COTM 05 Spoiler2: Entering the Industrial Age

[Darkness]

I didn't find any goody huts and I don't know how SirPleb find 7.

But I win and happy with it.
I slightly lose to Florian K and Darkness with 11910 Jason (170AD Domination).

IIRC SirPleb played open (he probably thought the AAC was challenge enough).
Maybe you played predator? (I also played predator and I did't find any huts either)

So, you beat my domination date. That's OK, 'cause you didn't beat my score...
I wasn't going to win the fastest domination award anyway (would be fun to get my third bronze medal though... )

 

[solenoozerec]

IIRC SirPleb played open (he probably thought the AAC was challenge enough).
Maybe you played predator? (I also played predator and I did't find any huts either)

I played Open, I found only one goody hut (not like I needed it, though).
And I did not get any GLs during entire game.
So I guess it is a some kind of RNG fluctuations.

 

[Civgeek]

I played Open, I found only one goody hut (not like I needed it, though).
And I did not get any GLs during entire game.
So I guess it is a some kind of RNG fluctuations.

I played Open; 4 GH, 1 GL (on last turn). I'm starting to see the point people make about why turn off SGL if MGL can be so variable (and have a big impact if you are going for a conquest or domination victory) anyway.

 

[Xevious]

I played Open, I found only one goody hut (not like I needed it, though).
And I did not get any GLs during entire game.
So I guess it is a some kind of RNG fluctuations.

I also played open, had 2 goody huts, both late (one just before QSC end for Polytheism and the other later for maps.). I had 2 great leaders, both made armys, both were pretty late (1 versus India, 1 versus Celts just before domination). I also had no GA. I completely forgot to trigger it!

I turned off research after Chivalry, until I saw how entrenched the Celts were, being on hills and having the Great Wall. I was up to Chemistry I think when I ended up winning by Domination in 500AD. My fastest win, and highest Jason (11k+, also first over 10k). Of course this month that is subpar.

Some interesting things: I built the TOA myself and was just amazed at how quick it fills in all the little gaps. Rome built the Statue of Zeus just before I took it which was an unexpected surprise. I only got to use the ancient cav once though, as it came too late in the game.

 

[eldar]

I don't remember my GH count - the most memorable was a city far north of Rome, that I abandoned before they could walk all over it. A shame, because it was close to the horses by the tundra, and would've been handy. I think maybe 1 or 2 techs other than that.

My GL luck was better, I got 4 (all Cav armies, too), and built a 5th that I shipped to Carthage. I built another 2 armies to disband for 100 shields a pop (I could have had 1 Army for 100 shields, or 4 Cavs for 80 shields, in 16 turns; 100 vs 80 in the same time wasn't a contest).

[Edit]
If you put a unit in an Army, and disband it, do you get the correct value in shields? I.e. if it's a Cav Army with 1 Cav in it, do you get 120 shields disbanding it (100 from the Army, 20 from the Cav)? That's an entire Colosseum, or a good chunk of Cathedral, and moves six times faster!

Neil.

 

[solenoozerec]

(11k+, also first over 10k).

I am wondering how many people did it over 10K in this game for a first time. After I submitted my game and sow my score (almost 11.5K) I was looking on it with sincere disbelief . I never did it over 10K before and I haven’t seen many people making it over 11K.
Now I am sure that many people beat their records in COTM4 and I think it will be a fluctuation in AlanH’s statistics.
It was an exceptionally easy game... suggesting something opposite in the nearest future .

 

[jeffelammar]

If you put a unit in an Army, and disband it, do you get the correct value in shields? I.e. if it's a Cav Army with 1 Cav in it, do you get 120 shields disbanding it (100 from the Army, 20 from the Cav)? That's an entire Colosseum, or a good chunk of Cathedral, and moves six times faster!

I disbanded an army late in GOTM 35, and only got the 100, despite it being populated by Swordsmen. So it looks like the 20 from the Cav would be lost in your situation.

I haven't tried in C3C, but I don't think it has changed.

 

[Butzull]

Thanks for the help AlanH and Darkness, I was hoping to rerun the victory parade because I rushed through it, but it's not a big deal. I also needed to go look up the submission method, but was saved that, thanks.

