COTM69 - Final Spoiler

civ_steve

Deity
GOTM Staff
Retired Moderator
Joined
Mar 25, 2002
Messages
3,866
Location
formerly Santa Clarita, California

COTM 69 Final Spoiler; Game Submitted




Reading Requirements:
You may only read this thread if:
  1. You have completed and submitted your game.


Posting Restrictions:
  1. None! As long as its related to the GOTM, and within the forum rules!
  2. And ... Absolutely NO discussion of any other active 'X'OTM contest!

Last opportunity to tell us about your Mayan adventure! And for you Predator players, what impact, if any, did your JT's losing the Enslave ability play?
 
Entry class: Open
Game status: Cultural 20K Victory for Maya
Game date: 1710 AD
Firaxis score: 2753
Jason score: 6718
Time played: 17:30:52

Played until 3AM to finish this:)

AA
Palace - 4000 BC
Pyramids - 1325 BC
Temple - 1100 BC
Oracle -875 BC
Library - 825 BC

MA- 650 BC
Great Library - 430 BC
Colosseum - 390 BC
Statue of Zeus - 190 BC
Cathedral -130 BC
Hanging Gardens - 170 AD
Shakespeare's Theater - 430 AD
University -470 AD
Sistine Chapel - 730 AD

IA- 900 AD
Newton's University - 990 AD
-factory
JS Bach's Cathedral - 1130 AD
-coal plant
Universal Suffrage - 1240 AD
Theory of Evolution - 1280 AD
Hoover Dam - 1325 AD
Battlefield Medicine - 1355 AD
Smith's Trading Company - 1390 AD
Wall Street - 1405 AD

Modern Age - Sometime in 1400s
United Nations - 1495 AD
Research Lab - 1500 AD
The Internet - 1550 AD
Heroic Epic - 1560 AD
Longevity - 1600 AD
SETI Program - 1640 AD
Cure for Cancer - 1680 AD
Apollo Program - 1700 AD

Mined all tiles, got 102 spt after factory + coal plant (the engineers tided it over 100) and 126 after nuclear plant (just enough for 8-turn 1000-shield wonders).

When I got Steam power I had no coal, so I had to go attack Carthage. (I traded for iron.) It was a bit slow at the beginning because I hadn't been building military, but when things got going I found no reason to stop, so took over the entire continent pretty quickly. Then I destroyed Arabia and the Incas. Egypt was nice to me all game, giving me lots of gpt. We made a mpp, against the Incas- i.e. Egypt got rid of all the Incan units on my territory, and I took the cities. At the very end I had to abandon 2 cities to not go over domination limit.

Record cultural 20k date for me; my next goal is to get one before 1700AD.
 
cotm69 predator
SS victory for Mayans in 1270ad
Firaxis score 3985
Jason score 9596

AA

i settle first, then move worker to wines, start on Alpha @ max

build order as how I remember it:
warrior-warrior-warrior-granary (rax prebuild)-settlers

3150 meet Persia, nothing useful, pop 25g
3100 pop POT, Alpha in, Writing next
2470 first settler and SF online
2430 meet Byz, some trades
1750 get slingshot and revolt
1575 Republic
1550 find 3rd nearby lux
1350 WF starts operating
1050 ivory connected

before 1000bc, MM ist the only tech the AI contributes.

qsc 1000bc:
11 cities
37 pop
1 settler, 11 workers, 5 warriors, 1 curragh, 1 slave
Construction + HB missing for age change
horses and 2 luxes connected
3 grans
contacts with Persia, yz and Carthago

875 meet Inca, get HB, age change
trade Persia + Byz up, they get Mono and Feud, i trade for both and start on Theo
670 3rd lux connected
590 meet Arabia
310 after researching the whole top tech tree i still have to go for Eng myself, as the AI has not managed to make that single tech for me. somewhere around this time i get rid of the unit costs.
50bc meet Egypt after i had accidentally left the curragh fortified due to a barb galley attack

10ad declare on Persia with only minimal forces but kick off my GA
250ad finally meet Ragnar
290 enter IA. both Byz and Persia get Nat :argh:
400 connect coal + 4th lux
410 connect iron
510 remove Persia from their continental belongings, gift them a faraway town i got in a peace treaty. they were weak, but my RNG results against them were dismal at several occasions. when i redeclare, i suddenly go from zero WW to level 3 WW ???? no clue what that is. the next turn, the effect was gone again. really strange.
660 core finally fully railed... everything feels really late in this game.
i can maintain 4-turn research during all of IA and MA.
810 Carthago destroyed
enter MA in 920ad, take Computers+Mini with ToE. no gifting up yet as both stupid scientific AIs decided to form an alliance last ibt...
940 Internet
960 SETI, Byz draws one of my techs
980 Persia draws Fission, I make the deal and then i destroy them. see that all resources are available on my continent.
1265 prepare for finish on ibt
1270 SS launched

ps:
i delayed the wonder builds for the modern age by 1 turn after ToE, as i cannot think of a way to build them at the very same turn. if there´s a way it would be nice if somebody could point it out to me.

