COR1: The un-Militaristic Celts.

[a space oddity]

Originally posted by Corrado

Thoughts on the future-
* It looks like German lands have been razed- I might check in to see if there's anything interesting to poach. A free lux or two would be nice; oil would be great.

There's no such luck. All cities with goodies where just kept. (edit: there's some fur left but I fear we will not be able to get there quickly enough) There even is one with oil, Hamburg. There's actually quite a bit of oil on the other continent. If we really need to I think we should be able to buy it. We are easily out-researching the AI ATM so my guess is that we'll have what it takes.

But my question is, like Greebley implied, is it really that bad? Aluminium and uranium are both much more important to us. I feel we can live without Tanks or Bombers for a long time yet.

 

[Corrado]

Okay, I'm delaying my turn so that we can discuss this. I'll play tomorrow or Sunday morning, depending upon how long it takes to reach consensus.

It is an annoyance that we have no Oil. It is of slight consolation that there was nothing we could do about it- the mere 3 sources of oil on our continent are in the very far north and the very far south, meaning that only if we had completely overrun our continent would we have gained the oil.

Looking at the other sources- Germany had two, but those have been divided up between Sumer and the Zulu. The Hittites have access to one, but have not hooked it up. Portugal has two- one at home, and one on an island just north of us. And that would seem to be it. So China has a spare, and Portugal a spare. 8 sources of Oil for 11 countries. You do the math.

We have 4 options, it seems.

#1: Ignore it. The only thing we lose is the ability to construct advanced troops, and quite frankly, that's not a huge loss- we can still build Infantry/TOW units, Flak cannons/SAMs, and artillery of most types. We lose the ability to construction planes and ships, but we don't really need a lot of either, do we? If we absolutely need it later- war or such- we'll make a deal.

#2: Fight for it the only way we can- culturally! We could send a ship with some settlers in to poach the conquered German lands, and with enough cash-rushing we could probably steal the Oil the Zulu have taken. This also means we can pick up the Furs that are available. We're a mere 2 techs away from Airports, and with our amazing cash reserves, we could easily rush enough to start shipping Infantry over as necessary (as well as pick up the resources without worrying about harbors). Chances are, eventually the Zulus will go to war with us about it, but it'll be a long long while before they can put anything other than Cavalry on the ground against us.

#3: Set up China as our new bestest buddy. They have two sources hooked up, and are a single tech away from knowing about it. The advantage here is that a trade between the two of us could keep China from wanting to go to war with us for a while. The downside is that we build up the country that is otherwise most likely to go to war with us. If we do this, we should probably push for a massive unit build-up ASAP before China changes its mind.

#4: Set up Portugal as our new bestest buddy. They're the other country with 2 sources, and they're also short Refining. While they aren't as likely to go directly to war with us, they're the second-biggest country, and most likely to be our strongest or next-strongest rival for the Space Race. So, once again, we'd be powering up an eventual foe.


Tell me what you think. I lean towards option #2- the daring settler- with option #1 as our fallback position. We've avoided war for nearly all of the game, so I'm not too worried about China getting uppity, but it is a fear....

 

[Greebley]

I would at least try 2. Just don't put a town too close and I don't think it will end up as war.

I don't have a problem with trading for it. We give them gpt and then trade for a tech to get the gpt back.

1 also works. If we go for 1, I suggest building radar towers (when we get them), infantry and artillery. A decent number of Inf and Artillery can kill anything that comes over the border in human vs AI.

(there is also the strategy of planting forests on certain spots if you want to slow enemy troops. I do this if it makes a town "safe" and the town can afford the lose of food)

 

[a space oddity]

I feel option 1 is somewhat against the spirit of the game. The Oil of the zulus is in the first 9 tiles of Hamburg. It'll take agressive settling to grab it directly and also if we gamble on it to flip to us. I think the Zulu capital is nearer, so to stand a chance we need a LOT of cultural pressure.

That being said, Corrado is the ultimate judge of that, since he's boss. I have nothing against aggresive settling.

