Could someone give advices for cultural victory

[vsipinen]

I have managed to achieve cultural victories, but I think rather late. In order to get the cultural victory earlier I have tried to found early religions and to build lot of religious buildings and wonders. In my latest attempt I most likely concentared all too much for that leaving my military all too weak. As I should have been anticipated I eventually became invaded first by Napoleon and then Isabella (within just few turns). While I was barely able to cope the first invasion wave by the Napoleon, I had no chance against the other invasion, because I simply had not enough military (even as I had slightly better units).

So I would like to know, how would it be possible to concentrate sufficiently for culture (for the purpose of earlier cultural victory) without dangerously negleting the military ? Also I would be interested to know how early it is actually possible to "safely" achieve the cultural victory ?

 

[Thedrin]

My prefered traits for a cultural victory are spiritual and philosophical. The only wonder I would insist upon going for is the Sistine Chapel.

A spiritual civ if you're following primary way to culture is through religions. This route requires as much cathedrals as you can build in your three main cities. To do so you have to build temples in your non-culture cities which distracts them from more important tasks (such as building up a military and developing an economy). If you select a spiritual civ those temples will be built twice as quickly and your non-culture cities can focus on other things.

A philosophical civ if you're focusing on great artists. These don't require much from your non-culture cities (other than a stable economy and very few non great artists) which allows you to focus on a military.

My earliest culture victory was in 1692 with Vanilla Mao Zedong (philosophical/organised). I folowed a great artist strategy.

 

[cabert]

I have managed to achieve cultural victories, but I think rather late. In order to get the cultural victory earlier I have tried to found early religions and to build lot of religious buildings and wonders. In my latest attempt I most likely concentared all too much for that leaving my military all too weak. As I should have been anticipated I eventually became invaded first by Napoleon and then Isabella (within just few turns). While I was barely able to cope the first invasion wave by the Napoleon, I had no chance against the other invasion, because I simply had not enough military (even as I had slightly better units).

So I would like to know, how would it be possible to concentrate sufficiently for culture (for the purpose of earlier cultural victory) without dangerously negleting the military ? Also I would be interested to know how early it is actually possible to "safely" achieve the cultural victory ?

There are basically 2 ways to achieve cultural :
- keeping out of wars, using strong diplomacy
- using a standard domination strat for most of the game, only focusing on cultural buildings in 3 cities and keeping strong enough all through the game

The first way is a lot faster. The second way is a lot safer.
If you want to have a safe cultural win, I'd suggest trying to conquer 10/12 cities minimum with 4/5 religions minimum.
You keep expanding militarily while spreading those religions widely (each religion must be spread to 9 cities including the 3 big ones) and building temples all around the place (this is where spiritual shines! you whip each temple for 1 pop or 2 pops, the happiness bonus covers the happiness penalty, so you don't spend too much time building temples, you have time to build catapults!) and cathedrals in your top 3 cities.

 

[Wodan]

Cabert has it right... 9 cities minimum, spread religions around and build temples everywhere.

Another trick is running caste system, building farms in your big 3 cities, and running artists out the wazoo. You'll make a lot of Great Artists: settle those guys, starting with the "weaker" (in culture) of your 3 cities, to bring it up to speed with the others.

Once you get where you have all the cathedrals you're likely to get (plus theatres and whatever else you can throw in there, but don't waste your time too much on wonders except for Sistine if you can get it), plus caste system, switch your Cultural slider to 100%. Set most or all of your other cities to cranking out Maces and Cats, or whatever your best units are. You won't have a problem with "safety". Even if/when the other players start getting ahead on tech level, you'll have so many units it won't matter.

Wodan

 

[cabert]

Cabert has it right... 9 cities minimum, spread religions around and build temples everywhere.

I like it how you say I'm right then state the almost complete opposite of what I said

 

[vsipinen]

Thanks for all advices. I have tried to achieve the cultural victory mostly with the religious means, because that seemed to be best way to get culture. I have concentrated to building temples and cathedrals, but the problem I have encountered is that I have not managed to build other things as military units enough. I guess I should try spiritual leader. Perhaps I should also experiment with the artist specialists.

