Let's talk about pillaging

[MutilationWave]

I've recently finished exploration with my first time as Bulgaria. I didn't have a good age due to city connection bug, an extremely competent Napoleon who has hated me since the beginning of antiquity, and one particularly big, stupid mistake I made.

So I barely got to use their pillaging bonuses. By late age I was focused on burning Napoleon's empire to the ground and I honestly forgot about the zero movement pillaging ability.

Now, with Great Britain (I really wish I'd gone with Bugunda) I entered modern with eight full naval commanders and nine full regular commanders. I set my sights on Mrs 2000 culture and science per turn, Trung Trac.

It has been a pillaging extravaganza with the traditions from Bulgaria. I've been cranking out wonders early in the age when earlier I could only get one in the first two ages combined.

My problem is I'm pillaging a lot with my 32 Revenges, but doing coastal pillaging doesn't give a preview of what you get, unlike pillaging on your current tile, and will annoyingly autocomplete if there's only one option, which is sometimes hard for me to see. For example, pillaging a bridge gets me 180 gold and 90 production in every city. But pillaging a port, which I thought would be the same if not better, is actually the same as pillaging a farm- 30 gold 30 health which is also bugged and not granting the 15 or 30 production it should to all cities.

So I searched on here and online for about half an hour and I can't find a list of what improvements or buildings are good pillage targets and which just give the basic 30 gold/health (which is also bugged in another way, it should be 50% higher from one of the traditions).

Can we collaborate and make a list for everyone's benefit?

 

[MutilationWave]

Here's some info as I played late into the night again.

I was wrong about the port not working for Bulgaria's traditions. What I must have done is hit the first one with coastal raid. Coastal raid never works for the tradition ability. You must use the regular pillage button while on the same hex as what you want to pillage.

So far what I've seen that works, in order of low to high value-

-Fishing Quay
-Guild Hall
-Bridges
-University
-Port

Port is absolutely massive, with both traditions slotted you will get over 250 production in every city. It's a really fun way to play.

 

[Morgawr]

I've recently finished exploration with my first time as Bulgaria. I didn't have a good age due to city connection bug, an extremely competent Napoleon who has hated me since the beginning of antiquity, and one particularly big, stupid mistake I made.

So I barely got to use their pillaging bonuses. By late age I was focused on burning Napoleon's empire to the ground and I honestly forgot about the zero movement pillaging ability.

Now, with Great Britain (I really wish I'd gone with Bugunda) I entered modern with eight full naval commanders and nine full regular commanders. I set my sights on Mrs 2000 culture and science per turn, Trung Trac.

It has been a pillaging extravaganza with the traditions from Bulgaria. I've been cranking out wonders early in the age when earlier I could only get one in the first two ages combined.

My problem is I'm pillaging a lot with my 32 Revenges, but doing coastal pillaging doesn't give a preview of what you get, unlike pillaging on your current tile, and will annoyingly autocomplete if there's only one option, which is sometimes hard for me to see. For example, pillaging a bridge gets me 180 gold and 90 production in every city. But pillaging a port, which I thought would be the same if not better, is actually the same as pillaging a farm- 30 gold 30 health which is also bugged and not granting the 15 or 30 production it should to all cities.

So I searched on here and online for about half an hour and I can't find a list of what improvements or buildings are good pillage targets and which just give the basic 30 gold/health (which is also bugged in another way, it should be 50% higher from one of the traditions).

Can we collaborate and make a list for everyone's benefit?

It’s your lucky day, so happens I had been compiling this as I go, here are my raw notes.

Pillage value is fixed by what age it belongs to, not when you pillage it , eg quay always 40 gold pillage in ANT or EXP or MOD

(I don’t have MOD pillage values as I had zero wars in that age, skip war culture win T50-60)

Some UI give NOTHING , not pillagable like baray, I’m interested if there are more like that. (Which sucks for the pillager of course but I’d like to know before hand next time)

Also another thing I found is that uniques , even UB only heal regardless of type. Haven’t tested every single UB tho

Wasn’t sure if coastal raid gold increased by age or always 30g as in ant?

