Convert them ALL - A Byzantium Photojournal

[Minh Le]

Hello guys. Here is another photojournal of me. In this one, I aim to have some fun doing something kind of challenge, though might be useless. Hope you guys enjoy this .
Fisrt lets talk about rules:

Spoiler Rules :

• One city challenge
• No aggression (no workers stealing, no city destroying, no declaring war...
• Convert the world - I win when I completely convert all cities in the game, erase all other Religions in the game.

And somethings about what Im gonna do:

Spoiler Thought about Byzantium :

Byzantium is a very interesting Civ to play, very powerful, very well designed. One of the civs I like to play the most. Her UA enable her to always can found a religion, pick beliefs that already choosen and unlock one more addition belief, also cheaper faith cost for purchasing. Its a very strong UA. Religion serves a very important role in VP. Ensured a religion means you can go for much stronger/ non faith Pantheon and still get a Religion, you can found very late without losing beliefs you want to pick... But the most interesting part is the bonus belief. Its soooo strong. You can make devastating combo using this one bonus belief. You can have 2 founders/ enhancers while others can only have one, you can unlock powerful enhancer right when you found your religion. Its just too strong. Her UB and UU are OK. UB is good for faith and UU is a solid unit.

Spoiler Strategy :

After a few tries, I come up with an ultimate strategy in order to achieve my goal.

• Religion and Belief

Despite the fact that you can always found your religion, to be able to convert others, you need to found as fast as possible, one less religion is one less competitor for the converting race. I have only one city, so I pick those belief:

• • Pantheon: Goddess of Beauty - It gives the most and earliest faith since Im gonna go for very early wonders rush. The extra point to GA and GE is great help too.
  • Founder: Coucil of Elders - since im gonna spread a lot, this belief gives me tons of science AND production to race for very important wonders.
  • 1st Follower: Churches - it gives the most faith and pressure.
  • Bonus belief: Iconography - I dont have the culture to match my rapidly science progress, its ensure me those very important wonders.
  • 2nd follower: Mandir - Food to feed my beloved followers, also pressure.
  • Enhancer: Universalism - My missionary is now pseudo Prophet .
• Important Wonders

These Wonders are MUST GET. Failing to get one of them means Game Over. They are: Stonehenge, Great Library, Oracle, Hagia Sophia, Borobudur, Himeji Castle, Red Fort.

• Important Techs: Civil Service.
• Converting Strategy: Convert the non-found / India ASAP. Convert those near them. Leave your founding neighbour to last.

Spoiler Setting :

I play with Really advanced setup because I need to ban Spain and The Celt. These 2 are anti-convert so I cant do anything to them.
I hand pick some strong religious civs as compensate.

Spoiler My starting location :

Here is my starting location. Its a good one.

I will update later. Hope you guys enjoy this .

 

[Owlbebach]

Great Library...Red Fort

Whats so special in Library? I don't get it. Same for Red Fort

Founder: Coucil of Elders

Given my OCC experience with William - i think this is a mistake... I managed to build more Wonders than ever - without building Settlers you end up having nothing to build. Holy Law might be a better due to the amount of faith you get from it. Also Transcendence is great.

 

[Minh Le]

Whats so special in Library? I don't get it. Same for Red Fort

Given my OCC experience with William - i think this is a mistake... I managed to build more Wonders than ever - without building Settlers you end up having nothing to build. Holy Law might be a better due to the amount of faith you get from it. Also Transcendence is great.

Because the world hate me, so I need defense. All the civs I pick are very fast early teching, so If I miss Great Liabrary, I will miss all the later Wonders. Transcendence is good but it give me the ability to snipe one Wonders, while Elders gives me the ability to snipe multiple wonders, and the much needed early science boost.

