COTM 02: Spoiler 2: End of Middle ages

klarius said:
Well it worked in my game, I had five luxes before astronomy. One on my island, three by cities next to resources on the next continent. One traded from spain (through my own harbor city connected to her road network),


SirPleb said:
Just to confirm klarius' note: I've tried this on a test map in Conquests and the Great Lighthouse does indeed enable trade across sea tiles. I think this must have been a change to Civ3 at some point. I'm not sure when. At this point it does indeed work.

SirPleb - when you tested it did you trade between two of your own towns seperated by sea (and with the Lighthouse), or between your town and someone else's? Maybe if only one of you was allowed to trade across sea squares it would make a difference (or maybe it used to on PTW).
 
leopalas said:
Its just that sometimes i get so frustrated... I understand know that im not too interested in quick domination/conquest victories and im just that kind of guy who likes the empire bulding type of game even if doesnt get that much of a Jason score. Spaceship victories, Histograph and 100K are probably the kind of victories ill pursuit in the future in what COTM is concerned ( it was just my second BTW ). Rapid tech advance is however important to this kind of victories, and i just cant get near the early pace that some players achieve. If someone could give me a hint on this or a link to any threads that provide information on the issue i would be obliged. Regards to you all.

I know what you're feeling. A lot of newcomers to GOTM probably feel the same way. I know I did when I got here. I was just figuring out how to win games on regent when I joined the forum here. Reading the boards, and the QSC timelines in particular, helped me improve my game immensely. There's always something you can learn with each new GOTM.

You want to learn about rapid tech advance, I'd suggest looking up a few posts at DaveMcW's entry. Industrial age in 260AD. Can't get much faster than that. The big key to fast tech is getting the AI to research with you, and research something DIFFERENT than you so you can trade. This means staying out of war as much as you can, and gifting tech as needed.

Scientific civs can help boost your pace as they get a free tech each new age. As DaveMcW pointed out, there are no scientific civs here. So he traded Republic for the lower techs he didn't have yet and gifted to the rest, allowing all the other civs to boost their science rate. Then he chose techs that they weren't likely to research, so he could trade for ones they did. He has a link in his article to a post that explains the AI strategy in tech picking.

In my game the Inca were so science powerful that I traded almost exclusively with them through the middle ages. They followed the top path and I followed the bottom.

Other things that will get you faster finish dates are prebuilds. If you're playing for a diplomatic victory, you want to start a prebuild for the UN before you actually get fission. You estimate how long it will take to build in the city you select and start a palace accordingly. When you get fission, you switch the palace to the UN. If there are scientific civs in the game, you can attempt to gift them into the modern age and hope one of them gets fission. If you have a sufficient amount of gold income you might be able to buy it and achieve your victory even sooner. This type of deal requires a lot more planning as you have to start your prebuild a few turns sooner, and then slow it down if you don't get Fission from the AI. Slow down prebuild by irrigating mines or making specialist and starving down. You may have to drop new cities in the palace prebuild cities radius to take away workable tiles.

Prebuilds work for space race too. While you're trading tech with the AI, you should have prebuilds going for the various pieces. There's a lot of wonders in the modern age to let you prebuild more than one piece at a time.
 
Actually, no. Offa has indeed become visually impared. :) It looks like it is in Rotterdam: cow city, dead center of the island.

I am guessing he jumped it there from his initial spice-capitol location at some point, because I don't see Amsterdam.
 
Indeed, now why didn't I check? :wallbash: Moreover since I did the same thing myself and only got 'Amsterdam' just before the city names started to be 'New somethingorother'. Utrecht is my capital, which is rather nice, since I live there!
 
I have just started playing C3C and have a question.
In this Cotm I attacked the Spanish city with the Statue of Zeus with trebuchets and the wonder got destroyed. Destroying a wonder with bombardment never happened to me in PTW. Is this a new feature in C3C? Or is this a feature of COTM?
To be honest, I did not like it a bit, I was looking forward to getting the ancient cavs.
 
Shevek said:
In this Cotm I attacked the Spanish city with the Statue of Zeus with trebuchets and the wonder got destroyed. Destroying a wonder with bombardment never happened to me in PTW. Is this a new feature in C3C? Or is this a feature of COTM?
Did Spain also have The Great Wall? There is a known bug in C3C which makes it possible for bombardment to destroy wonders when used against the Civ with The Great Wall :(
 
SirPleb, thanks - and yes they did have the great Wall indeed.
Oh well [shrug], can't be helped. At least I got the Great Wall out of it.
 
