COTM 27 - second spoiler

ainwood

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COTM 27 Second spoiler



Reading requirements
  1. Requires that you have reached the start of the industrial age (or have finished your game prior to this).
  2. Requires that you have all contacts and a full world map.

Posting restrictions
  1. Please do not post any screenshots of industrial age (or later) resources.



Please note: Given the previous poor(er) participation in spoiler 2, I am delaying spoiler 3 until the 15th. I am still trying to get the balance right - please make your comments on that in this thread - should we have only two spoilers? Should we have 3, but spread on the 5th, 10th & 15th? Or should we maintain 3 (with two released on the 10th)?
 
Open

Ancient age

Entered MA in 670BC. Germany got feudalism. I research engineering hoping to be able to get both feudalism and monotheism in trade.
I continued the war diplomacy on the other continent, so had also a war with Japan in 570BC.
But I made also peace with Zulu in the same year so still had only 5 wars ;).

The real war with Rome went pretty slow. By 190BC I captured their last city.
But they had a settler out on the southern island.
They settled and I knew. I would have to come with quite a force, because they get their starting units again. That wasn't worth it for this village, so I made peace in 150BC and turned towards Germany.
Still our first rider found a lose Roman in 170BC and we got a golden age.
I could indeed get mono and feud for engineering and also bought chivalry with 1 turn to go. I stopped research for now and concentrated on military and settlers.
War with Germany started 150BC.
It took until 30BC until Berlin was captured (with Oracle).
In 10AD we got Leipzig with ToA, so our empire is now pretty happy and I will try to finish this w/o theology to keep the Oracle in effect.
Last German city fell in 150AD and Germany is really gone. We got also Hanging Gardens and Knight's Templar.
I had also found some spare troops to finish of Rome in 90AD.

170AD we start on Aztecs. They had already taken quite a beating from Vikings, so they didn't have many troops.
By 330AD they are down to 1 remote town and we make peace to continue with Mongols.
A small complication is that Zulus declared in 230AD. They have a lot troops and disturb my efforts against the weak Aztecs and Mongols a lot. They don't have any other war and my reputation is totally down the drain so nobody allies with me (not even for 300gpt + tech).
Mongols down to one city in 420AD.
We could also make peace with Zulu in the meantime, so we only have 1 war left currently that's Vikings.
I had started science again in 330AD after buying Gunpowder, so from 460AD we have cavalry in our army. But that was probably overkill, because nobody had saltpeter.
We make good progress and in 520AD we capture Trondheim with the Lighthouse and finally connect our empire and have 8 luxes everywhere.

Domination is pretty near already. I could do it by just settling the holes in my empire. But I prefer to capture a few more cities, including another Mongol one and get a domination victory in 570AD.
klarius_c27_m.gif


@Ainwood: I think two spoilers are enough given the low number of posts. And I would still recommend to open both early, so we don't miss literacy masterpieces because a fast player has already forgotten what he did.
 
I look at Klarius' game in envy. :goodjob:

I entered Middle Ages 150AD only and traded for monotheism, feudalism, engineering.

340AD I bought theology from Germany, traded it to Aztecs for chivalry, got invention from Mongols for theology, chivalry; many AIs already had gunpowder. China starts building riders.

War on Rome was declared 480AD and stepwise the Roman empire was assimilated. Germany served as an ally. All the time Otto was strong compared to us and this looked like the best way to keep peace with him.

In the 2nd half of the Middle Ages, China took the tech leadership in researching physics. From now on, AI gpt significantly supported our research.

In 730AD we learn magnetism, sell it for 640g, 105gpt to Zulu and for tog, 300g, 63gpt to Vikings. Industrial Times start with researching steam. Rome is removed from the 770AD and we make peace with Caesar to get rid of significant war weariness.
 