 

[Stalker0]

Wow, I knew this was going to be a challenge, but a one city challenge too? Good luck, you will need every bit of it you can get

I don't know how you will keep spreading once the civs starts to inquisitor up, but I will stay tuned

 

[CrazyG]

These Wonders are MUST GET. Failing to get one of them means Game Over. They are: Stonehenge, Great Library, Oracle, Hagia Sophia, Borobudur, Himeji Castle, Red Fort.

• Important Techs: Civil Service.
• Converting Strategy: Convert the non-found / India ASAP. Convert those near them. Leave your founding neighbour to last.

I get why you want Stonehenge,Hagia Sophia, and Borobodur.
Great Library and Oracle seem like they are mostly just to help you get other wonders. Council of Elders + Iconography is a smart combination.
Himeji Castle is a useful wonder, defense can be really difficult with just one city. That 15% is relevant.

But here is where my confusion starts.
Game over if you miss Red Fort is a silly thing to say. I get the concept of wanting more defense, but look at that hammer cost. I'm unconvinced that wonder is ever worthwhile.
I'm clueless as to why you claim civil service is an important tech.

 

[YukiN]

Game over if you miss Red Fort is a silly thing to say. I get the concept of wanting more defense, but look at that hammer cost. I'm unconvinced that wonder is ever worthwhile.

Red Fort is a really nice defensive wonder if you can afford it. The free Arsenal + Great Engineer refunds the majority of your production and effectively also gives you 6 gpt for arsenal maintenance. The 4 tile range is also really good. I don't think you can afford to get your tiles pillaged with only one city, so stopping enemies at your borders becomes important. I would probably take Red Fort over Himeji if I only have one city to work with.

I agree that I'm not sure why Civil Service is more important than other techs though.

 

[amateurgamer88]

I'm curious about one of your settings. Does Transparent Diplomacy make the game easier? The fact that you know what the AIs think about you can really help you manage diplomacy and know when a war is coming, right?

Regardless, I'm very curious about this challenge. It's obvious you are going to abuse the UA of India to your advantage. However, I thought India can still find a religion even if you convert them over.

 

[suriv]

Because the world hate me, so I need defense. All the civs I pick are very fast early teching, so If I miss Great Liabrary, I will miss all the later Wonders. Transcendence is good but it give me the ability to snipe one Wonders, while Elders gives me the ability to snipe multiple wonders, and the much needed early science boost.

All the best with the challenge. I agree that India (and a very big and top ranked among AIs) is the vital cog in your plan... though I somehow believe you already achieved it in the past few days and posting it now

 

[Galbias]

This sounds like a pretty crazy challenge, with only one city against Deity AIs you're going to have difficulty not staying in constant war, let alone converting them.

I'm clueless as to why you claim civil service is an important tech.

Probably Open Borders, without it spreading Religion is going to be a lot more difficult. Only one of the Civs needs to have it though so it's not always necessary.

 

[Minh Le]

I get why you want Stonehenge,Hagia Sophia, and Borobodur.
Great Library and Oracle seem like they are mostly just to help you get other wonders. Council of Elders + Iconography is a smart combination.
Himeji Castle is a useful wonder, defense can be really difficult with just one city. That 15% is relevant.

But here is where my confusion starts.
Game over if you miss Red Fort is a silly thing to say. I get the concept of wanting more defense, but look at that hammer cost. I'm unconvinced that wonder is ever worthwhile.
I'm clueless as to why you claim civil service is an important tech.

Youre right. Library and Oracle are need to get the others. Red Fort is needed because of its unit supply. I cant defend with 4 units and being locked into war with multiple civs is very likely to happen. Civil service is for open border. Missionary in other civ territory doesnt lose strength if I have open border with that civ.

I'm curious about one of your settings. Does Transparent Diplomacy make the game easier? The fact that you know what the AIs think about you can really help you manage diplomacy and know when a war is coming, right?

Regardless, I'm very curious about this challenge. It's obvious you are going to abuse the UA of India to your advantage. However, I thought India can still find a religion even if you convert them over.

