Could someone help on the ultimate government?

[Theov]

I've been trying to include another government into the game. The ultimate one, but I don't know how.


Worker Efficiency: 200%
Hurry Method: Pay citizens
Corruption: Minimal
War Weariness: None
Draft Rate: 2
Military Police Limit: 4
Unit Support Town/City/Metro: 6/7/10

Adds 1 commerce to any tile already producing at least 1 = the commerce bonus.

- What tech should be a requisite for this? I was thinking Corporation.
- I don't know how to edit/mod it into the game.
- How shall we call it?

Anyone wants to help? That would be awesome.

 

[Spoonwood]

It should require Future Tech 1. That government looks way overpowered. I'll ardently defend Republic or Democracy as the best government(s), but they have unit support and war weariness weakness (compared to some others), have no MPs, and have a lower draft rate. What you've proposed here unbalances the governments in the game... each has its advantages and disadvantages... what disadvantage does this government really have? I see none, so it should require Future Tech 1.

 

[timerover51]

I think that I would have to agree with Spoonwood here, that government is like none that has ever existed, so a Future Tech is clearly indicated, but more like 5 or 6. What you have is a bunch of contradictions in what you have given it.

A worker efficiency of 200% implies a very high profit motive at work, so that would indicate minimal taxes to support a military. However, your unit support is 6/7/10, indicating a high tax rate to support a large military, and you show no unit support costs at all. You have no war weariness, which does not go with a very high profit motive, as that indicates minimal government, and some form of democracy, and democracies have major problems with war weariness. The commerce bonus points to a near unrestricted free market, at odds with the military police presence. A military police factor of 4 equals that of fascism and communism, both police states, yet the other data does not support a police state government, with paid workers for rushed production. As for a unrestricted free market and corruption, take a look at the US Robber Baron period in the late 1800s. Overall, what you are putting together does not compute. Basically, what you have there is a government optimized for Always War, with no drawbacks.

I use what I view as an Idealized Monarchy, similar to what is found in some of the H. Beam Piper science fiction or parallel universe novels, with the following characteristics:

Worker Efficiency: One less than Republic or Democracy (I have both equal in my mods, and I have reduced the time required for worker jobs, but that of course affects everyone.)
Hurry Method: Pay citizens
Corruption: Minimal
War Weariness: None
Draft Rate: 2
Military Police Limit: 3
Unit Support Town/City/Metro: 4/8/16 (note, I do not build metros to avoid pollution, towns get 8 or 9 population, cities get 20 or 21)
Unit costs: 1 per unit not supported by town/city/metro.
No commerce bonus.

To further reduce corruption and make happy citizens, I have set a fair number of buildings to combat corruption along with the Court House, and also make citizens happy by their presence. As it is, I still have the entertainment slider set to between 20% and 30% to generate WLTK days. An AI that builds metros and is in Republic or Democracy causes me major problems, as does one that uses my modified Monarchy.

Based on my experience with my modified Monarchy, the AI will head for your new government as fast as it can.

Are you prepared to deal with your own creation being used against you?

 

[Snarkhunter]

I think that I would have to agree with Spoonwood here, that government is like none that has ever existed, so a Future Tech is clearly indicated, but more like 5 or 6. What you have is a bunch of contradictions in what you have given it.

A worker efficiency of 200% implies a very high profit motive at work. . . .

(Lots of interesting stuff ellided.) Not necessarily. Could easily be efficient machinery. In fact, looking at the rest of your analysis, it's clear to me that the government being suggested is. . . Robotic! A civ/government of robots would make perfect sense of the contradictions you mention. Either they got fed up with their human masters at some point & deleted them, or the humans didn't see any point in continuing once the robots took everything over & gradually faded out. You could call it a machine civ, a la Jack Chalker's Well series.

But it's definitely a future tech, no doubt about it

kk

 

[da3dalus]

Are you prepared to deal with your own creation being used against you?

Hah! Excellent point.

It is a pretty unbalancing government, I'm afraid if it has future tech as a prerequisite I'd never use it in game, 'cause my games never make it past the modern era.

 

[Theov]

I think that I would have to agree with Spoonwood here, that government is like none that has ever existed, so a Future Tech is clearly indicated, but more like 5 or 6. What you have is a bunch of contradictions in what you have given it.

I use what I view as an Idealized Monarchy, similar to what is found in some of the H. Beam Piper science fiction or parallel universe novels...

...Based on my experience with my modified Monarchy, the AI will head for your new government as fast as it can.

I agree it's powerful. I like your proposal, what tech is needed for it? If it's a quite early tech, we could improve your Idealised Monarchy, and push it backwards.

I like one better than Republic though, because most of the times you switch to Repo and never look back. Somewhere needs to be an upgrade.

Are you prepared to deal with your own creation being used against you?

I can't wait.