As I mentioned, I kinda drifted through and should have finished it much sooner, but played very over-cautious. My submitted stats were:

(Playing Conquest level, I'll go open from now on).
1690AD Domination Victory
Firaxis: 2969
Jason: 5310
Time: 24:38:50

Pretty poor numbers I know, but it was actually only the second game I've ever played through to completion, my first [C/G]OTM and I really enjoyed it. I REALLY look forward to the analysis now, and the next game.

Butz. groucho

P.S. One more quick question, having never played higher than Regent, I started a PTW Emperor game as England last night as a practice for the next GOTM, I'm not doing too terribly but am at a crossroads of sorts. Which is the right forum to upload the save file into to get an expert or two to look at it and offer suggestions about how best to proceed?

 

[Grogs]

Open

My middle ages started out peacefully enough, beginning in 730 BC. Due to a research SNAFU, I didn't pick up Monarchy until I traded feudalism for it. I decided to wait until I had completed my anarchy (5 turns) before invading the Aztecs. The Incan nation became a monarchy in 290 BC.

The Aztec war: Immediately after becoming a monarchy, I declared war on the Aztecs. It was slow going at first with only swords slogging through the mountains and marshes. In 190 BC, I captured Tenochtitlan. They had finished the Pyramids only 2 turns before, and my growth took off like a rocket from that point on. In 130 AD, we signed peace with the Aztecs, leaving them with only 1 city. Two turns later in 150 AD my workers completed the road bringing horses into my empire. The age of the knight is here! (I should note that since I discovered chivalry and hooked up horses at virtually the same time I never produced a single horseman.)

The Celtic War: As the war with the Aztecs wound down, I was trying to decide who to attack next. When I got a message that the Celts had completed the Temple of Artemis in Entremont, my decision was made for me.

The war was slow going at first, since no knights had reached the frontier yet. War with the Celts is declared in 330 AD. The first swordsman to attack in the war scores a Great Leader and an army of MI is born. In 430, the MI army takes Entremont, capturing the ToA. Unfortunately, I can't get supporting troops there fast enough and two turns later it deposes me and takes my army with it. It takes a few turns, but the oncoming wave of knights, spearheaded by a shiny new knight army retakes the city and slowly grinds the Celts under their hooves. I also managed to get my Golden Age in 530 AD on about the 7th try with a Chasquai Scout. The last Celt city was taken in 690 AD and I turned my sights to the Western end of the continent.

The war that wasn't: In 630 AD, a Carthagenian warrior was wandering by my knight army as it was mopping up the last of the Celts and decided to attack. He was the only ground invasion force I saw from them for the rest of the game. I payed the Japanese 250g for an alliance, captured the one Carthagenian city near my empire, and ignored them for the rest of the game. It was fun watching the Samurai raze Carthagenian cities though.

In 660 AD, I redeclared on the Aztecs, finishing the remainder of their empire in only 4 turns.

In 680 AD, I finished researching Military Tradition and turned research off for the rest of the game. I also set my lux slider to 100%. I finished Sun Tsu's in 700 and all of my knights were upgraded to cavalry.

The Greco-Indian-Roman War: For the sake of speed, I decided to open a 2nd front to attack the Greeks, sending forces West into Greece that would eventually meet my Northern forces attacking through India and Rome. In 710 AD, I declared war on Greece and India with my freshly upgraded cavalry and 2 knight armies leading the charge. The Indians went down quickly, but the Greeks put up some spirited resistance around Athens and it took about 4 turns for my cav to take it. Once India was destroyed, my northern forces invaded Rome while the Southern ones carved up the remaining Greek cities. The 2 forces linked up along the Greco-Roman border. Two more GL's were spawned during this time, producing 2 cavalry armies.

In 860 AD, only 2 Roman cities remained and their half-dozen or so defenders were facing 80 or so cavalry and 4 armies closing in on them. I reached the domination limit on that turn, just as Mapstat/Civassist suggeted.

Final Results:

Entry class: open
Game status: Domination Victory for Inca
Game date: 860 AD
Firaxis score: 4916
Jason score: 9984
Time played: 33:00:58

This being my first COTM, I'm pleased with the results, and just by the fact I won the game (I think this month's GOTM at Emperor level might not turn out so well.) I found the hardest thing to do (for me) was to start my GA. My strategy was to rush a Chasquai Scout near the front lines and have it attack a wounded archer/horseman/warrior. It took about 7 tries to win a battle even with this strategy. I think the RNG was a little nicer to me on other things though. I produced 5 MGL's and popped 4 GH's (only 1 tech though, and some nice maps.)