Diplomacy is very important. I cannot spread to one civ if Im at war with him. Also its will be much harder if I cant have Open Border. India will found, but Im gonna erase his religion.
Im fine with India not in the game, but if hes in, hes need to be convert soon. If you let him growth to large, you will end up needing about 9 or 10 missionaries for ONE of his city, and its not gonna work.

This sounds like a pretty crazy challenge, with only one city against Deity AIs you're going to have difficulty not staying in constant war, let alone converting them.



Probably Open Borders, without it spreading Religion is going to be a lot more difficult. Only one of the Civs needs to have it though so it's not always necessary.

Yes Its Open Border. Only one have it is enough so Im gonna have it first to execute my plan as soon as possible. Its a race, a crazy one.

 

[chicorbeef]

I still don't understand how it's possible to convert India...I mean, they will surely found, and even if you convert all their cities, a Prophet can just pop up and undo all your work, right?

I may be mistaken, I will have to see. Either way this sounds like a blast!

 

[Minh Le]

I still don't understand how it's possible to convert India...I mean, they will surely found, and even if you convert all their cities, a Prophet can just pop up and undo all your work, right?

I may be mistaken, I will have to see. Either way this sounds like a blast!

Prophet wont spawn anymore start in industrial. The trick is let him enhance, then pick buildings for him to purchase, so there wont be more prophet to spawn until industrial.

All the best with the challenge. I agree that India (and a very big and top ranked among AIs) is the vital cog in your plan... though I somehow believe you already achieved it in the past few days and posting it now

Haha you got me. I success on my 3rd try. India is more of a challenge than a pawn in my plan. If he grow large enough, his religion will be almost invulrable to Missionaries (in my previous India game, there is time when I dont care about Korea spread at all because he just cannot flip my religion no matter how many missionaries he send). I will be forced to use prophets on him.

 

[Minh Le]

Here's the first part of the Journal.

Spoiler Capital :

I decided to spend one turn to move and settle here. I have 3 workable coffee and the jungle choped will speed up my Monument. Everyturn counts in the early game. Im gonna buy the whale ASAP when I have enough money. Pottery right away because Im gonna go for Stonehenge. Stonehenge is not hard to get. I can get it in 90% of my games if I rush to it.

Spoiler My neighbour :

Egypt is really close. I can send my trade routes to him very soon.

Spoiler Pottery finished :

Pottery finished, I build the Stonehenge right away. I had Monument and about 2 or 3 turns of productions in Shrine. I tech straight to Writing because of the Great Library. While Stonehenge is easy, Great Library is a very hard to get Wonder. All the AIs i pick are very fast early teching ones, and AI love to build Great Library. In a normal game, Im fine without Great Library, Its not that important in a normal game. Go for Hanging Garden is much safer and much stronger in the long run. But in this game, I must rush to Theology as soon as possible, just soon is not enough, it must be very quick, because I need time to build 2 Wonders there too, and I cant afford to lose either of them.

Spoiler Pick Tradition :

Tradition is obvious. I have only one city . 2 extra citizens at the opener speed up my Stonehenge quite a bit.

Spoiler Got Stonehenge :

I got Stonehenge on turn 46, not terribly fast but its enough for now. And I pick Beauty. Its gives me 4 faiths right away, and 3 points to Engineer and Artist are very helpful.

Spoiler Buying a worker :

One turn left to finish calendar, so I buy a worker to improve the Coffee, I can sell it for a bit of money, every bit of anything is great help. William is in the game. I kept my path finder close to defend my capital from barbs, however, Egypt cleared the barbs camp near me, so I think Im safe to send him for more exploration.

Spoiler Next policy :

Sovereignty is obvious too.

Spoiler This is how fast Deity AI is :

William is the first who advanced to classical, while Im still researching Trapping , AND he go into classic by Writing. All other AI follow him just a few turns after. But he still just has 2 policies, and Great Library requires 4 policies to be built, so I still have a chance.