I'm doing pretty well, 2-3 techs behind now, have steam. I'm doing a ToE prebuild and crossing my fingers I can still pull that off. Deity is still new to me so this is a bit of a struggle, but I'm pleased. Probably will pull a rush and finish off Germany once I have rails connecting near and far...
 
Was conquered in 890 AD by Roman cavalries.

Rome declared early on me which I survived pretty well, even destroyed 1 town.
Then Germany declared on me. After a very long war, I fought them down to 1 city. But that war costed me so much in terms of development that I had no chance afterwards. Sadly the town with SoZ flipped back to Germany after the turn we made peace. Should have redeclared directly.
Had bad luck with my ships, they sank. Took a long time til I finally had met everyone.
 
Since I posted part of my of my game already on this thread, I might as well update on the rest of the story... BTW, currently my game is in the early Modern Age. Based on the descriptions given in these threads, I shouldn't post anything here from Industrial or on, but I shouldn't post anything in the final thread unless I was finished with the game... Am I correct in posting info in the thread, prior to finishing my game, as long as I avoid any spoilerish info??? :hmm:

Anyhow, after my long-delayed fight for the starting continent really got going in the 700's AD I quickly ripped through the Germans and the Romans. Neither posed much of a military challenge, weakened by centuries of war with each other. Consolidating the continent apart from one annoyingly well-defended Aztec outpost went quite smoothly, and I entered the IA far ahead in land/pop/score and near parity in tech.

Politically, the Aztec and Zulu had anhilated the other continent's civs except for a token Viking player. The Aztec and Zulu managed to balance each quite nicely, engaging in numerous see-sawing wars that I facilited by MPP from across the ocean. However, both civs had developed too many rifleman to allow my current military level to compete with (the little outpost on my island alone had 5-6 veteran rifleman + calvary :mad: It later culture flipped to me though ;) ) I needed far more artillery units before that would happen. It was frusterating realizing that the military initiative had been lost by my slow early play:blush:, but little to change at this point other than to let China's superior economy take back the advantage. I set about to building artillery and infantry, and expanding a toehold that I had gained on the other land mass due to razed territory.

I quickly built an overwhelming military that probably could have easily taken the necessary land for domination 50 turns earlier than I when started doing so in the Modern Age. But I decided to spend extra time tinkering around with my economic settings (and my newly downloaded Civ Assist II) and also to enjoy some modern warfare (it's been a while, and the units really are quite awesome. ;) )

A few thoughts/questions/observations:

Governments:
What really struck me in this game is the productive powerhouse in Conquests that is Communism. The OCN is huge, the immediate GPT boost when switching from Monarchy was about 120, not to mention the incredible boost in productivity in so many of the outlying cities. I had 64 cities on the mainland once post-conquest, and Monarchy over half were experienceing 90% corruption, even with a nicely placed FP. With communism, I never had a city over 40% corruption. Combined with the Hoover Dam (and factories), the boost in production was breathtaking.

My prior experience with Communism had always been that the trade in increased outlying production was not enough to offset the corruption increase in the inner core. My last game before the COTM was a archipelago domination victory where I had switched to Fascism specifically over Communism based on this bad association with socialist goverment, but in hindsight I'm sure I hindered my victory date by a large margin. I gave Communism a chance in this COTM based on articles in these forums and I 'm now a big believer in socialist goverment, at least in Civ. :crazyeye:

To be fair, according to Civ Assist a change to Democracy would have netted me slightly more GPT, even when the SPHQ was built, but the increase in unit support, lack of war weariness, and far most importantly, the shield boost makes communism the far better economic choice for this size of empire. The only drawback I experienced was not being able to rush with gold , which I find to be generally far more convenient in the latter stages of Civ.