All in all a fun game and I'm looking forward to the next one.

 

[Darkness]

P.S. One more quick question, having never played higher than Regent, I started a PTW Emperor game as England last night as a practice for the next GOTM, I'm not doing too terribly but am at a crossroads of sorts. Which is the right forum to upload the save file into to get an expert or two to look at it and offer suggestions about how best to proceed?

Either the civ3-general discussions, or the civ3-strategies&tips subforum will do just fine...

 

[Don Vito]

... suggesting something opposite in the nearest future .

agree on that

 

[DJMGator13]

Link to my AA post

Acquiring Horses and developing a supply line
I kick of the Middle Ages by capturing Athens and a supply of horses. I also met the Carts on the same turn, 570BC. Greece enters the MA 1 turn later and I get report of massive uprising. Between the barb horses, healing my swords and producing horses I capture 3 Greek cities and raze one before making peace with them for monotheism in 270BC, leaving Greece with 3 unconnected cities.

I take 14 turns to learn Chivalry in 30BC and build horses during this time. Unfortunately when I learn Chivalry I only have enough money to upgrade 6 horses on the first turn. I now split my forces into 2 main attack groups and send a bunch of workers with each group to road a supply line and connect up the cities.

I issue DOW on Rome in 10AD and issue a DOW on the Aztecs in 30AD. My Northern attack force will eventually capture all of Rome, eliminate the Greeks and press on to India.

The Eastern attack force goes after the Aztecs. I build a couple of jump cities to minimize the number of mountain and jungle tiles that need roads. The Eastern Highway (highlighted in red in the above picture) becomes my main conduit for troop movement for the rest of the game.

Golden Age
I get a Cscout victory over a 1/3 Impi in 50AD and decide to try to push my tech pace during my GA. I learn Engineering in 170AD, Invention in 270AD and Gunpowder in 330AD. Once my GA ends I slow down research after seeing that I can win the game with my Knights. The GA shield bonus has also helped to increase my troop strength from 9 swords, 17 horses and only 7 knights to 5 swords, 12 horses and 42 knights

Back to the War
In 110AD I issue the final DOW on Greece and in 130AD I capture the Pyramids from the Aztecs. In 230AD I capture the Roman’s second source of Ivory rendering their SoZ useless. I eliminate the Greeks in 270AD. In 290AD I capture the city of Rome with the SoZ and the Oracle. In 310AD I complete the Knight Templar on my SW coast about as far from the front lines as possible. Other than killing a few barbs I think I only use 1 Crusader in a real battle in the entire game.

In 320AD I issue DOW on India and issue DOW on Celts in 330AD when they try to slip a settler pair thru my front lines. In 350AD I eliminate the Aztecs and in 360AD I capture my first Celtic city and their only source of iron. In 380AD the city of Rome deposes back to the Romans, I recapture it along with their last 2 cities and eliminate Rome. Prior to this date I had started moving part of my Northern attack group to the East to battle India’s northern cities.

400AD sees me capture the Great Library from the Celts. I actually learn a Republic from it but I do not revolt. Monarchy will see me thru this game just fine. I’ve also been building some galleys and I now have 5 galleys near the narrowing of the pangea map, in the middle of Celtic lands, they should get to Japan before my knights do. In 410AD I capture the Colossus from India. In 420AD Calcutta deposes back to India, I retake it on the same turn. Flips are starting to be annoying, in 440AD Alesia flips back to the Celts so I recapture and raze it, along with razing 2 other Celt cities that same turn. I keep Richborough as part of my highway system. In 460AD I learn my last tech of the game Chemistry and completely shut off research at this point.

460AD also saw my first Great Leader of the game, after capturing over half of the map. I also capture MOM that turn. In 490AD I issue DOW on Japan killing a settler pair. I eliminate the Celts and India in 500AD.

540AD saw my first Army victory as well as a DOW on Carthage. In 570AD I capture Kyoto and the TOA. I have cut off research prior to this point so that the Temple would continue to work when I captured it. In 580AD I capture Satsuma and the Great Lighthouse and I generate my second great leader. I use this to create my second Knight Army which proceeds to lose to a veteran pike the very next turn .