SirPleb said:
Did Spain also have The Great Wall? There is a known bug in C3C which makes it possible for bombardment to destroy wonders when used against the Civ with The Great Wall :(

Add that to the Tech Rate bug and it makes you wonder why Firaxis consider 1.22 to be the final version of C3C!

Neil. :cool:
 
eldar said:
Add that to the Tech Rate bug and it makes you wonder why Firaxis consider 1.22 to be the final version of C3C!

Neil. :cool:

Tech rate bug?
 
dojoboy said:
Tech rate bug?

Yep - tech research rates are set as if for a Huge map in C3C. Means techs are a lot more expensive to research, expecially early on.

Neil. :cool:
 
The tech rate bug is only for COTM1.

The Blowing up Wonders bug (and the submarine bug, etc) is in all C3C games.
 
denyd said:
The tech rate bug is only for COTM1.

The Blowing up Wonders bug (and the submarine bug, etc) is in all C3C games.

Thought so. :)
 
This really was an exercise in lateral thinking. At the end of the ancient age I was thinking that I had probably made the most of an early free palace jump, and was busy colonising the western end of the island.

Plan A - at the end of the ancient age
Get a couple of cities on the mainland,
Wait until chivalry
Upgrade and attack with combined arms of swiss mercenaries, knights, and catapults
I’m in republic so I need to fight short wars as I only have 1 Lux and can’t trade for any more.
If I got lucky, I could take out Madrid, force their capital further north and star to consolidate their land. In the process I should set off a golden age from a counter attack on one of the swiss. Then cavalry…, then the continent!!!
I lacked both luck and any coherent execution of this perfectly reasonable plan.

The execution

Well the first bit went well, got 2 cities on the peninsula west of Madrid. Stacked up the catpults there, with couple of swiss each, and started upgrading to trebuchets and producing more knights.

The mistakes

1) when I tried to upgrade the horsemen I couldn’t – then realised that the iron couldn’t get there as there was no coastal route to the harbour that spain wasn’t blocking.

2) I decided not to bother taking the horses back to upgrade, and instead build more knights, and bring them in direct from the southern peninsula.

3) I decide that 8 trebuchets, 2 swiss and 6 horses would be enough. with a knight being produced every turn supporting from the south.

The bad luck
1) Trebuchets don’t do much damage, horsemen get wiped out, Counter attack from Ancient cavalry (oops another miscalculation) doesn’t set off a great age as they retreat. – decide discretion is the better part of valour… and bravely run away.
2) France and England both declare war on me. Spain lets them through and they have a go at the cities. Still no GA.

Good luck

I get a French city when I ask for peace

More bad luck

The English take it off me before I can rush a defender

The worse luck

The city on the peninsula (including 6 healing units and 10 trebuchets) flips to Spain

Somewhere in all of this I have also trashed my reputation. (but only with one continent)

Snatching (victory?) from the jaws of failure.

It took about a week thinking away from the keyboard, and just looking at the position without moving a unit for me to work out what to do. Its obvious in hindsight, but not a method I usually play.

“the white smoke rose from the chimney.

A silence fell as the scribes and wise men waited for the grand proclamation.

“The dutch are no longer a warrior nation. Other nations are entitled to their homelands. We are the only nation that knows both continents and we should make use of that. We are a wise nation. No one else knows as much as us. We will sell our knowledge and use the money to research more. We will find a way to get off this planet and journey to the stars”

and a lone voice at the back said “I think we had better go for Astronomy then to find out where these star things are”.

And so it was the dutch took the world for every GPT they had, funded science at 100% for most of the rest of the middle ages, building libraries, universities, Copernicus and Newton’s. We were getting a new tech every 4 or 5 years throughout that period. The Inca were the closest competition but at the start of the Industial age I was debating whether I wanted to trade them Physics for 85GPT, or 50GPT plus economics.

I have never played for a space victory before… ever. I have read enough in SG to know that I will need to build the UN and not hold a vote, and prebuild for the spaceship parts. So wish me luck,.
 
This is my first attempt at a game of the month. I did the Open class as I usually win on Monarch level if I have a good starting location. I've made so many mistakes its frightening. I researched for cavalry while building knights out the wazoo. I got there before anyone else and was ready to upgrade and unleash hell and woops, WHERES THE SALTPETER? lol.