pps:
i am happy i did not rely on oversea happy resources as no AI on the other continent ever built a harbor...

no way this was good enough if PaperBeetle went for space as well. but after my conquest blunder in the last game I needed to go for another victory condition. now I feel ok again ;-)

templar_x
 
Templar_X said:
i delayed the wonder builds for the modern age by 1 turn after ToE, as i cannot think of a way to build them at the very same turn. if there´s a way it would be nice if somebody could point it out to me.

I think if you know the order in which cities got founded you might do it (I label mine in numbers). You first have the city which finishes the Theory of Evolution as your capital or as one of the first founder cities. Then you cycle through using the right arrow to swap any pre-builds to whatever you want. Or if you don't need ToE for techs (e. g. playing against all scientific opponents, where you'll swap something to SETI or the U. N.), just have your earlier city have something that finishes that turn and then cycle to the next city with a pre-build.
 
"... i had accidentally left the curragh fortified due to a barb galley attack"
What for? As I recall, fortified ships don't get any defensive bonus for being fortified.

As for how much I should praise your result, I really don't know because I haven't played a science game in years. But as always your spoiler was pleasant to read!
 
I think if you know the order in which cities got founded you might do it (I label mine in numbers). You first have the city which finishes the Theory of Evolution as your capital or as one of the first founder cities. Then you cycle through using the right arrow to swap any pre-builds to whatever you want. Or if you don't need ToE for techs (e. g. playing against all scientific opponents, where you'll swap something to SETI or the U. N.), just have your earlier city have something that finishes that turn and then cycle to the next city with a pre-build.

i thought about that. but there is one thing i was not sure of that made me go the safe way: will ToE give me the two techs while i am still IN the city screen (allowing me to use the arrows) or will i have to LEAVE the city screen?

thanks for that info, as i am sure you´ll have the straight dope on it as a dedicated science player.

templar_x
 
"... i had accidentally left the curragh fortified due to a barb galley attack"
What for? As I recall, fortified ships don't get any defensive bonus for being fortified.

As for how much I should praise your result, I really don't know because I haven't played a science game in years. But as always your spoiler was pleasant to read!

so fortifying a ship does not help? :rolleyes: so much about my knowledge of this game... :lol: thanks for pointing that out to me.

good you liked the spoiler. the date is not so hot, i fear. the upper half of the hof table would just laugh at it.

templar_x
 
but there is one thing i was not sure of that made me go the safe way: will ToE give me the two techs while i am still IN the city screen (allowing me to use the arrows) or will i have to LEAVE the city screen?

I usually first of all make sure, that I discover a technology on the same turn as ToE is bound to finish. This will be the first event, and I can use The Big Picture to change any pre-builds as needed by this discovery. Then I leave TBP and let the cities finish their builds. IIRC, upon acknowledging the ToE build, the first bonus discovery is immediately posted, and I again have the chance to enter F1 over TBP and change pre-builds for remaining "later" cities. The same for the second discovery, so you can actually wait until that one is posted to enter TBP.
 
so fortifying a ship does not help? :rolleyes: so much about my knowledge of this game... :lol: thanks for pointing that out to me.

templar_x

I always fortify my galleys as well, when barbs are around... So that just means wasting 1 movement point?! Megalou, are you really sure the fortifying does not give any bonus? Because I remember in PBEM multiplayer there is a rule that bans the following "exploit":
Assume you have two (or more) ships, a slow-moving (let's say a battleship) and a faster one (let's say a transport). You move the stack as far as the slowest unit can move. Then, as long as the faster unit still has movement points left, you can right-click on the stack and say "Fortify all". Supposedly this will also fortify the battleship, even though it doesn't have any movement left and therefore should not be able to fortify.

If they went through the trouble of defining a rule against this, then fortifying ships must have some effect, or not?!

Lanzelot
 
Più Freddo;8923724 said:
I usually first of all make sure, that I discover a technology on the same turn as ToE is bound to finish. This will be the first event, and I can use The Big Picture to change any pre-builds as needed by this discovery. Then I leave TBP and let the cities finish their builds. IIRC, upon acknowledging the ToE build, the first bonus discovery is immediately posted, and I again have the chance to enter F1 over TBP and change pre-builds for remaining "later" cities. The same for the second discovery, so you can actually wait until that one is posted to enter TBP.

thanks a lot, Piu!
i did not lose anything in this game as 4-turn research could easily be maintained in Modern Age. Still i wanted to know whether this could be done technically. You should be right of course that F1 works after each tech learned, so no problem to switch the other prebuilds right in time.
templar_x
 
templar_x said:
i thought about that. but there is one thing i was not sure of that made me go the safe way: will ToE give me the two techs while i am still IN the city screen (allowing me to use the arrows) or will i have to LEAVE the city screen?