(Lots of interesting stuff ellided.) Not necessarily. Could easily be efficient machinery. In fact, looking at the rest of your analysis, it's clear to me that the government being suggested is. . . Robotic! A civ/government of robots would make perfect sense of the contradictions you mention. Either they got fed up with their human masters at some point & deleted them, or the humans didn't see any point in continuing once the robots took everything over & gradually faded out. You could call it a machine civ, a la Jack Chalker's Well series.

But it's definitely a future tech, no doubt about it

kk

That's something.
We can call it a Robocracy, with a new T-800 unit.

Seriously though.
Ok, the Gov is over the top, so off course it needs a tweak or 2, but I want something better than republic, which is too early in the game for a powerful gov like that.

 

[timerover51]

I agree it's powerful. I like your proposal, what tech is needed for it? If it's a quite early tech, we could improve your Idealised Monarchy, and push it backwards.

I like one better than Republic though, because most of the times you switch to Repo and never look back. Somewhere needs to be an upgrade.

Presently, I have my Idealized Monarchy only requiring the Monarchy Advance. Thinking about it, you could add my concept as a Constitutional Monarchy, requiring both Monarchy and Education, following Education in the Tech Tree. As for Republic, you could substitute say Oligarchy for Republic, with some slightly downgraded characteristics, and then have Republic come during the Middle Ages as an alternative to Democracy. Most of what we view as the Greek Republics were closer to Oligarchies, as was Republican Rome.

I can't wait.

Personally, I would rather NOT have to deal with my own creations. Like Dr. Frankenstein, I tend to make them too powerful.

That's something.
We can call it a Robocracy, with a new T-800 unit.

I like the idea of the Robocracy, but make it a Future Tech as say Robotics 2, requiring the Robotics Tech, and another Future Tech of Microminiaturization, with Microminiaturization requiring both Miniaturization and Superconductor.

Seriously though.
Ok, the Gov is over the top, so off course it needs a tweak or 2, but I want something better than republic, which is too early in the game for a powerful gov like that.

I would agree that Republic is too powerful and too early. See my Oligarchy idea. I will hook up my Windows game editing box, and try to post some ideas later today.

Nice to have so many comments on my ideas, and not to be shot at.

 

[Theov]

Presently, I have my Idealized Monarchy only requiring the Monarchy Advance. Thinking about it, you could add my concept as a Constitutional Monarchy, requiring both Monarchy and Education, following Education in the Tech Tree. As for Republic, you could substitute say Oligarchy for Republic, with some slightly downgraded characteristics, and then have Republic come during the Middle Ages as an alternative to Democracy. Most of what we view as the Greek Republics were closer to Oligarchies, as was Republican Rome.

I like the Oligarchy gov in the Roman scenario. That inspired me. The game needs another government, better than the Republic later in the game.

Personally, I would rather NOT have to deal with my own creations. Like Dr. Frankenstein, I tend to make them too powerful.

As the Terminators are the ultimate example, in real life no one has seen it as an obstacle NOT to invent something.

I like the idea of the Robocracy, but make it a Future Tech as say Robotics 2, requiring the Robotics Tech, and another Future Tech of Microminiaturization, with Microminiaturization requiring both Miniaturization and Superconductor.

I'd say Electronics, since that kick started the modern world as we know it.

I would agree that Republic is too powerful and too early. See my Oligarchy idea. I will hook up my Windows game editing box, and try to post some ideas later today.
Nice to have so many comments on my ideas, and not to be shot at.

That's why I feel the need for another.
Looking forward to your creation.

 

[MP5A4]

Republic is the way to go.

 

[Bowsling]

Sort of reminds me of Imperialism in RoR. for the tech though, I'd go with either future tech, like spoonwood said, or one of the less useful techs like advanced flight or free artistry.

 

[BuckyRea]

The ultimate one...

Worker Efficiency: 200%
Hurry Method: Pay citizens
Corruption: Minimal
War Weariness: None
Draft Rate: 2
Military Police Limit: 4
Unit Support Town/City/Metro: 6/7/10

Adds 1 commerce to any tile already producing at least 1 = the commerce bonus.

- What tech should be a requisite for this? I was thinking Corporation.
- I don't know how to edit/mod it into the game.
- How shall we call it?

I would call this "Ant Colony Mind Meld" in which each individual has lost his free will, but strickly obeys the commands of the queen ant to work hard and buy lots of consumer goods to keep the economy well stimulated. Assumed in all this is that you also have some mutant megabrain humants who constantly come up with the technological innovations required to keep expanding your economy.

Seriously, in what form of government do people both work efficiently and not mind a big war going on?

 

[candle]

I would call this "Ant Colony Mind Meld" in which each individual has lost his free will, but strickly obeys the commands of the queen ant to work hard and buy lots of consumer goods to keep the economy well stimulated. Assumed in all this is that you also have some mutant megabrain humants who constantly come up with the technological innovations required to keep expanding your economy.

Seriously, in what form of government do people both work efficiently and not mind a big war going on?

not in modern times but look at the roman empire, great works, rich citizens, lots of production (slaves of course did most of it), and big wars. See the roman empire had it right, war is fine as long as you can keep the peoples minds off of it. You could say his government type uses only the lower citizenery as troops while the middle class and upper class work and enjoy a lavish lifestyle.