End of Game (A Mistake )
In 610AD I have 57 cities, which have not culturally expanded. Since I captured the TOA a few turns ago they will all expand next turn. Using MapStat I see that I control 749 tiles and need 616 tiles for Domination victory. I capture the final two Japanese cities this turn, leaving only Carthage in the game.

In 620AD all 57 of the cities expand and a gain 590 tiles taking my totals to 1339 owned. This is where I think I messed up. I had been planning on going for a Conquest victory but by capturing TOA I am now only 26 tiles from a Domination victory. I capture Oea and have 3 more cities set to expand next turn. Now I’m only 6 tiles short in 630AD so I capture Theveste and trigger a Domination victory in 640AD.

I now have 20 knights on the Carthage island and I think I could have finished them off in less than 10 turns, so I’m wondering did I mess up gaining a 640AD Dom versus say a 720AD conquest? I scored a Jason of 10468 for the Dom victory, and I haven’t seen an early 700AD conquest score yet.

 

[jeffelammar]

I now have 20 knights on the Carthage island and I think I could have finished them off in less than 10 turns, so I’m wondering did I mess up gaining a 640AD Dom versus say a 720AD conquest? I scored a Jason of 10468 for the Dom victory, and I haven’t seen an early 700AD conquest score yet.

No idea if you messed up on the scoring. One way you could have avoided the domination win would have been to abandon a few cities. The corrupt ones weren't really needed, so you could have either abandoned the TOA or just a few of the other cities.
Nicely played BTW.

 

[denyd]

The Celts may have the Oracle and Colossus, while the Aztecs have built the Pyramids for me, but I have the Temple of Artemis and will soon have the Hanging Gardens thought Mursilis. At the dedication for the Hanging Gardens, Mursilis was informed of additional wonders (The Great Lighthouse in Japan and Statue of Zeus in Rome) being completed around the world..

The Japanese Ambassador entered proudly and sat in front of Mursilis. What had been anticipated as a friendly trading session, escalated into a shouting match when the Ambassador demanded a gift of furs and soon the exiting diplomat slammed a declaration of war from Japan upon his desk. “I’m not really ready for a war with Japan at this point, get me the Celtic Ambassador, I think it’s time we added an ally to this war” Mursilis said to his aide and for the price of Feudalism the Celts would serve as a roadblock to Japanese ground forces. At least with the Great Wall in Entremont, the Celts should be able to defend against those Samurai.

At the celebration of the Forbidden Palace dedication, his Foreign Minister AlanH approached Pachacuti (as he was now known) and informed him that the new embassy in Athens had reported bad news, the Greeks were going to finish the War Academy before the Incans. With a deep sigh, Pachacuti ordered the workmen to reshape the building as a Knights Templar and he then hurried to Cuzco for the Leonardo’s Workshop dedication.

The General entered his office with the requested plans and soon the Incan War Machine would begin advancing northward on the Aztecs. The Incan ruler had been careful to claim all of the available military resources and had kept his neighbor somewhat backward in science, so the Incan troops would have a decided edge in both quality of equipment and numbers. With only spearmen to defend them, the first three Aztec cities fell to the Incan MDI attackers with much of a struggle. As the troops fended off yet another Aztec Archer unit, the first great hero of the Incan Republic, Tupa Inca provided unparalleled leadership and was given command of a Crusader Army. That army soon led the successful siege of Tenochititlan with the Pyramids as a bonus prize for the victory. The end of the alliance with the Celts signaled time for the war with Japan to end and a trifling of 15 gold was received from Japan for the inconvenience caused.. With the conquest of two more Aztec cities and a third gained in the peace negotiations, the Aztecs were left as a city-state.

For the next couple of months Pachacuti kept busy with peaceful affair like the dedications of the Heroic Epic, Military Academy and the Sistine Chapel. The Indians to the north held a monopoly on silks and Pachacuti ordered his generals to begin planning to remedy that situation.

The first Indian war was brief with only the capture of Bombay with three silk sources as a highlight. When an Indian War Elephant defeated an Incan Musket, Pachacuti decided to wait for the end of the Indian Golden Age to continue this war.