Plunder Land trade route	40/60/?g
Plunder Sea trade route	120/180/?g
Coastal raid	30g + heal
Pillage:
Food/gold buildings	40/120/? Gold
Hap/cult buildings	40/80/? Cul
Mil/prod/sci buildings	40/80/? Sci
Rural / unique building UB / unique improvement UI	Heal
Baray	Nothing

 

[MutilationWave]

Wow thank you. I can't provide proper numbers because I have several different modifiers to my pillaging on this game. For instance a port gives me 540 gold and 270 production in all cities, and that's before the naval commander ability. I can say that coastal raid and rural improvements are always 30g plus health regardless of age. Right now in modern giving 45 health. They do not seem to be affected by pillaging modifiers such as the naval commander ability or the Bulgarian traditions.

I have noticed the Siamese UB is giving a large amount of culture. Not sure on other UB, I was fighting for my life in my antiquity and exploration wars, with no time to pillage except occasionally for health. Only civ I've warred with in modern is Siam. I just realized these could be from one of Trung's earlier civs. I will update this post.

 

[Morgawr]

Cool can update this as I go, have on google sheets.

I hear you, havent't tried Bulgaria yet but I had to dig into this stuff when I built the Mausoleum in one game which doubles all these values. Had a blast pillaging but some unexpected surprises too (e.g. some UB that looked so nice and juicy only gave healing! And nothing from baray was weird my first encounter).

This should get on the wiki if not there

 

[MutilationWave]

I'm getting a lot of good data, some mysterious interactions. I'll type it up nicely this evening. Thanks so much for working on this.

 

[MutilationWave]

I'm eventually going to do an ultimate pillage playthrough and write a proper guide to post here. I'm bored of pillaging though so here's what I have so far. I'm going to play something new next.

With Bulgaria's traditions alone, pillaging was so powerful in Modern it was insane. I picked Great Britain, next time will be Bugunda. If someone can build the Mausoleum of Theodoric in antiquity, then get Bulgarian traditions it will be completely broken. Add 50% commander promotion for more fun. Combine that with Bugunda's 100% bonus and it will end up getting nerfed so fast. This is probably the best combo in the game. I'm talking multiple techs and civics in a turn, multiple buildings in every city in a turn, etc. You would end up with +250% to pillaging, with half that going to your cities as production.

With Britain, I was able to crank out every wonder except the Taj Mahal in Modern (because I didn't want it) by pillaging. I gave most of my army and naval commanders the +50% pillaging promotion and extended range promotion. You can pillage your way to victory as well through Manhattan Project / Op Ivy for military victory, archaeologists and World's Fair for culture victory, Rail Stations and Factories for economic victory, and the Projects and launch pad for Science victory. I won on turn 70 while slowly gathering this pillaging data I'm about to present. I could have gone much faster. And that was only with the 50% increase to pillaging and pillaging to production from Bulgaria tradition policies plus commander bonus. Oh and 32 Revenge battleships.

@Morgawr take a look at this. I was trying to embed it but I'm not that good at this forum yet. (Figured it out)

Anyway - this table.

Here's an editable excel document.

So Ports in particular give 360 gold. So does the French Salon, the only other building I saw that high. The way the bonuses work is they add either 50% or 100% (up to 250%) of the original number to itself. So the way I was playing that was +100%. That gives me 720 gold and 360 production in every city for every port I pillage. I just realized I didn't take the chart high enough. With everything you'd be getting 250%. So one port would give you 1260 gold and 730 production in all cities. Wonders in Modern run 1000-1400 hammers to put that in perspective. Even the World's Fair is only 3000 hammers.

You could pillage two ports and insta build a modern age wonder in every city you have, from scratch, on the same turn with production left over.

I have a lot more to write about pillaging. ****Very Important**** the Coastal Raid ability is not considered pillaging. It will always give 30 gold 30 health no matter what you use it on or what bonuses you get.

I just can't do more pillaging right now. Maybe someone wants to take this info and run with it. Whenever I get around to doing my ultimate pillage run, I'll gather more data including repair costs. I imagine it would be a good idea to play as Amina to guarantee Bugunda, because who wants to settle on lakes? Not this guy, that's for sure. To guarantee Bulgaria all you have to do is build three altars in antiquity.

So that leaves one choice. What civ should I play in antiquity? The main objective will be to complete the Mausoleum of Theodoric.

 

[Morgawr]

This is awesome thanks! The uniques are interesting, all custom.

So you’re tired of pilllaging and want something. new but also want to build mausoleum?