 

[AndrewN]

As has been stated, oil is not necessary, but the oppurtunity is there now to get it, its a bit late to discover we need it in 20 turns

I have not looked at the save but option 2 seems to be the best idea and it gives us something to do whilst we win.

 

[Greebley]

2 can't be done

Any placement will lead to war

 

[Greebley]

Duplicate post

[Edit: Actually Portugual has decent gpt available. I would trade them refining and then trade for their oil. I seem to recall a resource is cheaper if you buy it before it becomes useful. You may be able to get a reduced price if you go for it right away.]

 

[Corrado]

Greebley- actually, there's plenty of space where we wouldn't fall into the "attack zone" of the computer player. We won't be directly poaching the oil, but I can set up three cities in neutral territory to put massive cultural pressure on Hamburg. Given the overwhelming response for option #2, I'm going to try it.

Pre-turn:
Switch Durocorotum to a Galleon and rush it.
Switch Lezoux, Axima, and Tolosa to Settlers. Rush the Settler in Tolosa.

IBT: Sumeria decides that 486 gpt for Spices isn't worth it. Can't say I blame him. Unfortunately, he re-assigns that 486 right away, so he has no gpt left for any tech deal. We trade Spices to him for a mere 190 gold and WM.

Babylon declares war on the Chinese. Babylonian Cavalry force immediately gets its ass kicked by the Chinese Swords and MDI.

1405 AD (1) We research Steel. Next up is Combustion, so we can get closer to Flight. Due to the loss of the Sumer deal, we have to knock tech down 1 notch, so due in 7 at +57gpt.

Entremont Infantry->Infantry. Alesia Bank->Stock Exchange. Lugdunum Hospital->Stock Exchange. Camulodunum Hospital->Infantry. Bananaville Infantry->Infantry. Augustudorum Infantry->Infantry. Tolosa Settler->Factory. Glevum Hospital->Granary. Axima Settler-> Infantry. Lezoux Settler->Infantry. Durocortorum Galleon-> Galleon.

Did you know? Bananaville produces 92 spt!

Okay, first things first. Babylon and China are fighting. If there's anyone we want to win, it's Bablyon. China's bigger than us, so we'd prefer they get knocked down a bit; and every city that Babylon takes becomes a flip risk to *our* side.

So, Babylon pays us 48 gold for an ROP. That should help them out a bit.

Our first galleon sets sail with 2 infantry and 2 settlers.
Rush the second galleon in Durocoturum.

Workers work; infantry moves up to the cities where the fighting is near.

IBT: Watch the Babylon-China war. China, depsite being tech-low in its units, is winning through sheer numbers.

1410 AD (2): Richborough Stock Exchange->Colosseum. Bananville Infantry->Infantry. Burdigala Hospital->Stock Exchange. Ratae C. Hospital-> Bank. Lindum Hospital->Bank. Rutupiae Colloseum->Factory. Durocoturm Galleon->Marketplace. Gergovia University->Marketplace.

IBT: China is really having no problem fighting off the Babylonians.

1415 AD (3):Entremont Infantry->Infantry. Camulodunum Infantry->Infantry. Bananaville Infantry->Infantry. Augusutudorum Infantry->Infantry. Nemausus Bank-> Hospital. Curovernum Bank->Stock Exchange. Glevum Granary->Harbor.

We lost our supply of Silks, apparently. And ~225 gpt. Another deal must have died off. Sell Electricity to the Zulu for Silks, 57 gpt, and 162 g.

Check through the rest of the nations, no one has serious cash to offer except China. Well, what the hell- trade Refining to China for Fascism, 281 gpt, and 261 g. We then trade China our World Map for its oil. Read that sentence again- China gives us the lifeblood of the modern army for World maps we've traded to him before. Woot!

IBT: Babylon's attacks all end in painful death. China's counterattacks all end in painful death. We profit off of both sides. There's an ethical problem here, somewhere.

1420 AD (4): Verulamium Hospital->Infantry. Bananaville Infantry->Infantry. Axima Infantry->Infantry. Deva Hospital->Factory. Lezoux Infantry->Infantry.