Strategic Focus:
If I tried to pinpoint the greatest mistake I made in this game, it would be my long term strategy. The greatest advantage humans have over the AI is the ability to think longterm while remaining flexible in the tactical details of working out the strategy. In this game, I had started attempting for a domination victory, but the lack of immediate horses really threw me. Rather than change my tactics and build a killer army using slower troops, I slipped into a kind of weird semi-builder strat that lost me all early initiative and focus on my longterm goals. Moreover, as the middle and end game rolled around, while I was able to pull of a dominating empire anyways (at least on this difficulty level) I wasn't in any great position to end the game quickly. Sure, I could've hung around and won a 100K victory somewhere in the mid 20th century (quicker if I went on a building spree). Sure, I could've eventually built the spaceship or the UN, but again, nothing quick. Lastly, I really didn't have the numbers for a quick onslaught onto the other continent. So, in the future, I resolve to be far more single minded on my long term objective and far more fluid in how I tactically accomplish that goal. :old:

FP/SPHQ Values:
I know that the FP and SPHQ raise the OCN (by about 30 apiece from the OCN calculator based on the other game settings and government/civ.) What is the exact formulae for their values, or is it pretty complex?

Captured City Buildings:
Another nagging question: When capturing an AI city, what buildings are given over to the captors? I know that all cultural/small wonders are destroyed, and all Great Wonders are preserved, but what about the rest of the improvements? I'm sure a test would be easy (spy before the battle, etc.) but I'm away from my Civ game at the moment...

Last quick (honestly!) thoughts:
I got an stupid early trade rep hit with a trade deal with Mongols. Those durn AI's never forget, and they made my diplo life a big stinkin' mess. Way too much of , "well, you're offering an insanely good GPT + gold for my insignificant optional tech, but what about those Mongols 4 THOUSAND YEARS AGO???!"

Airfields/airports are a great way to quickly transport troops across continents (although empty army units/artillery can't be airdropped...:mad: )
 
My game is progressing quite nicely, but I am quite worried about the growing dominance of the Aztecs on the other continent. My plan had been to have German troops in my territory when my RoP ran out, so i could use my stack of 10 longbows to kill the 3-4 pikes in Berlin, while using Riders to knock out all the German troops wandering across to attack the Romans. When I refused the Aztecs my territory map and 20 gold, they attack, and signed Rome against me. I remembered previous experiences of war, in which the AI countered with great force, so i kept my army in my border towns for a couple of turns. When i had knocked off the 10-15 MDIs, Longbows and Knights which wandered near my cities, I quickly pushed forward and took every Roman city on the continent.This war left me with control of the Pyramids, and Astro, Banking and Gunpowder. Having learnt that Germany has no Gunpowder (or horses) they will definately get attacked in the near future.

(This is what I have done at 640 AD, over half way through the Middle Ages)

EDIT: At this point, the other continent has Mongolia killing Japan, and the Aztecs killing Scandinavia. The Zulu arent at war AFAIK.
 
Sadly I bungled the prebuild slightly and lost ToE by four turns, even though I had had the tech for about 8 turns, and wasn't about to pop a palace jump, I didn't have it complete yet and Rome snagged it. Now I am about five techs down and then they declared on me, attacking with tanks. Fortunately I had anticipated this, and constructed many barricades, so they couldn't drive deep into my terrtory in a single turn. This allowed me to leave certains cities undefended and concentrate my defenders in border cities. Unfotunately I signed an MPP with Germany and later I had signed peace when Rome attacked them triggering it. Bad decision to MPP with Germany anyway, but it was cheap. The were virtually powerless. It did keep a Roman carrier group busy though. Once they made peace with Germany, that carrier group loaded with bombers starting hitting me real hard, attacking my armies. Fortunately my strategy of attacking one of their multiple stacks each turn was effictive. I would wipe out the defenders first, then chip away at their attackers, increaing the Democratic Romans WW. After a few turns they would sign peace with about 500 gold to me. That helped pay for some upgrades.

Also I was able to realize on the turn that they would sign peace that I could attack deeper into their terriotory with CAV armies and took away two of their cities.

