Corruption Corruption! Tell me why it works this way?

[marshalljames]

Cullture reduces corruption???? Since when? The only way to combat corruption in this game is to have a VERY solid infrastructure of your core cities so that you can support your hopelessly corrupt cities.


Sorry bud your wrong..the best way to reduce corruption is to have 'We Love The President Days" Going on all over the place.
And to do this you need happy people.So it stands to reason that the stronger the culture the more happy ppl you have.Buildings such as Banks ,Courthouses ,Research Labs, Police Stations which have no culture value also reduce corruption when there is a large enough density of these types of buildings.IMO

 

[Bamspeedy]

Sorry bud your wrong..the best way to reduce corruption is to have 'We Love The President Days" Going on all over the place.

WLTK day makes about a 10-20% difference in corruption from my experience. Yipee, may city is 65% corrupt instead of 80%.

And to do this you need happy people.So it stands to reason that the stronger the culture the more happy ppl you have.Buildings such as Banks ,Courthouses ,Research Labs, Police Stations which have no culture value also reduce corruption when there is a large enough density of these types of buildings.IMO

When you say 'culture', some people may think your including libraries, universities, etc. in there, too. Yes, the happiness improvements may help kick off a WTKD day. But in my case I had all 8 luxuries and marketplaces (multiplies the happiness in a city) in every city. In the cities that also had a temple and cathedral the cities were still 70%+ corrupt. Are you saying the way corruption should be, or the way it is the game? Because banks don't reduce corruption and neither does research labs (they do have culture, though), unless your playing a modded game.

Side note:
I would like to see someone do a more scientific study on WTKD days. You need to have a large city, so you can get a more accurate percentage. In my case it was 10-20%, but I'd like to hear some other answers on this.

 

[Ironikinit]

In cities where corruption is total, WLTK has a strong influence, going from totally corrupt to 50% corrupt or so. That might not seem like much, but it makes the difference between building at an intollerably slow rate and an acceptable one.

Ideally, I have two core areas clustered around my palace and forbidden palace. Then I have outpost cities. Outposts are for resource gathering or they may have a military rationale. By accepting the limits imposed by the rules, I can keep overall corruption and waste easily under 20% in republic and democracy.

As an aside, it's helpful to distinguish between lost shields and lost commerce. I think it's common to call lost shields "waste" and lost commerce "corruption".

I could easily change the rules but for the time being I'm playing by standard rules. I don't put a whole lot of stock in poll results. They're nice to have, but the disgruntled have more reason to vote.

 

[BillChin]

Originally posted by Ironikinit

...
By accepting the limits imposed by the rules, I can keep overall corruption and waste easily under 20% in republic and democracy.
...

Please, one of the supporters of the current corruption rules take this chance to educate the Civ III community. Play the March game GOTM where several players had severe problems with corruption. Keep a log of significant events and post comments to the spoiler thread in the GOTM section. Other players can download the saved games (10 A.D. and end of game) and learn from this experience. They can see first hand if they want to emulate the play style needed to minimize corruption.

Maybe players will see what sacrifices are needed and will not want to play this way. More likely, most players will learn something useful. Again, I don't care much about score or type of victory. Again, it is a small map, so time is not a big factor. The time and energy spent posting and arguing could be much more effectively used playing and teaching. Have a good one.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3gotm/civ3gotm05.shtml

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by BillChin


Please, one of the supporters of the current corruption rules take this chance to educate the Civ III community. Play the March game GOTM where several players had severe problems with corruption. Keep a log of significant events and post comments to the spoiler thread in the GOTM section. Other players can download the saved games (10 A.D. and end of game) and learn from this experience. They can see first hand if they want to emulate the play style needed to minimize corruption.

Maybe players will see what sacrifices are needed and will not want to play this way. More likely, most players will learn something useful. Again, I don't care much about score or type of victory. Again, it is a small map, so time is not a big factor. The time and energy spent posting and arguing could be much more effectively used playing and teaching. Have a good one.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3gotm/civ3gotm05.shtml

Hopefully, I will have a chance to play this weekend. I really don't want to playthe Americans, but oh well. Unfortunately, beer always seems to get in the way. I played once when I was drunk, and by the end of the middle ages, I had about 70% corruption going on. Of course, my government was still despotism.

 

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by BillChin
Play the March game GOTM where several players had severe problems with corruption. Keep a log of significant events and post comments to the spoiler thread in the GOTM section. . . . Again, it is a small map, so time is not a big factor.

I don't usually play GOTM because I rarely "finish" games. (Games become less interesting as the end result becomes clear, and I don't have a great deal of time for playing anyway.) GOTM5 is a small map, so I'll try and give it a whirl this weekend.