IBT: Sumeria and Portugal ally against the Hittites. Sumeria declares war on the Hittites. Portugal signs a peace treaty with the Hittites. Very sneaky, Portugal.

Babylon continues to show which of the sides is the Militaristic one, as their stacks die to waves of attacking Chinese Infantry.

1425 AD (5): Entremont Infantry->Infantry. Camulodonum Infantry->Infantry. Richborough Coloseeum->Granary. Bananaville Infantry->Infantry. Augustudorum Infantry->Infantry. Cataractonium Bank->Stock Exchange. Glanum Hospital->Bank. Glevum Harbor->Stock Exchange. Arausio Granary->Factory.

Russia and Ottomans declare war on the Hittites. Why did that happen on my turn?

Ah, the root of the Babylonian war problem seems to be that they have no Rubber. We can rectify that, and do, for 43 gpt + 90. Of course, to maintain an air of neutrality, we must sell our Coal to China for 36 gpt + 130. The Ottomans do not desire our Coal nearly so much, but having 5gpt+20 is better than just having all this anthracite sitting around, isn't it?

This influx of wealth allows us to push tech back to 100%. Combustion in 2.

IBT: Babylon signs an MA with Sumer against the Hittites. We renew Dyes for 16 gpt with Sumer.

Babylon's lone rifleman manages to pillage some Ivory before going down in a blaze of gunfire. China is now invading our lands to get up to Bablyon. Russia also moves a few stacks in.

1430 AD (6): Bananaville Infantry->Infantry. Lapurdum Hospital->Battlefield Medicine. Lindum Bank->Stock Exchange. Isca Stock Eschange->Police Station. Axima Infantry->Infantry.

Our settlers begin to reach the new continent.

IBT: Sumer questions our presence on the new continent. We sign an ROP and get 12 gold for it. Now we can use Sumer's rail network to put cultural pressure on its cities. Thanks, dude!

Babylon offers its WM for Steel. We do a spit-take.

1435 AD (7): We finish researching Combustion. Up next- Flight.

Entremont Infantry->Infantry. Alesia Stock Exchange->Infantry. Calumodunum Infantry->Destroyer. Richborough Granary->Destroyer. Verulamium Infantry->Infantry. Bananaville Infantry->Infantry. Augustodorum Infantry->Infantry. Agedenicum Stock Exchange->Hospital. Ratae C. Bank->Stock Exchange. Lezoux Infantry->Infantry. Dyfed Courthouse->Factory.

IBT: China moves into our territory, going for Babylon.

1440 AD (8): Bananville Infantry->Infantry. Monguntiacum Factory->Marketplace. Axima Infantr->Infantry. Noviomagus Marketplace->Factory.

China will pat 10g for a ROP. Sure. Let Russia worry about the rampaging Chinese hordes.

IBT: As expected, China wipes out the Bab units that showed up this turn, and begins zooming through our lands into Russia. Hope Catherine's ready!

1445 AD (9): Entremont Infantry->Infantry. Bananaville Infantry->Infantry. Augustodorum Infantry->Infantry. Burdigala Stock Exchange->Stock Exchange. Er, no, Destroyer. Sorry. Got carried away there. Nemausus Hospital->Courthouse. Curovernum Stock Exchange->Destroyer. Lezoux Infantry->Infantry.

Found Eboracum in the New World. It starts on a Temple.

1450 AD (10) Alesia Infantry->Infantry. Camulodunum Destroyer->Destroyer. Richborough Destroyer->Destroyer. Verulamium Infantry->Infantry. Bananaville Infantry->Infantry. Lindum Stock Exchange->Police Station. Axima Infantry->Infantry.


For the next players:

Here's a map of the New World area.

The two Infantry stacks there have settlers underneath. They are in position to settle on your first turn, and I think their placement should be just fine. If you want to move the northern settler pair one space sw to better threaten Hannover as well, that's fine.

Remember- rush culture buildings every other turn in those settlements until we get flight, then rush an airport in there and build a few back home so that we can send Infantry and workers over in a deluge.