 

[ChaosArbiter]

The Roman Empire would probably best use a Monarchy with a whole lot of cash to burn, though I'm unsure how much of the Republican infrastructure was removed.

 

[Theov]

Not very constructive here guys.
I'm not saying this MUST be the gov, but I like something better than repo and somewhere later in the game.
Can someone help me with this idea?

 

[ChaosArbiter]

Better than Republic for what? Democracy is a better 'builder'/peacetime government, and Fascism and Communism both tend to be slightly better 'nuke the world' governments. Republic and Monarchy are the most balanced of the governments, and if you want something 'better' you're essentially creating a government with no drawbacks. Seeing as how such a government would be obviously broken, there's no reason.

 

[Theov]

Better than Republic for what? Democracy is a better 'builder'/peacetime government, and Fascism and Communism both tend to be slightly better 'nuke the world' governments. Republic and Monarchy are the most balanced of the governments, and if you want something 'better' you're essentially creating a government with no drawbacks. Seeing as how such a government would be obviously broken, there's no reason.

I hope you can understand that I might like the idea of having a late game government in the game, like I've proposed. It's not that I want you to like it.

What you are doing is giving an argument why such a gov shouldn't be in the game. Thank you, but I see it differently. All you have to do is understand that some people think differently than you do. So the discussion here is not whether it should be in the game, the question is that I would like it in the game and if someone could help.

 

[Spoonwood]

I don't know what type of help you want Theov. You didn't like the idea of having a future tech as a requisite, and you put down The Corporation as your own suggestion. Honestly, I doubt anyone else here but you believes this sort of government can come earlier than a future tech and the game still play as balanced. Even timerover51 thinks so. So, since everyone else (seems to) sees it as unbalancing if put before a future tech, how can we help you determine where it fits in the balance of the game, when we don't see anyway it can fit in the balance of the game anywhere? Honestly, I'm confused. And yes... it seems *that* unbalancing.

Having said that, I'll suggest Bronze Working as the requisite tech. I would say Pottery, but the AIs tend to research Bronze Working first if they don't already have it.

What don't you like about The Republic? Sure, it has war weariness, but that balances out having the extra commerce. For a government with no weariness and the commerce bonus, why pick any other government ever (o.k. pop-rusing in a 100k game, maybe... but not many of those games get played)?

I don't know what you want, but here's a suggestion for you. I would still consider this overpowered and unbalancing, but since you don't want to adapt to the governments in the game, and make them adapt to you instead here goes...

Name: The Scientific Method or Potassium Nitrate
Worker Efficiency: 150%
Hurry Method: Pay citizens
Corruption: Nuisance
War Weariness: None
Draft Rate: 1
Military Police Limit: 2
Unit Support Town/City/Metro: 2/4/6
Requires: Chemistry or Gunpowder

 

[Theov]

I don't know what type of help you want Theov. You didn't like the idea of having a future tech as a requisite, and you put down The Corporation as your own suggestion. Honestly, I doubt anyone else here but you believes this sort of government can come earlier than a future tech and the game still play as balanced. Even timerover51 thinks so. So, since everyone else (seems to) sees it as unbalancing if put before a future tech, how can we help you determine where it fits in the balance of the game, when we don't see anyway it can fit in the balance of the game anywhere? Honestly, I'm confused. And yes... it seems *that* unbalancing.

Having said that, I'll suggest Bronze Working as the requisite tech. I would say Pottery, but the AIs tend to research Bronze Working first if they don't already have it.

What don't you like about The Republic? Sure, it has war weariness, but that balances out having the extra commerce. For a government with no weariness and the commerce bonus, why pick any other government ever (o.k. pop-rusing in a 100k game, maybe... but not many of those games get played)?

I don't know what you want, but here's a suggestion for you. I would still consider this overpowered and unbalancing, but since you don't want to adapt to the governments in the game, and make them adapt to you instead here goes...

Name: The Scientific Method or Potassium Nitrate
Worker Efficiency: 150%
Hurry Method: Pay citizens
Corruption: Nuisance
War Weariness: None
Draft Rate: 1
Military Police Limit: 2
Unit Support Town/City/Metro: 2/4/6
Requires: Chemistry or Gunpowder

Thank you.
I'd rather talk about how a gov can be included as a late game gov, than how mine can't.
Like I said, I'm not saying mine should be it, it should be tweaked, but that's what forums are for, no? I recon you are someone who likes to think about ideas, rather to judge or criticise them.

Your recommendation. I like it. Why not. Push it back a little in tech, and add the commerce bonus and I would love it.

 

[IvanDolvich]

Ok, here is a thought; Put it the Late IA with Radio. - Propaganda broadcast on the radio keeps the people happy and productive. Make the Government only available with the building of a small wonder calle "Radio City Music Hall"

 

[Jingo7]

ur govt sounds dystopic, like some privatized, military corporate junta with everyone on steroids.