Spoiler Modest defense :

I built an archer for defense, he's gonna be my only source of defense for a while

 

[Minh Le]

Spoiler Next policy :

Its the only choice

Spoiler Caraval :

I build a caraval right after Trade. The caraval at this time gives me a lot of science. Trade route to Egypt gives me 6 science, which is 60% of my current science output .

Spoiler Writing is done :

Writing is done, but Im still one policy short on the Great Library (and I will always short on Policies for Wonders all game, so Iconography is a must). William has his 4th policies a few turns before so its very difficult now. I have my first Artist and Engineer. I save the Engineer for Great Library, the Artirst becomes great work, each great work give me 1 faith now, and 2 faith after Church, so I make as much great works as possible.

Spoiler Tech path :

Im gonna pick Sailing with Great Library, then go straigh to Philosophy for Oracle. Great Library and Oracle are the Science boost I need to rush to Theology. I will miss Hagia Sophia or Borobudur or both if I dont get to Theology fast enough. That's just how fast Deity AI is. Normally you almost cannot race the AI for Medieval Wonders at all, unless you have very clear advantage in the very beginning, or it's something guaranteed (Sankore while youre the only Tradition civ...)

Spoiler 1st religion :

Im not very surprised. His UB gives tons of faith very early. Its still a long time before I get my religion. 3 turn lefts on the next policy for Great Library.

Spoiler YES :

The Great Library is still there. Pop the Great Engineer for it right away. Im sure I will not get it if I build it normally. Im sure. The policy, the Great Library, and the Scientist slot doubled my science output.

Spoiler One more trade route :

I unlock Sailing as planned. I have one more trade route, so caraval right away. I build caraval instead of cargo ship because its cheaper, and all I need now is the science.

Spoiler 2nd religion :

Not surprise at all.

Spoiler Oracle :

This time I got the tech first, but I still short on policy. 29 turns is too long, I cant afford waiting that long, and this time I wont have an engineer to pop. I build the Scrivener's Office sine the diplomat slot gives some culture.

 

[Minh Le]

Spoiler Going for Theology :

Going straight to it. The tech gives me 2 very important wonders which I must get.

Spoiler 4th religion :

This actually the 4th religion, the 3rd was founded by The Inca in the previous turn, but I forgot to take picture. Only one religion left to be founded.

Spoiler The last religion :

William got it, 2 turns before me .... I guess It cant be helped. I can still found, but there will be one more religion I need to erase. Oh and you can notice the big jump in my culture output. Its because Egypt has more policies than me now, so my trade routes to him yield Culture now. One more turn and I can build the Oracle, and it will be speed up with Coucil of Elders when I found my religion.

Spoiler Pick policy and found religion :

I pick my policy, build the Oracle ASAP and found my religion in the next turn. Everything go as planned.

Spoiler First target :

Egypt is my first target, he doesnt have a religion, so spreading my religion to him will give possitive diplo. The Maya is already spreading. I want to be friend with Egypt. I buy the Church first then start the Missionary spam. My worker will build roads to Egypt too.

Spoiler Im not behind :

Im just 2 techs behind the leader. Im gonna get ahead very soon.

Spoiler Oracle :

I got the Oracle, It gives me Theology right away, and I queue up the Hagia Sophia and Borobudur right away. I will get them very fast thanks to Coucil of Elders.

Spoiler Next tech :

I go for Civil service right away, Im now ahead in tech and I need Open Borders ASAP. Having Open Borders means my Missionaries will not lose strength in other civs territory. And its very important.

That's it for today. Im almost done with my preparation, the fun will begin in next part .

 

[CrazyG]

I enjoyed this, you clearly know what you are doing. Building the Hagia Sophia without the technology to chop down a tree is rather amusing. BTW, those trade units are caravans. A caravel is the ship unlocked at compass.

 

[Minh Le]

I enjoyed this, you clearly know what you are doing. Building the Hagia Sophia without the technology to chop down a tree is rather amusing. BTW, those trade units are caravans. A caravel is the ship unlocked at compass.