We're still way above everyone else in terms of tech, culture, and score. Culture-wise, we have 49725 to Sumer's 36495. Our culture seems to be 3-4 times that of the Zulus, so we might be able to force the flips we want. Of course, we're double China and Russia's culture and haven't forced any of *those* flips, so we'll see. But it's interesting to try.

Our big rivals now:

Sumer: 3rd in score and size, but doing well against the Hittites and liable to expand culturally and scientifically at a pace we don't want to think about.

Portugal: Biggest in size, 2nd in score. Not sure if they're going to stay there, or if they've started to decline. They're in Fascism, so I lean towards 'decline'.

China: Largest in population, and about to try to put the hurt on Babylon. Chances are, it won't get far- Bablyon should be able to build Infantry now and thus defend itself well.

Our army is average compared to Russia and Babylon, and strong (!) compared to the Atzecs, Korea, Ottomans, Zulus, and Hittites.



The Save.

 

[Corrado]

[Edited: You really didn't need to see that turn log twice in a row. Sorry about that.]

 

[Greebley]

I think we were talking about two different things. I meant a direct steal where we build a town which grabs the oil from Hamburg was impossible. Surrounding Hamburg to get a flip is as you say, quite possible.

Note that we can almost steal the Oil directly (i.e without a flip). A town 2 squares W of hamburg would not start a war with the Zulu and would claim the oil if it had more culture than hamburg (even if hamburg didn't flip). Such a town would have been too close to Bonn however.

 

[AndrewN]

It's me, and something interesting is happening

Got it.

 

[AndrewN]

OK, how long is it since I played the game. Not long, but somebody has been busy with the railnet as it is almost complete. I think democracy and replaceable parts helped here

Hurry temple in Eboracum for 116g.

IBT
The Babylons bombard Paoting
Portugal and China sign allaince against Babylon, Portugal declares war on Babylon. Masses of Chinese troops disapear into Russia.

Entremont infantry -> infantry
Bananaville infantry -> infantry
Augustodurum infantry -> infantry
Glevum stock exchange -> cruiser
Lezoux infantry -> hospital
Eboracum temple -> cathedral

1) 1455AD
Various outdated defensive units dispanded.
New Entremont founded, set to temple.
New Alesia founded, set to temple.
Hurry colosseum in Segusio for 132g

IBT
You're kidding me. Portugal demands steal. I'm sure thry will back down but I let them have it.
Russia wants ROP. OK
Lots of Chinese troops enter Russia and a few redlined cav come back.
Entremont infantry -> police station
Bananaville infantry -> police station
Cataractonium stock exchange -> granary
Nemausus courthouse -> stock exchange
Glanum bank -> stock exchange
Segusio colosseum -> aqueduct
Axima infantry -> settler

2) 1460AD
Dispand all spears in suitable border city. We still(!) have that elite warrior
Rush temple in New Entremont and New Alesia for 116g each.
Flight due next turn, turn science down to 50%

IBT
Our dyes deal with the Hittites ends (they gave 15gpt)
Zulu offers WM for WM + scientific method. On yer bike.
We lose our furs. We should have our own on line soon.
Babylon and China sign peace
Flight in. Start mass production in 5 @90%
Alesia infantry -> airport
Lugdunum stock exchange -> airport
Camulodunum destroyer -> airport
Richborough destroyer -> airport
Verulamium infantry -> airport
Augustodurum infantry -> airport
Agedincum hospital -> airport
Ratae Coritanorum stock exchange -> airport
Curovernum destroyer -> airport
Isca police station -> hospital
Axmia settler -> airport
New Entremont temple -> airport
New Alisa temple -> airport
We lose our gems.

3) 1465AD
Swap Entremont, Bananaville and Eboracum to airport.
Hurry airport in Eboracum for 632g
Refining is known so I sell it round
We get 59gpt and 95g from the Hittites and gems and WM from Ottomans
We also have 2 spare dyes. I get 9gpt + 700g from Portugal and 16gpt from Babylon.
Turn science to 100% from Mass Production in 4 at -28gpt.