 

[Wodan]

I like it how you say I'm right then state the almost complete opposite of what I said

That's why I had the transitional phrase, "Another trick is..." (ephasis added)

Anyway good luck, vsipinen. Just keep in mind that once you crank the slider to 100% culture, no matter what "trick" you're using, it doesn't really matter so much what all your other cities do. So, you have ~6+ cities whose only job is to keep your money in the positive, and to crank out military units. Research is irrelevant for the most part.

Wodan

 

[harusame]

to obtain cultural victory, you will need:
1. Money
2. Great artist
3. Good Diplomacy

that's why, the most relevant traits are Financial, Philosophical and Spiritual
Basically you will need a decent start location, preferably near Corn/Wheat and Stone

build pyramid after you build 2 cities, then expand to 4 cities
build oracle and discover Code of Law

when you get currency, you might expand more to 6+ cities (either outside your border or inside your border)

the first Great Prophet should lightbulb Theology, and build Sistine Chapel
then you beeline to liberalism and stop teching there

Basically you dont have to found a religion,
in my opinion, it is better to spend the time to research more important tech such as bronze working
religions will come from neighbours soon or later, and i prefer not to adopt a state religion before pacifism (to avoid war)
some leaders are very sensitive if you adopt a different state religion

 

[Mu'min]

Hi,
I'm trying for a cultrual victory myself at the moment. Im play saladin on epic/noble/huge/pangerer(soz cant spell). I got 10 cities, at the moment , and the statgergy im going for is build everything cultrual in my 3 cities, spread every religion i can to them(got 3), build temples in every city and put all the the catrealals in them, each one adds 50%. Build great artists farms in every city i can and add them as city specialist. With wonders im going for all the high cultural/gp artist adding wonders and puting them in my 3 cultural cities. As for the rest of my cities they are producing missionaries, infrastructure (finiancal/production cities) military units, as im at war with monty .
Im encountering the same problem with being military weak aswell, which is why monty has gone from giving me cash to war within a few centuries. right now, though, that problem is being solved thanks to those production cities i developed. and just today a scout spotted a small isolated aztec city close to my border, i was going to just egnore it, but then i saw that is was the Tao holy city , and it was only guarded by a longbowman and axeman , so now half my army is heading to that city led by crII sworfman.

 

[svv]

I disagree about the 9 cities. I think you may find that you have an old city, your original capital probably, that will have a lot of wonders or old culture buildings, so it will be fine without cathedral-level buildings. I think you only need those in the second two cities. So, you only need to build six temples for each religion.

 

[LuckyAC]

Get however many cities you need to build cathedrals in your 3 cities (9 on standard map), but only 3 need to be any good. Get some religions (the lower the level or the more isolated you are, the more you need to found yourself). Farm your capital, make it a GA farm, cottage the two others. Tech to liberalism/music/printing press, stop science and turn up max culture.

 

[Wodan]

I disagree about the 9 cities. I think you may find that you have an old city, your original capital probably, that will have a lot of wonders or old culture buildings, so it will be fine without cathedral-level buildings. I think you only need those in the second two cities. So, you only need to build six temples for each religion.

Depends on what level you're playing on. Higher levels, you're not going to get many wonders even in your capitol (if you're wasting time doing that, you're dead).

Also, a double temple for being 1000 years old is only a +1 incremental bonus. There's a huge difference between a handful of additive bonuses and a couple of multiplicative bonuses of +50% each.

Wodan

 

[scy12]

I remember a game where as Ghandi i had settled in the capital-farm 10 great scientists and 4 artists , some GG,GE and i also had the Sistine Chapel , national epic , Oxford University SOL and i was running representation ... That city alone produced 400 Science with the research Science slider at 0 . I was able to set the culture slider to the tops and still have fast research times . Good times.

 

[cabert]

I disagree about the 9 cities. I think you may find that you have an old city, your original capital probably, that will have a lot of wonders or old culture buildings, so it will be fine without cathedral-level buildings. I think you only need those in the second two cities. So, you only need to build six temples for each religion.

It's possible to win with 6 cities. I did it.
It's just easier with 9+.

If you want to make do with only 6 cities, you're going to need the ermitage in the last city or to culture bomb the 3 city like crazy.