At the opening ceremony for Copernicus’ Observatory, Pachacuti announced the beginning of the Golden Age of the Inca. Science that had been plodding along at a constant pace, suddenly moved to a fever pitch. The economy, buoyed by the completion of Smith’s Trading Post was booming and just for kicks, Pachacuti had his military acquire the last Aztec city, removing any revolution chances. With the discovery on Magnetism, the Incan Republic reached the Industrial age in 960 AD. After gifting 6 technologies to Greece to get them into the Industrial Age with the Inca, Pachacuti ordered his scientists to begin work on steam power, to be used as a bargaining chip for Greek Nationalism.

The future looks bright for the Incan people, with Newton’s University nearly complete and at the top of most demographics, land, population, economy and production, and having the most powerful military on the planet. The conquest of the Indian and Celtic peoples is soon to begin and then either the hated Japanese or the Romans with their ivory will complete the conquest phase of Pachacuti’s stay on the planet as a rocket ship ride is at the top of his list of things to do.

 

[klarius]

@DJMGator13
You probably did not mess up.
I have the impression from the scores I read that the domination Jason best date is much to high for this map.
This may have to do with the fact that the agricultural trait is taken into account in max score, but not correctly in the growth rate.
Also the effect of ToA is probably not factored in.

The conquest best date may or may not be more realistic.

 

[Civgeek]

I now have 20 knights on the Carthage island and I think I could have finished them off in less than 10 turns, so I’m wondering did I mess up gaining a 640AD Dom versus say a 720AD conquest? I scored a Jason of 10468 for the Dom victory, and I haven’t seen an early 700AD conquest score yet.

I scored 10,408 for a 1010 AD conquest with about 64% of the domination limit, so I'd imagine you would have scored higher than your 10,468 if you had stopped capturing cities around 64-65% (allowing for expansion) and just gone for a 720 AD conquest. May be 11,000?

 

[DJMGator13]

@Civgeek - When I finished and read your results that is when I started to think that I had messed up. If the conquest best date is way after the domination best date then I did mess up. But with this map if the conquest and domination best dates are close to each other then it would not have mattered. One of the games I looked back on there was a 300 year difference between conquest and domination best dates. Based on your score I think it was a mistake though.

 

[solenoozerec]

so I’m wondering did I mess up gaining a 640AD Dom versus say a 720AD conquest? I scored a Jason of 10468 for the Dom victory, and I haven’t seen an early 700AD conquest score yet.

It wouldn’t help you to figure it.
Score does not depend only on dates. It is also territory and the amount of happy and content citizens. If someone kept a small empire and finished by conquest at 700AD, his score will be lower than yours.
In order to figure out whether you did a right decision, you need a post from someone who was close to domination like you, but win the game by conquest at the similar date.
There are two weeks before submission, so may be someone will post.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

If you put a unit in an Army, and disband it, do you get the correct value in shields? I.e. if it's a Cav Army with 1 Cav in it, do you get 120 shields disbanding it (100 from the Army, 20 from the Cav)? That's an entire Colosseum, or a good chunk of Cathedral, and moves six times faster!

No, you always get 100 shields for an Army, whether empty, or filled with 4 Modern Armors
Was quite disappointed when I noticed that first...

 

[horragoth]

Ancient Times

I have entered the MT with a good tech lead. I decided to pursue Diplovictory this time, maintaining fast tech pace essential. However, there was only one scientific civ and all civs proved unusually incompetent researching techs, I decided not to push Greeks into MT and not to give anybody techs for free. This allowed me to forfeit researching techs not needed for era change, including Chivalry.
My research path was Feudalism, Engineering and rest of compulsory lower branch, hoping that someone will help me with the upper (which did not happen).
In 230 BC, time has come to make some military expansion. I assembled some 10 MIs and conquered larger part of Greece, starting my GA in 70BC. I did not finished them off in case I would needed their scientific trait later.
Meanwhile I had established trade with Carthage getting 3 luxuries for Furs and a tech. I renewed that trade every 20 turns until the game end.
In 250 I decided I am strong enough to grab some more land and nearly conquered Aztecs in 350AD. The war generated 3 GL from some 15 Elite victories, which was good, but considering the impossibility of rushing wonders I had a limited use for them. The 1st hurried FP in Tenochitlan, second made victorious army and 3rd hurried university in Machu Picchu, where Copernicus had just been built and Newton's was built later.
I had also grabbed some land on Indians, but generally concentrated to have all citizens happy and research fast. Medieval times were over in 610 AD.