IBT
Bananaville airport -> infantry
Cataractonium granary -> airport
Lindum police station -> wealth
Eboracum airport -> cathedral

4) 1470AD
Discover I can't transport settlers by air . Send them by ship instead.
Start transportation of workers to out colony
Hurry airport in New Entremont and New Alesia for 636g and Camulodunum for 424g.

IBT
China wants a MMP. Not in this life. I swap territory maps instead.
Entremont airport -> wealth
Camulodunum airport -> wealth
Bananaville infantry -> wealth
Burdigala destroyer -> police station
Lezoux hospital -> wealth
Our cultural influence expands at Eboracum
New Entremont airport -> cathedral
New Alesia airport -> cathedral

5) 1475AD
Hurry cathedral in Eboracum for 316g

IBT
Korea and Portugal sign an alliance against Babylon and Korea declares war.
Hittites and Russia sign peace
Segusio aqueduct -> marketplace
Monguntiacum marketplace -> hospital
Glevum crusier -> wealth
Eboracum cathedral -> library

6) 1480AD
Mass production due next turn, science to 90%.
Hurry cathedrals in New Entremont and New Alesia for 316g each.

IBT
Russia wants MMP. Sorry.
Mass production in. Start Motorised transport, 4 turns at 100%.
Richborough airport -> commercial dock
Augustodurum airport -> wealth
Nemausus stock exchange -> commercial dock
Axima airport -> wealth
Gergovia marketplace -> hospital
New Entremont cathedral -> library
New Alesia cathedral -> library
Cultural infuluence expandes at New Entremont and New Alesia. Hamburg is now completely surronded by our culture (not that I am expecting a flip)
We lose our supply of incense

7) 1485AD
Upgrade our galleon to transport for 150g
We connect up the furs outside Eboracum.
I trade our spare iron to Korea for their wines
Swap Glevum and Camulodunum to commercial dock

IBT
Korea and Hittites sign peace
Alesia airport -> wealth
Verulamium airport -> wealth
Agedincum airport -> commercial dock
Ratae Coritanorum airport -> wealth
Isca hospital -> wealth
Arausio hospital -> factory

8) 1490AD
Nothing

IBT
I think the Zulu's are worried about Hamburg. A number of units spotted entering
Cataractonium airport -> hospital
Curovernum airport -> commercial dock

9) 1495AD
All of our lands are now improved. I shall merge some workers into our cities.
The Ironclads tech is aailable. I see no reason to get this.
The Hittites have a number of workers available. Again, of no use to us.

IBT
Camulodunum commercial dock -> wealth
Glanum stock exchange -> commercial dock
Durocortorum marketplace -> factory

10) 1500AD
Workers work, everybody else sits at home and has a drink .


Notes
There is a settler and escort on a galley heading towards our outpost. There is suitable sopt to settle south of New Entremont near the cow.

I have no use for our large stack of workers. I have merged some into our cities but we still have 60. There is a big stack fortified near Axima incase of emergencies.

We still have 9 pikes and 9 muskets. IMO these have no use and can be dispanded, but I leave this up for discussion. We are currently paying 174gpt unit upkeep.

Moterised transport is due next turn. I have already adjusted the science rate. After that we only need radio to advance to the Modern age. I can see no use in researching the remaining techs in the IA. We are a long way ahead of the AI's in tech.

If you want you can rush the libaries in Eboracum, New Entremont and New Alesia to put more pressure in Hamburg. We stand little chance of it flipping although its borders haven't grown yet.

Its very strange. We have twice the culture of Russia and Tver' is much nearer our capital than the Russian but it hasn't flipped in 2000 years. Corrado are you sure culture flipping is switched on?

Save

 

[Greebley]

I was kind of wondering that too

It could be the AI has enough unit or it could simply be a matter of luck. The flip chance is generally small so it is possible to get long runs with no flips.

 

[AndrewN]

OK so I got curious and I did an investigation of Tver' for 53g. They only have 7 defenders and we have 7 of the 21 squares it would normally use.

