Controlling Puppets

[Athelstan]

It looks to me like the only control I have over puppets is through tile improvements. I don't want my puppet to get too large and become a happiness-sponge, or a money-pit by its going on a building spree. I'm thinking of pillaging all of the farms to keep its growth to a minimum, and pillaging any mines to slow production. I'll replace them with trading posts to increase the money-flow. I can always rebuild the farm or mine if I feel that I am able to absorb the extra growth. Does this seem like a good idea?

Two other questions:
Is there any benefit to connecting the puppet to my trade network?
Are improved resources in my puppet's city limit available to me for use or trade?

 

[SK138]

I'm not entirely sure but I believe you get everything the puppet city has except control of production. If it would decide to build a military unit, that would transfer to your control. Any money or science it makes it yours and so by creating a trade route with it, you would increase this.

I think the only differences with a puppet city is you won't take the happiness hit and you can't choose what it produces.

 

[Athelstan]

If it would decide to build a military unit, that would transfer to your control.

The manual says that puppets do not product units or wonders. I guess I'm just curious on how deeply a puppet is integrated into my civilization, as this would affect my game strategy. I really would like more information on how a puppet affects me and how I affect it.

 

[kaltorak]

I can't clarify your doubts, since Im at work right now. But I also think they provide everything but access to the city screen. So anything you would do in that screen, chosing production, workers and specialists, you can't. But besides that it's really like a city of yours. It even has your cultural borders, so it looks totally like a normal city which you can't open the city menu.

I am not 100% sure, because I've only had time to make one. If it is as I say though, its very cool

 

[Athelstan]

Thanks for your reply, Kaltorak. I agree that it would be cool if puppets are as you say. My only concern then would be if there are any Wonders (National or World) that require a specific building in every city. If a puppet is just like one of my cities, does it need to have the requisite building also? There's no way to check or to force its construction.

 

[BwdYeti]

Puppet states don't count toward the national wonder requirements (Library in every town, etc), just the ones you control do.

 

[Ahriman]

I still haven't checked whether puppets actually increase your social policy costs, can anyone confirm?

 

[273C]

My puppet made me a pikeman so I think they can make units. I even already put a Knight inside it to garrison so its not like it was undefended.

 

[kingcharlesxii]

I still haven't checked whether puppets actually increase your social policy costs, can anyone confirm?

They do not, which is a big advantage.

 

[Zhahz]

They don't ramp up your SP costs. But if you're going with a small empire for a cultural win, their building maint costs can really hurt.

They don't build wonders and they don't build units (but they will build all the military production/xp buildings).

They do build tons of (high maint) buildings they don't need which can really hurt your economy.

Connecting them to your capital does give you a trade route (and since they don't build units the roads are helpful for defending them).

I do think turning all their tiles into trading posts to hinder their growth and production is a great idea, in hopes of them producing some gold and to slow down their building spree.

I'm pretty sure a big reason my economy has been a wreck in my first 2 games was puppets building high maint buildings. I didn't think about "tile management theory" for them til after my most recent game.

 

[NDawn]

It's a shame we can't set governors (like in a player controlled city screen) to focus on a particular area or have a social policy that unlocks that ability.
That way you could have some control, after all as a puppet state you'll be deciding who is in charge.

 

[Celevin]

I still haven't checked whether puppets actually increase your social policy costs, can anyone confirm?

They don't, which makes them kind of overpowered since they can grant you culture. I'm actually considering a one-city empire with just puppets and city states.

If they don't increase culture costs, they should NOT be able to grant you culture. It's like if they were able to give you gold, but didn't give you maintenance.


Just build a whole bunch of trading posts around them, and 80-90% of the time they'll do what you want.

 

[kaltorak]

After testing yesterday I can confirm they are exactly as normal cities except for this:

-(bad)You can't chose production. (it's a governor that doesn't build wonders or units)
-(good)They don't generate ocupation unhappiness
-(good)They don't count as city for lowering your culture
-(good)You don't need buildings there as wonder prerequisite

Besides that, everything is the same: culture borders, happiness, trade routes, maintenance cost, resources.... and so on

It's great, the only bad thing about it is that they build military buildings, which makes no sense since they won't produce units. I'm sure this will be fixed.

 

[dannythefool]

They do build tons of (high maint) buildings they don't need which can really hurt your economy.

I think this is actually a very good trade-off. Effectively, you can use your economy to counter unhappiness. Or the other way around. Although they should not build buildings they can't use.