I tried both ways :
1) - 6 cities, ermitage in the lowest culture producer, cathedralless city, culture bombing everywhere
2) - 6 cities, cathedrals in the 2 best culture cities, ermitage in the second best, culture bompbing in the 3rd city only.

2) gave better results (=earlier win), but the games were totally different (different leaders, different levels, different diplomacy), so it's not scientifically proven.

I also found that it's better to have a GP farm not trying to reach the legendary level (= 3 big shot cultural cities + 1 independant GP farm).
If you try to bring the GP farm to legendary, you will need hammers there and you will slow down the rate of GArtists.

edit : what I'm trying to say is that it's better to have more cities, each being able to produce exactly what you're looking for.
SO 9 cities filled with temples + 1 GP farm = 10 cities > 9 cities filled with temples including a GP farm > 6 cities including a GP farm

 

[mrt144]

i find that listening to disco helps me in cultural victory "Back to Heaven" by Number One Ensemble especially.

 

[cabert]

i find that listening to disco helps me in cultural victory "Back to Heaven" by Number One Ensemble especially.

I found that moving the sound slider up made my wife very upset and shortened my playing time = making it really difficult to win anything.

 

[Vynd]

So I would like to know, how would it be possible to concentrate sufficiently for culture (for the purpose of earlier cultural victory) without dangerously negleting the military ? Also I would be interested to know how early it is actually possible to "safely" achieve the cultural victory ?

If your main concern is not getting defeated militarily on your way to a culture victory, then probably be the best piece of advice I can offer is do not adopt a religion. If you have a state religion you are bound to get some big diplomatic penalties with someone out there, and that someone will more than likely attack you because you're going to be militarily weak. So skip the state religion if you're worried about getting attacked.

More generally speaking, pay close attention to diplomacy. Be as friendly as you can with the most powerful and advanced nations. Identify who their enemies are, and do not trade with them. But do give in to demands for tribute from anyone and everyone. Consider even giving in to demands to switch civics or religions, if it won't hurt you too much (e.g., you can switch back again quickly).

You've already recognized that you cannot neglect your military completely. You can usually get away with a weak military at the very beginning of the game because most AIs aren't very aggressive then. Just don't do anything to make them mad at you. But by the time you have 3 or 4 cities in place you should have at least one of them that is devoting a lot of its time to building military units. That won't be enough for you to keep up with the AI in military size, but you're not going on the offensive. All you need are enough troops to fight off a single AI if he decides to attack in the middle part of the game when you're on par with them technologically. This shouldn't be that hard, because the AIs are lousy at military tactics.

In the later stages of the game you can stop building military again because by that time the AIs armies will be so much bigger and better than yours that you can't possibly beat them. Once you're fully committed to culture production your best hope is to just concentrate on getting your Legendary cities as fast as possible. Building more Macemen or Grenadiers will not help you if the AI has huge armies of Infantry. All you can do is avoid war at all costs.

A few other general concepts for fast cultural victories:

The Pyramids are very helpful. Representation gives you added benefits for running Artist specialists. And you can speed up the construction of Temples and Cathedrals tremendously by using Universal Suffrage. Among other things this means you will not need to land-grab as much early on, because you can build your last few cities after your culture starts booming outwards and then just rush the necessary buildings in them.

You'll want as many Great Artists as you can get, so a great person pump is important. But as Cabert said, ideally this will not be one of the 3 cities you are targeting for Legendary status, because a city that has to produce both lots of Great Artists and build lots of Cathedrals will be slower at both than separate cities that are more focused.

Getting to Liberalism as quickly as possible is probably more important in a cultural victory than any other type of game. Free Speech is extremely useful. And so is the free tech if you get there first. I almost always take Nationalism, which enables the Hermitage.

I recommend against doing any more research after you get Liberalism. Once you are running Free Speech you should either go all culture immediately, or go all money if you're in a position to cash-rush temples and cathedrals, and then go all culture.

Once you are running all culture, you probably don't need happiness resources anymore. Trade them away for cash (but be careful not to rack up trading with the enemy relationship bonuses). Consider trading them away even earlier if they'll help you get resources that speed up construction of your Cathedrals.