Haha thanks. My English is very bad, I know I made many mistakes. I learned it mostly from games and Comics ....
I just got back from work, and I have some time for another part.
Let's talk a little bit more about the early game, which I can say I safely passed it by now. The early game looks rather simple, but in fact its very intense. I've never be able to build Hagia Sophia or Borobudur at all in my previous games, not to mention building BOTH. Part of the reason is Theology is not a very important tech, another reason is AI always beat me to it due to lacking policy requirement. Hagia requires 6, Boro requires 7, which is very hard to get at that time unless I have very strong culture start, and even if I have a very strong Culture start, I can mostly have one of them. Byzantium is really shine here. Only with Byzantium I can have Iconography that soon, and so I can focus on Science/Production to rush these 2. I was the first to enter Medieval while AI enter Classics like 20 turns before me. It was Great Library and Oracle which give me that huge jump. Now Coucil of Elders/Iconography will carry me through the rest of the game as Im gonna show now.

Spoiler The first to reform :

Im not surprise, again. This guy always go crazy spreading his religion. Normally it will end up him being hated and ganged by his neighbours, but it can be extremely dangerous when he pick Coucil of Elders and start on a continent with him being the only one who found. Ive had game where Ethiopia advance to Industrial when everyone elses still in Medieval .

Spoiler What Im gonna do with my Great People :

Great Scientist/Engineer/Merchant will be used to get improvement, because I will pick Knowledge Through Devotion as my Reform and each Great Improvement will provide me extra faith. All Great Writer/Artist/Musician will be great works because I have 2 faith from them. I need as much faith as possible.

Spoiler Friendship :

One critical part of this game is maintaining friendship with the civ who I havent spread to. Erasing their religion will make them extra mad, but I dont care after that. I have to avoid having war with the civ I havent spread to at all cost, because I cannot spread while at war, and its much harder without Open Borders.

Spoiler Hagia Sophia :

Hagia Sophia is done on turn 165, Epic Speed. Its turn 110 on Standard. How often you can get it this fast ? I use the Prophet to enhance, and I grab Mandirs and Universalism. Universalism is much better than Dioceses if you are about to fight other religions. I auto buy Missionary and send them to Egypt.

Spoiler Got Civil Service :

Civil Service is done on turn 172, crazy fast , as I continue to spread, I have Science and Production from Coucil of Elders. I buy Open Boders with Egypt right away. My missionary now can roam freely in his territory without losing strength, it saves me lots of time since I dont have to dodge border anymore. I buy Open Boders with India too because hes also my neighbour.

Spoiler Next tech :

I dont care much about other techs, I go straight to Gunpowder for Himeji Castle. Im sure I can get the very fast.

Spoiler Borobudur :

Borobudur is done on turn 177. I didnt take picture of me converting Egypt, it goes smoothly. The production from Coucil of Elders save me a lot of turns on Borobudur. This is a very important wonder. It makes my missionary 50% stronger.

....to be continues.

 

[Minh Le]

Spoiler Next target :

I converted Egypt completely, he will defend my religion by himself since he didnt found one. Next target is India. He's still weak now. Only 2 cities of him have his religion. He's being harashed hard by Ethiopia. But first, Im gonna convert 2 city states to reform.

Spoiler Sankore :

Oh and I build Sankore because I can , in turn 183, 6 turns after Borobudur, without invest. That's how strong Coucil of Elders is .

Spoiler Next tree :

Obviously Fealty. My already cheap Missionary is now cheaper .

Spoiler Reform :

Converting Egypt and 4 city states (I think?) enable the Holy Coucil. I build it and reform. I pick Knowledge Through Devotion because it gives the most faith.

Spoiler Analyze the target :

India has 5 cities, only 2 of them have his religion. He's just enhance so his faith is depleted. Its a good time to convert him now. He has one building, but only 2 cities with his religion, so about 6 missionaries are enough for this. One for each city and 2 for the holy city.