Not sure if it does work this way, but as I recall the order goes 1. science research calculated, 2. ToE completes, 3. you get your free techs, 4. you can change things in the city production screen. Not quite sure though, although I know the order of 1 and 2 goes that way for sure.
 
the date is not so hot, i fear. the upper half of the hof table would just laugh at it.
templar_x

Maybe they would, but then they get to wait for a start position with two luxes and four cows, or whatever they feel like, include all the SCI civs in the game, generate scientific great leaders, start with Pots, and their slavers actually take slaves.

I did go for space, I'm afraid, and after calculating your date of entry to the Industrial era, I knew I had to pick up the pace a bit, so I did most of the industrial and modern eras at 4 turns per tech, albeit with a quite a lot of micro at some points. I also got one industrial free tech from the SCIs and two modern free techs, so that's an 8 turn advantage for me right there. Final date 1140ad, spoiler to follow.
 
The Ancient Era
I found in place, set up a 4-turn settler factory, expand and meet the local civs. I reearch Pots then the slinsghot, which comes in 650bc. I roll a 6 turn anarchy. I enter the medieval in 925bc, with Zeus and the FP already built.

The Medieval Era
Gifting up the SCI civs gets Feudalism and Engineering, which can easily be traded for. Having done that, I attack Persia, and reuce them to a single growth-restricted town, starting the GA in 610bc. The war is extended to give Persia time to complete Pyramids, but I am done in time for the next era change. I research everything in 4 turns, except Monotheism and Theology (7 turns each, before the GA) and Astronomy (5 turns). The industrial is reached in 210ad, just after my armies have started the war on Carthage.

Going Industrial
I gift X-man up and he gets Nationalism, which is bad. Theo gets Steam, which is much better. She's not about to give that up for anything I can offer, but I'm sure I can find something to sweeten the Medicine... 4 turns later, Theo accepts Medicine + Monarchy for Steam. X-man wants Steam + Medicine + Monarchy + Literature for Nationalism, which seems a bit steep, but I take it on the off-chance that I can use a cop in my micro somewhere. I research Electricity, heading for the all-important Replaceables. It turns out the local coal source is in Persia's territory, but I can grab it with a new town.

The Joy of War
In 360ad X-man restarts our war by sneak-razing one of my villages. Well, that is extremely thoughtful of him; now I get war happiness. It was even a town I didn't like the placement of! Theo demands Electricity in 390ad, and doesn't get it, but unfortunately no dow ensues. Ah well, she'll get her turn soon enough.
The Carthaginians are finished off in 460ad, but their numidians dragged a lot of ACs down with them, and given the AI's failure to research Chivalry, those a still my best units. The length of the war was mainly due to waiting for towns to grow enough to be capturable. Byzantium is next up, with a dow in 510ad. After a fair bit of fishing, another leader pops up in 580ad. The AI still haven't dreamt up any exciting military technology, so it looks like an army of infantries is on the cards. How very PtW. The Byzantines are removed from Alpha in 620ad, surviving in a town they settled on Beta. No need to give Theo peace yet as I have no war weariness.

Attacking Beta
The AI finally figure out Chivalry in 650ad. I give Theo peace for 39gpt + 92g, and then take Chivalry for Corporation. I could have bought it from the Arabs, but Theo is going to have to be brought into the modern era anyway, so I might as well profit from doing it. I start arranging troops to visit the weak-looking Vikings, with whom I have no trades, and whose lands neighbour my fur colonies in northern Beta.
I dow Ragnar in 660ad, and get sneak attacked by the Inca in 680ad. The more the merrier I say. Abu demands Astronomy a turn later... obviously not going to happen, but no further dows come my way. The Vikings are gone in 770ad.

Industrial Research
Medicine... 4 turn research, at the cost of a turn of riots in my 3 biggest cities
Steam...trade
(Nationalism... trade)
Electricity... 6 turn research
Scientific Method... 4 turn research
Industry... 4 turn research
Corporation... 4 turn research
Replaceables... 5 turn research
Steel... 4 turn research
Refining... 4 turn research
Combustion... 4 turn research
(Chivalry... trade)
Mass Production... 4 turn research
Motors... 4 turn research
Flight... 4 turn research
Atomic... 4 turn research
(Communism... trade)
Electronics... 4 turn research

Entering The Modern Era
The industrial era ends with the research of Electronics in 810>820ad. Bringing X-man up nets Computers, and Theo gets Rockets. Darwin completes on the same interturn; I take Fission first, trade it to X-man for Computers, and then take Miniaturization. Theo gives up Rockets for Fission also (she still doesn't know X-man, and never will). The Internet then completes, bringing my research up to 4 turns per tech again, at least for the cheaper modern techs; I research Nuclear.