 

[oyzar]

I dont see how this safety level cant matter? The AI often have tanks or even modern armor by the time i am done. It is not like modern units tear through longbowmen like butter. Heck even cavalery or riflemen works. Try to get a defencive pact going. At least if you play on a difficultiy level comparable to your skill level the AI should be starting apollo about the time you win. My last(and i think only) cultural vitory saladin who was above everyone else in tech and power(he even beat me to liberalism!) asked me to adop his state religion, this gave me +4 modifier with him and was enough of a difference to help me maintain a defencive pact through the game with him. This was emproer level. I also had the great fortune that isabella started spreading her many religions to me so the vicoty was sped up by a bit(i only had 3 initially, with 2 of the cities having founded religions and the 3rd beeing my capital), i would still have own thanks to the chineese UB though. I used most of the other cities to produce wealth so i could run a 100% culture slider and gave a damn in the power graph to be able to win before saladin launched.

You want to get research -> money(rushbuy temples and cathedrals) -> culture -> win.

 

[jesusin]

You'll make a lot of Great Artists: settle those guys, starting with the "weaker" (in culture) of your 3 cities, to bring it up to speed with the others.

The early GA gives maximum culture if settled. The late GA gives maximum culture if bombed. It is always true that you should bomb your worst city. I don’t think it is always true that you should settle in your worst city.

You'll want as many Great Artists as you can get, so a great person pump is important. But as Cabert said, ideally this will not be one of the 3 cities you are targeting for Legendary status, because a city that has to produce both lots of Great Artists and build lots of Cathedrals will be slower at both than separate cities that are more focused.

… I almost always take Nationalism, which enables the Hermitage.

Very good pieces of advice in your post, Vynd. I have always been undecided about making my GPfarm one of the Three Legendary. I usually do so, thinking that all that culture the artist produce would go to waste otherwise. But your argument here (or Cabert’s) is quite convincing…

If you have the Pyramids (I never build them in cultural games) then maybe you can rushbuy all the cathedrals in the GPfarm, though.

By the way, in that situation the Sistine Chapel (the most mentioned WW in this thread) is completely useless. I don’t recommend building any wonder in high difficulty levels, anyway. If you must build a WW, then be sure it is the Parthenon.


You should try Printing Press as a free tech, instead of Nationalism, in your high difficulty level games. When you get to Liberalism first the AI stops going after it, and they almost always research Nationalism before Print, so you use Print to trade for Nationalism.

If you want to make do with only 6 cities, you're going to need the ermitage in the last city or to culture bomb the 3 city like crazy.

I tried both ways :
1) - 6 cities, ermitage in the lowest culture producer, cathedralless city, culture bombing everywhere
2) - 6 cities, cathedrals in the 2 best culture cities, ermitage in the second best, culture bompbing in the 3rd city only.

2) gave better results (=earlier win), but the games were totally different (different leaders, different levels, different diplomacy), so it's not scientifically proven.

As long as you have enough GA, the second way can be scientifically proved better.

Culture bombs are mobile and they are not affected by multipliers, so the best way to use them is to bomb the worst city. On the other hand, Cathedrals and Hermitage are multipliers, so they add more culture if used in the best city.

I also found that it's better to have a GP farm not trying to reach the legendary level (= 3 big shot cultural cities + 1 independant GP farm).
If you try to bring the GP farm to legendary, you will need hammers there and you will slow down the rate of GArtists.

Hmmm, that’s quite true. On the other hand, you could bomb your GPfarm all the way to Legendary. Or buy all the buildings in the GPfarm.


My opinions on this subject, together with the scarcity of city sites in high difficulty levels, tend to make me follow a minimalist approach: 6 cities, the GPfarm is the 3rd Legendary city, it receives no Cathedrals and no Hermitage and it is bombed all the way up, if I will have enough GA left after that then the Hermitage goes to the best city, otherwise it goes with to the second best.


@vsipinen, I am sorry I can not offer any military advice, my games are HOF and I try to find the quickest possible way to victory, so I choose peaceful leaders and I don’t build any military at all.

 

[mrt144]

the thing thats hard about making a GP farm not be one of the lengendary cities is that one of the best (well some of the best) culture boon buildings are wonders and wonders produce GAs.