Spoiler Preparation :

This is how im gonna do to convert and earase one religion. I do it all at once. Get my missionaries standby on the target, ready, then bombard him with convert action. This will prevent the AI to buy Inquisitor to fight back, because once the religion flip, he cannot buy missionary from those city any more. Once he use his Inquisitor, I will just convert the city back with Spread actions left on my missionary.

Spoiler Result :

4 of his cities now follow my religion. He buy an Inquisitor but he's not smart enough to station him in the holy city and keep buying more. Instead, he used the Inquisitor on Vijajajajaja, and I have plenty of spread left to reconvert .

Spoiler Lone Inquisitor :

Poor little lone Inquisitor without a holy city ... What can he do? And looks like someone is upset, but I dont care .

I will keep updating later. Thank you guys for reading. Hope you guys enjoy this .

 

[John.B.C]

Was nice to come back from work to see this; can't wait for next update!

 

[Minh Le]

Good morning guys (well, its morning here). Here's the next update.
First let's talk a bit about religion pressure and spread. I play based on my feeling, trials and errors so Im sorry, I cant provide you exact number. Here's what I observe:
- Religious pressure comes from 2 sources: Holy city and followers. Buildings, beliefs then strengthen it.
- The more religious pressure emit from a city, the harder to convert it using spreading action. I dont know the exact number, but my full power Dioceses Missionary converted 1 citizen in a 35 pops India non-holy city with 400+ pressure to my religion for each spread . So to convert it I will need at least 10 missionaries at once ....
- Prophet always erase other religions followers, but the number of your followers gained is based on the strength of the Prophet. Sometime for those extra tough one, you gonna need both a prophet AND a missionary (well I guess it's better than using 10 missionaries at once ).
- You need to do the surprise attack like I showed last part in order to convert a religion. Once you converted a religion, its owner will be VERY MAD. I had over -1000 diplo by spreading my religion . So you need to do it when its owner still friendly. If you let them have only one city left follow their religion, they will buy Inquisitors and declare war then it will be much harder.
Now, lets continue:

Spoiler World Congress :

I propose something people like as always. Its neccessary because I will need to be friend with others to execute my plan. I continue to buy Missionaries non-stop. I can buy one every turn now. I put them to wait for my next target.

Spoiler Gunpowder :

I got Gunpowder on turn 211, 39 turns after Civil Service, which means 10 techs in 39 turns .. That's Coucil of Elders. My science output is very poor. I build Himeji Castle. I have enough missionaries for my next target now and moved them, converting will speed up Himeji also. Good timing right?

Spoiler Next tech :

Next is Metallurgy for Red Fort. I might grab Leaning Tower on the way if I want to.

Spoiler And my next target :

Next is Arabia. He doesnt have his own Religion, so I will get possitive diplo with him by spreading. He has some missionaries, but since its not his own religion, he wont try as hard to defend, and my missionaries are 200% stronger (one extra spread and bypass 50% pressure of existing religion).

Spoiler Good timing :

Civ game is all about good timing you know. It's like chess, you plan ahead your next move.

Spoiler Done :

My missionaries are 2X stronger, what can he do? He's now Happily adopted my religion .

Spoiler Next target :

Next is Maya. He has 6 cities so I will need roughly 12 missionaries. I buy missionaries and send them to colombo to wait for the surprise attack. I convert some city states using my leftover spreads of my missionaries in Arabia mission to speed up Leaning Tower.

Spoiler Power of Coucil of Elders :

It's a very powerful belief if using right.

Spoiler India UA plays to my advantage :

As India continue to grow, my pressure will keep increase, and I will have more followers, and It keeps increase. It keeps Ethiopia in check since he will be busy sending missionaries to India and Arabia, but my religion has 2 buildings, so very strong defend, he cant do much.

... to be continue.