!!), 3 Horsemen and a 3-man Chariot. 4-6 cities still aren't even roaded up.
I can't understand the need for such a Huge map - hell, the land grab phase isn't even over and I haven't seen one war!

Btw, this is on Monarch.

Gonna try the next Conquest today, I really hope it's better designed and developed

Well, first of all, is the 3-man chariot the same cost as the horseman ? I'm not sure if it is. If the three-man chariot is cheaper, then voila, here's the UU advantage.

Then this Conquest is NOT about warmongering or expanding. It's about building wonders. It says so in the introduction : the game stops when all 7 wonders are built. So why do you focus on expansion ?

Conquest are scenarii ; they are not simply "the main game, but in a different time span". Each offer a different challenge ; some require you to play in a builder's style (Mesopotamia), other are for pure warmongers (Rise of Rome, Fall of Rome, Napoleon), other are for diplomats (Sengoku, in a way.. Well, in my way at least )

So the units, the techs, the resources are all different, requiring that you ADAPT your gameplay to the specific situation. I think that's why these conquest are great ; they force you to try different things !