Leader Fishing
880ad sees the end of the Inca (but I should have let them live for war happiness purposes), and as I have per-turn deals with everyone else, the start of a period of peace. Egypt and Persia will be my next targets, in 13 turns time, although if anyone wants to dow me in the meantime, I will be more than happy to oblige with a war. I Re-dow Persia in 1010ad, and get a leader attacking their town (Pentagon). Over on Beta my last Javeliner finally throws a leader in 1020ad. I send him to Alpha to build Ironworks. It's not in a useful place, but it's amusing to build it once in a while. It's pretty much non-stop leaders from here on (14 appear throughout the whole game). They mostly make armies that don't need to be used, and there aren't the troops to fill them.

Finishing Up
The Persians last an impresive two turns; I was surprised at the amount of defenders X-man had amassed during his time in solitary confinement: 4 rifles, a flak and a spear.
I kick the Byzantines out in 1060ad, and the Egyptians are gone in 1100ad. Arabia accepts my invitation of an open city in 1100ad, and the last war has begun. By 1130ad, Arabia is reduced to a single trap town I gifted to Abu just before his dow.
This world is clearly mine, so I blast off to a new one in 1140ad. 4654 Firaxis points gives a Jason score of 10582.

Modern Research
Fission... free
Computers... trade
Miniaturization... free
Rockets... trade
Nuclear... 4 turn research
Space... 4 turn research
(Music... trade)
Ecology... 4 turn research
Synthetics... 4 turn research
Laser... 4 turn research
Robots... 4 turn research
Superconductor... 4 turn research
Satellites... 4 turn research
 

Attachments

  • PaperBeetle_COTM69_1140ad.jpg
    PaperBeetle_COTM69_1140ad.jpg
    110.3 KB · Views: 93
so fortifying a ship does not help? :rolleyes: so much about my knowledge of this game... :lol: thanks for pointing that out to me.

Ok, I finally got around to conduct a little test. The outcome indicates a 10% bonus for fortifying ships. Here are the details:

Created a little scenario with two non-seafaring civs (Rome and Germany) and gave them a stack of 100 galleys each. I had modified the galleys to have 6 hitpoints instead of 3, to make battle between them a bit less random.
Then I played that scenario 20 times as a Hotseat game. Ten times Rome fortified her galleys and ten times she didn't, afterwards the German galleys all attacked.

Lets first consider the unfortified case.
The coastal territory gives a defense bonus of 10%, which means the Roman unfortified galleys had a de-facto defense strength of 1.1 against an attack strength of the German galleys of 1. For the 1000 tries this 1 : 1.1 chance should translate to 476 wins to 524 losses. However the outcome was 452 wins to 548 losses, which corresponds to a chance of 1 : 1.21. So at first this "looks like" coast has given the Romans a 20% defense bonus. But my explanation of this is as follows: it happened quite a number of times that a Roman galley survived the fight unscathed and promoted from 6/6 to 7/7. This of course reduced the chances for the next German galley. In total these "unfair" fights might account for the extra 10%.

When I fortified the Roman galleys, they outcome was 429 wins to 571 losses. This translates to a chance of 1 : 1.33, so an "effective" defense bonus of ca. 30%. If we assign 10% to the coastal defense bonus and 10% to the "veteran bonus" as before, then the remaining 10% must be due to the fortification.

According to the Military Academy, the bonus that land units get from fortification is 25%. So either for sea units it's different, or my above tests are wrong. (After all, 1000 is still a "small" number, so don't know how much statistical significance this test has...)

Lanzelot
 
Entry class: Open
Game status: Domination Victory for Maya
Game date: 700 AD
Firaxis score: 5221
Jason score: 10550

Turns out Conquest was only two turns away.

Built ToA, and quickly wiped out my continent. Researched Chivalry after eliminating Persia and picking up their Iron, then a quick trip down to take out Carthage with Longbows, Knights to finish up the Byzantines. Finished Lighthouse, and great wall, and both unit wonders, turned research off after Military tradition, upgraded the knights and walked over Arabia, then turned on the Incas and the Egyptians, coming in from both the north and south. Never researched Theology...
 
Thanks for doing the test, Lancelot on your horse Racinante. It seems like a good test.
 
Megalou - sleepy again? it was Lanzelot doing the test. ;)

Lanzelot - thanks a lot for that! you really made the effort, great. this gives everyone the bonus of a better insight into the game, sure. but my very personal bonus gain is that i need not feel ashamed over fortifying my galleys for the years that i´ve played this game :lol:

templar_x
 
Back
Top Bottom