I figured a war with Egypt I could grab their city next to saltpeter, ally with the Zulu and have them drive the egypt back (the city with saltpeter was isolated in middle of zulu land). I miscalculated and beat down the defenses of the saltpeter city and Zulu walked right in between my turns :( Reinforcements arrive and I betray the Zulu only to get pounded :(

Mutual Protections kick in and I'm at war with the Spanish. Was ready for that, trade for saltpeter from the mayan, ugrade my cavalry, and watch them be fairly useless against riflemen defense :(

I can't keep up in tech, and am still going militarily. I don't know how or if I'm going to win, but I've definitely learned a few things.

-Skywacker
 
Predator

2nd spoiler post for me, continued from here.

As usual, true to my motto "Make Techs Not War", I've been spending the middle ages with all attention focused on scientific discoveries, and tried to keep military spending to an absolute minimum.

This meant that the Dutch went for the top part of the scientific tree first, with education of course being a key tech for universities, though for me the discovery of Astronomy was of even more importance. With only 1 tech for ourselves, like I suppose we all have had problems with this game, maintaining happiness was a huge drain on income/scientific output, with 20% luxury tax at times being required at least.
Since I had decided not to go for the GL, my only option of getting trades online was heading deep into the tech tree as fast as possible, originally I had hoped one of the AIs with a lux to trade would have built the Lighthouse, allowing at least one lux to be traded, but to my amazement, as can be read in the first spoiler thread as well, the AIs apparently all felt the same way, with several wonders reaching completion but none of the cascades resulting in the Great Lighthouse, nor even a nation starting to build it. :(
Not sure if I made a mistake with this, since I do feel the Lighthouse is very expensive for its limited abilities.

However, as said, it did mean quite a lot of unhappiness, so when I noticed that the civs that I contacted the latest (Zulu, Egypt, Maya) were continuously lagging behind, and were looking rather feeble, combined with the fact that they were lightyears away via ocean connections, I decided I would abandon them as research partners. By gifting the Zulu some key technology, and then declaring war on them (resulting in a "cautious/war" relation with them :crazyeye: ), I hoped they would use their tech advantage to bribe one of the other two nations in against me, as the resulting free happiness would be of immense value.
And as could be expected with the Zulu, they did not do anything to help me, once again resulting in them thwarting one of my plans, though this time in a totally different fashion than their usual sneak attack routine. :(

Maybe because of the lack of resource partners, I only got the AI to research Feudalism and Engineering for me, and fortunately, as I had already anticipated that the AI might be a bit slow with building harbours themselves, I had created my own connection to the other continent near the incense SW of Madrid, rushing a harbour there to get the first lux online, and signing a ROP to get two of my own men in to connect ivory for Spain (they had miraculously roaded around the ivory so far) and create a land route with France. At this moment, they are still improving the land there, hoping to boost the AIs research potential:

workers.jpg


So later in the age, when finally magnetism became a known concept and ocean trade was enabled, I made peace again with the Zulu, almost getting a city from them in the deal, though I had not done anything to make them feel uncomfortable about the war, trading some wines with them and getting a connection with my furs-city in the far east, introducing lux 6 and 7 to Holland, resulting in an end to happiness problems. Lux 8 is still out of reach, since Maya refuses to build a harbour.. :cry:

Finally, with Cop. Obs in Amsterdam giving the final boost for the tech rate to be continued at 4/tech, the industrial age was entered in 250 AD:

cotm02_250AD.jpg


cotm_250ADminimap.jpg


Interesting tidbit: France has finally started building the Great Lighthouse in 190 AD, the latest date I've ever seen I think, and a bit too late to be of any help now...

And to finalize this spoiler, a question for DaveMcW, regarding the pic you posted of your empire, I notice almost all cities being run by the governor, and I was wondering whether there is there some special reasoning behind this, as usually the governor is regarded as not very useful for city managing, or so I believe...?
 
Kemal said:
By gifting the Zulu some key technology, and then declaring war on them (resulting in a "cautious/war" relation with them :crazyeye: ), I hoped they would use their tech advantage to bribe one of the other two nations in against me, as the resulting free happiness would be of immense value.
Could you explain how getting the Zulus to ally with another Civ agianst you leads to free happiness? Not sure I understand how that would work.
 
Hmm, well I supposed it would work, since usually when civs declare war on me without provokation I end up with reversed WW... but in about 99% of my cases that is due to a rejected demand or a sneak attack, which of course always leads to free happiness. I have never really checked if this also works if they declare war on you when allying with a rival civ (actually, due to the desperate luxury situation on our continent, I made this tactic up when playing), and since it didn't work, I'm afraid I can't tell you whether it would have yielded positive results.

I hoped it would is all I can say, really. :)
 
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