Using anarres flip calculator (correctly I hope) we have a 3% chance of it flipping to us per turn (or over 100 turns the chance is greater than 95%. I know I was unlucky but still

 

[andvruss]

Got it

 

[Corrado]

I am sure that flipping was on; I have never turned it off for any of my games. But with no flips over the course of things, I'm starting to wonder. Is there any way to check those conditions?

 

[Greebley]

The only way I know is to get one of the people who have decoded the format of the save files to see if they know how to do it.

Alternatively, if you haven't started a new game since then, Corrado, you can choose "replay last world". it should show all the settings when you go through it.

Also 1/20 chance is not so unlikely. I could still just be chance. Or it is possible that the formula was changed at some point. Sirp for example felt that having one unit per square overlap was sufficient to prevent flips. They have exactly that. I don't know that anyone has sat down and calculated if the flip formula is still correct. The info for the flip calc is not recent.

 

[andvruss]

Preturn: Wow, so wired to see all these regular units!
Disband around 10 units.
Rush libs in the cities mentioned

IBT: We learn motorized Transport-Radio
Richborough commercial deck-police station
Nemsausus CD-police station
Glevum CD-PS
Eboracum lib-court
New Entremont lib-court
New Alesia lib-court

1505: The game crashes Luckily I didnt do anything that turn
I switch half wealth producing cities to police stations
Science to 100. Radio due in 5 with 242 gpt

IBT: Lugdunem airport-CD
Bannaville court-PS
Dyfed factory-bank

1510: Not too much

IBT: KOrea asks us to leave. Of course....
Agedicum CD-PS
Burdigala PS-CD
Lapurdenum battlefield medicine-Stock exchnage
Segiusto market-PS
Our deals expire. We lose oil and silk

1515: trade sci meth and the corp for solks, incense, 22gpt, 18 gold and WM to Shaka (everyone else basically has these techs).
I see no reason to sell out our monopoly techs.

IBT: Hitties and Bablyon sign peace
Bananaville PS-wealth
Catarorcium hospital-court
Curovenum CD-PS
Lexouz PS-airport
We love the King day celebrated empire wide
I add to our palace
We caught Mao attempting to place a spy.......

1520: Our citizens better be happy! We have all luxes

IBT: Zulu ask we leave. Sure bud....
Richborough PS-wealth
Nemasus PS-wealth
Mongintanium hospital-bank
Glevum PS-wealth
Axima PS-wealth

1525: Found New Lugdenum 1 tile SW of the cow. Disband a worker and rush a temple

IBT: Russia and Portugal sign allaince against Bablyon
Russia declares war on Bablyon. This could get interesting.
Zulu and Portugal sign alliance against Bablyon
Aztecs and Portugal sign alliance against Babylon
Babylon dont want to extend the 43gpt for rubber deal....there loss
We learn Radio-Fission
New Lugdunmen temple-lib
Coriataium PS-wealth
I expand the palace
Glad the music for modern age isn't on

1530: I build some settlers. I suspect that Babylon might kinda lose some cities....
The Hitties are falling. Build more settlers

IBT: Bannaville settler-settler
Augustordum settler-PS
Catarconium court-PS
Glanum CD-PS
Glevum settler-wealth
Lzoux airport-wealth
Dyfed bank-stock exchange
New Entremont court-PS
Dyfed's cultural borders expand.

1535: I send a transport with 3 inf and 3 settlers to razed Hittie lands

IBT: New Lugdunem lib-court
Bananaville settler-wealth
Agedicum PS-wealth
Deva factory-colosseum

1540: Join workers

IBT: Russia and Zulu sign allaince vs Hitties
Lapurdam stockexcahnge -PS Tolosa factory-hospital
curovenum PS-wealth
Our culture expands in 3 cities of our colonies

1545: Drop off 3 settlers and 3 inf on the Hittie lands
Bablyon has already started to fall

IBT: Burdigala CD-wealth
Novimagus factory-hospital

1550: New Camulodunum founded-temple
Found New Richborough -temple

 

[andvruss]

Save

 

[AndrewN]

Nice

With all these wars we might get a domination victory after all

I don't think Kaiser_Berger is about at the moment, he is also missing in SORO1, should Greebley take it now?