I am playing Bulgaria rn and very much enjoying pillaging my neighbors to completer ruin and negative income , knocked out of the game economically. So much fun I cannot give it up

 

[MutilationWave]

This is awesome thanks! The uniques are interesting, all custom.

So you’re tired of pilllaging and want something. new but also want to build mausoleum?

I am playing Bulgaria rn and very much enjoying pillaging my neighbors to completer ruin and negative income , knocked out of the game economically. So much fun I cannot give it up

You gotta go Bugunda if you can in modern. I really regret not doing it, it was unlocked.

I'm playing Tecumseh and Mississippians for the first time. I'm fighting a two front war since pretty much the beginning of antiquity against Augustus Rome to the south and Pachacuti Maya to the northwest. We're about to hit the crisis. I'm getting wrecked but I'm hitting back hard. I took Rome but Pacha just sent 10 chariots and cut well into my line of burning arrows I was about to attack with. I can afford to take one more city and I want to be his capital. Just like I did to Augustus who I'm still at war with.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to take peace deals when happiness crisis hits in 1-5 turns. I get it literally every time. They'll both give me another city, but I want to raze them off the planet.

I'm doing terrible by the way according to the game but I'm having a ton of fun.

Mausoleum is for my ultimate pillage game, I want to get up to 300% pillage rewards with half going to production in all cities. What civ would you take with Amina to get the Mausoleum? Unlocking Bulgaria is easy so no need to think about that.

Did you take the pillage promotion on your commanders?

If you feel like taking notes on pillage rewards that would be awesome. We can combine our work and put out the ultimate pillage guide together.

 

[tedhebert]

playing Bulgaria ATM, not overwhelmed to be honest... my 2 direct neighbors are Amina and Tubman...

Since I'm playing immortal and the map gave me mostly desert and plain tiles, I'm mostly playing a defensive game VS Amina and her +10 CS (+5 for diff level and+5 for zazzou most everywhere), so no pillaging.

And on the other side, Tubman has made almost only urban quarters in all her cities and installed walls in each and everyone of them, so I can't pillage much of anything

quite annoying TBH.

Those two I get almost every game I start and they're frankly annoying as hell. This time Tubman had 4 alliances before attacking me, and even the common we had as allied decided to go her way. grrrrr....

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

So, gave this 'pillaging tactic' a try.

Game's just starting the Exploration Age, but had a lot of fun with it in Antiquity this afternoon.

Playing Charlemagne-Greece in Antiquity, built 3 Altars so picked Bulgaria in Exploration.

With Charley M, you can either pick someone with a mounted UU, like Maurya or Khmer, and with his 2 Cav units per celebration load up with pachydermious goodness, or pick a Civ with good infantry/ranged units so the mass of late-Age cavalry is a Bonus indeed. With Greece, I ended up with two entire armies of Hoplites and archers and two armies of Horsemen which were neither bought nor built, all bonuses from celebrations.

Getting the Mausoleum of Theo is really not difficult, even though the AI seems to favor it also. It's only 3 Civics down the tree, the trick is to beeline for it you have to pass up things like Merchants and Pantheons for a bit. That said, a bunch of Chariots and then Horsemen rampaging through my neighbors' constructions was worth it. Got attacked by Fred the Barq, who was playing Rome and had a nasty stack of Legions from his cultural building, but they melted away before self-renewing Chariots and Hoplites. Took two cities away from him, then got forward settled by Amina with two settlements (as in, 4 tiles away, which meant both sites gave up half their potential territory, a situation that I firmly believe simply requires Rectification With Violence). Since both offending settlements were on the coast, introduced Amina to My Little Friends - 3 Quadriremes which wiped the (sea)floor with her amphibious reinforcements and then tore her settlements to bits almost before my Hoplites came into view.

Starting Exploration with 3 out of 4 Antiquity Legacy lines completed (missed Culture by 1 Wonder) and a solid base of Science and Culture (ony Nappy is slightly ahead of me in both, but he's an Ally) and, of course, about 8 Bolyars already in hand. I suspect Amina is going down the tubes shortly - she only has 3 cities left and her only potential ally is far off to the south (Ashoka). If Fred wants to attack me again he faces his two lost cities, both walled and backed up by two armies of infantry and archers and, of course, a new army of Bolyars appearing every 2 celebrations regardless of what else I'm building.