Thanks for the suggestion, BillChin!

 

[Zachriel]

http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/gotm5/

WARNING: SPOILER FOR GOTM5. STOP NOW, if you haven't finished GOTM5

 

[Bamspeedy]

Great job, Zachriel

Excellent summary of your game with very helpful tips. I did notice when you had the corruption summary, the two cities to the east, the one that was just 3 tiles further away the corruption jumped from 20+% to 60+%. All because it wasn't on the mainland (unless that city lacked a police station or something). Or perhaps there is a cutoff in distance and once you go over by just one tile you end up in a much bigger corruption catagory. In my game (not a GOTM) I was way, way over the optimal number of cities. I wonder if courthouses, etc doesn't help with that form of corruption, just distance from capital corruption. It would be nice to know those thresholds on distance, maybe I'll go do some testing.....

 

[Bamspeedy]

I found something out after testing. With money improvements and depending on what you have your science set to, you can radically change what appears to be your corruption. Marketplaces and banks seem to increase only the uncorrupted gold, thus you have a smaller percentage of corruption, but the same amount is taken out. Example: City with bank and marketplace science set to 100% loses 9 out of 27 for corruption = 33%. Change science to 0%, still have 9 lost to corruption, but now it shows me making 49 possible gold = 18% corruption.

 

[BillChin]

Originally posted by Zachriel
http://www.crowncity.net/civ3/gotm5/

WARNING: SPOILER FOR GOTM5. STOP NOW, if you haven't finished GOTM5

Bravo!
/ Standing ovation /

A virtuoso performance and a web page to match. I concede the point.

From the map screenshots, it looks like city spacing is one key to limiting corruption. I figure I have about 30% more cities in the same space. More space translates into fewer cities, less corruption.

 

[marshalljames]

Because banks don't reduce corruption and neither does research labs (they do have culture, though), unless your playing a modded game.

But do they in-directly reduce corruption by in the case of banks improving your economy thereby increasing the happiness of people reducing the likelihood of corruption.
Or in the case of librairies increase the literacy.Because when my corruption increases because of far away colonies conversly my literacy rates decreases.No buildings or few..
I would therefore like to know what the liteacy rates of corruption and flipping problem games are.I would hazard a guess that they are low and in near last place as to world ranking.

 

[Bamspeedy]

But do they in-directly reduce corruption by in the case of banks improving your economy thereby increasing the happiness of people reducing the likelihood of corruption.

I found out after testing that banks, etc increase only the amount of money you are putting directly into your treasury. I had 2 cities both producing 27 gold and lost 19 due to corruption with science at 100%. In one city I sold the marketplace and bank. When changing science to 0%, the city without the improvements saw no change. But the city with the marketplace and bank made 43 gold with still only 19 lost. So the improvements made it seem that corruption was smaller (smaller percentage). But in high corrupt cities that are only making like 1 uncorrupted gold, banks would be worthless.

Or in the case of librairies increase the literacy.Because when my corruption increases because of far away colonies conversly my literacy rates decreases.No buildings or few..

When having more cities you start experience the 'optimal number of cities' corruption. When you exceed that number of cities you start seeing more corruption even in your core cities. Literacy rate is based on how many cities have all the science improvements. I had 200+ cities, none of them with libraries or anything (sold them to prevent culture victory) my literacy rate was 4%, if every single one of them had libraries, universities, research labs it would have been 100%. In my game the 200+ cities was 6 times the 32 optimal number for a huge map. Therefore my corruption was 6 times as bad as normal.

The demographics screen gives you insight into how well you are doing in certain areas against the AI, but it doesn't affect the gameplay at all.

 

[chiefpaco]

I'm pretty happy with the corruption rules as they stand. I don't take the game more realistically than I think it has to be. Also, I am not obsessed about making my 30th city 30 tiles away a powerhouse. My basic strategy is to build a ring (or 2, with the FP) of a dozen or so good cities, & use the rest of the cities as territory holders, resource/luxury gatherers, worker factories, Draftee sources & culture points (with a temple). Factor in that the AI suffers the same corruption rules...

I played the GOTM5 & posted my results. I won easily enough & never moved the original capital. Corruption is more for play balance & strategy than perfection, IMHO.

From the sounds of it though, it sure wouldn't hurt to have a govt dependent cap in the editor for those who disagree.

 

[marshalljames]

There was a mod-pack someone made that gave a gold piece every turn for certain buildings,It works well at reducing corruption(or providing x-tra cash).To well IMO,unless it's a constant struggle for money the game becomes un-interesting.