I will wait twenty turns and do it again, and try to shorten my border with them. I'm making tons of barricades again as well to slow their counterattack. Also all my under 7 cities on the border are walled. Walled infantry does pretty well against tanks, esp if you have some artillery backing it up. The tanks will attack until redlined and can't retreat back to home territory becuase of the barricades, and then I just wipe them out with a unit of CAV.
 
Not a real spoiler, but I have to say I have found this game to be the most difficult XOTM in a while - harder than the recent deity games have been.

I think the one little thing that made this game more difficult was that the AI researched Chemistry. Early in the Middle Ages, I knew I was behind in tech, but I was doing pointy-stick research and spending money cash-rushing military. Nobody had started Copernicus' so I thought I was not far behind.

I beat Theology and Invention out of someone - Gunpowder was fairly well-known, but only the Vikings had Education, so I figured I was close to tech parity. A few turns later, the Romans attacked me... with cavalry. I don't remember the AI ever researching Chemistry before getting things like Education and Astronomy so I was caught very unprepared for powerful 3-move units attacking from out of sight.

I did hold off Rome, and eventually neutered them thanks to leader fishing and pillaging with armies. I am currently in the Industrial Age in around 700-800 AD. Both Germany and Rome have very little left, but I have barely touched the other civs. The outcome is no longer in doubt, but the date will be awful.:sad:
 
Corwin of Amber said:
I will wait twenty turns and do it again, and try to shorten my border with them. I'm making tons of barricades again as well to slow their counterattack.

Interesting. I've never really experimented with barricades. They hold the enemy up, but do they also provide a defensive bonus to them? Or is that only available in friendly territory?
In an industrial war, I would recommend using your artillery's great reach to pulverise the enemy's border terrain, such that to reach your cities they have to drive across a strip of unroaded land. They gamely arrive just outside your towns and get shelled into the ground, and then picked off by cavalrymen. The ideal is of course that they never have the chance to attack your towns, so you can shift some production from (mortal) infantry to (immortal) artillery.
Ah, I wish I had got that far with this game... :rolleyes:
 
Open
Game status: Domination Victory for China
Game date: 860 AD
Firaxis score: 10325
Jason score: 9998
Time played: 37:34:22

Surprisingly, this game was quite a pain. I had thought researching to chivalry and being in monarchy, my Riders would do the job. :hmm:

Proved wrong it was tough to get Astronomy and Military Tradition in Monarchy without any libraries... :mad:

At least I rarely (in other Gotms) payed so little upkeep for my army - I had ~200 towns (mainly scientist farms) supporting ~150 units... :rolleyes:

Detailed log to follow...
 
Rush job finishing this before going away for 10 days with no computer :cry:

Domination 890AD

Fought Romans early to get Rome with pyramids 430BC. MGL -> AC army was very handy.
Phony war with Aztecs allying Monguls and Zulus
Barb galleys accounted for many curraghs and galleys -> late contact with Vikes and Japan
Revolted 390BC with 8 turn anarchy -> monarchy
Germany dow 250BC (they were current no 1), scary for a while. I had no horses so fought with MDIs and ACs. Took till 370AD to remove them from starting continent. At the time of dow I owed more than 100gpt.
GA starts 290AD as horses eventually conected up north after battling through barb hordes. Turned off science after chivalry for quite a while allowing shortrushes.
Immed start 2nd war against Romans who have 28 units returning from Germany on my lands - good leader bait nets a few more leaders (I think I got about 12 this game) - Rome gone from starting continent 590AD
Aztecs destroyed 480AD
Meanwhile est base on other continent and ship over a few empty armies, then all the units I can manage.
Use Monguls and Japs as shield between me and megapower Zulus (they have assimilated all Vike and Aztec land) as I get them to dow after boot order (naturally owing them some 200gpt) 550AD
Mil trad comes in ahead of rest 590AD -> push throw Zulus getting ToA in Zimbabwe 730AD and wiping out Zulu 780AD
Immed dow Japan again allying Monguls, getting most of theis cities before dom limit arrives 890AD
 
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