Looking forward to the Bolyar Horde raising the proverbial "Pillar of smoke by day, pillar of fire by night" this weekend. Whether the Pillaging Tactic is a game-winning one remains to be seen, but as posted, it's a lot of fun!

 

[MutilationWave]

So, gave this 'pillaging tactic' a try.

Game's just starting the Exploration Age, but had a lot of fun with it in Antiquity this afternoon.

Playing Charlemagne-Greece in Antiquity, built 3 Altars so picked Bulgaria in Exploration.

With Charley M, you can either pick someone with a mounted UU, like Maurya or Khmer, and with his 2 Cav units per celebration load up with pachydermious goodness, or pick a Civ with good infantry/ranged units so the mass of late-Age cavalry is a Bonus indeed. With Greece, I ended up with two entire armies of Hoplites and archers and two armies of Horsemen which were neither bought nor built, all bonuses from celebrations.

Getting the Mausoleum of Theo is really not difficult, even though the AI seems to favor it also. It's only 3 Civics down the tree, the trick is to beeline for it you have to pass up things like Merchants and Pantheons for a bit. That said, a bunch of Chariots and then Horsemen rampaging through my neighbors' constructions was worth it. Got attacked by Fred the Barq, who was playing Rome and had a nasty stack of Legions from his cultural building, but they melted away before self-renewing Chariots and Hoplites. Took two cities away from him, then got forward settled by Amina with two settlements (as in, 4 tiles away, which meant both sites gave up half their potential territory, a situation that I firmly believe simply requires Rectification With Violence). Since both offending settlements were on the coast, introduced Amina to My Little Friends - 3 Quadriremes which wiped the (sea)floor with her amphibious reinforcements and then tore her settlements to bits almost before my Hoplites came into view.

Starting Exploration with 3 out of 4 Antiquity Legacy lines completed (missed Culture by 1 Wonder) and a solid base of Science and Culture (ony Nappy is slightly ahead of me in both, but he's an Ally) and, of course, about 8 Bolyars already in hand. I suspect Amina is going down the tubes shortly - she only has 3 cities left and her only potential ally is far off to the south (Ashoka). If Fred wants to attack me again he faces his two lost cities, both walled and backed up by two armies of infantry and archers and, of course, a new army of Bolyars appearing every 2 celebrations regardless of what else I'm building.

Looking forward to the Bolyar Horde raising the proverbial "Pillar of smoke by day, pillar of fire by night" this weekend. Whether the Pillaging Tactic is a game-winning one remains to be seen, but as posted, it's a lot of fun!

Since you've got the wonder, get the Bulgarian traditions and the commander promotion. You'll be getting 200% pillaging yields, with half that going to each and every city as production. I highly recommend getting the maneuver promotion on commanders as well (I get it on every one anyway). Now you can enter a newly cracked quarter with a bolyar, which removes all remaining movement. Follow it in with a commander using 1 movement point, leaving you with 3. The second unit entering the quarter doesn't lose movement and it costs 3* movement to pillage, so you can begin pillaging right away. On the next turn you can pillage the second building with the commander, then have one movement left to set up your next pillage or attack.

Once you get to units with more than 3 movement it gets really fun. Your cities will produce like crazy, plus all the gold, culture, and science rolling in. Oh yeah, try not to mix up the "order everyone to pillage" and regular pillage buttons. They look exactly the same and I've done it several times even though they're in different spots.

* Units that have less than 3 max movement instead must be at full movement to pillage.

 

[MutilationWave]

playing Bulgaria ATM, not overwhelmed to be honest... my 2 direct neighbors are Amina and Tubman...

Since I'm playing immortal and the map gave me mostly desert and plain tiles, I'm mostly playing a defensive game VS Amina and her +10 CS (+5 for diff level and+5 for zazzou most everywhere), so no pillaging.

And on the other side, Tubman has made almost only urban quarters in all her cities and installed walls in each and everyone of them, so I can't pillage much of anything

quite annoying TBH.

Those two I get almost every game I start and they're frankly annoying as hell. This time Tubman had 4 alliances before attacking me, and even the common we had as allied decided to go her way. grrrrr....

If you can get through this age intact, pillaging will really shine in modern. You get to keep the Bulgarian traditions. Don't forget to get manuever and the pillage promotion on your commanders. If you go for six units per commander anyway, it's only one more promotion to get +50% pillaging.