you can stop discussing this and start playing with a hidden date!
Counting years
- Thread starter Blasphemous
- Start date
Blasphemous
Graulich
That's great, but we still want event-driven timelining for the whole game!
I personally do NOT want an event driven timeline. I think its nice being able to say "Oh yeah look at me, I'm the Germany who's got gunpowder 100 years ahead of schedule" and such. I like being able to compare civ to real life and say yeah my civ sucked, or yeah my civ kicked Real Life's rear.
So I would make the event driven timeline a selectable option in an ini file or something. Perhaps a seperate version of whatever python controls the dates that we can just not put in the mod folder if we don't want it.
So I would make the event driven timeline a selectable option in an ini file or something. Perhaps a seperate version of whatever python controls the dates that we can just not put in the mod folder if we don't want it.
I think a whole event-driven timeline would be too complicated to do
Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio Dev
Rhye, I loved the eras system! Personally I found it much better than the year system. Time flows more freely, and I don´t find myself looking at the year and comparing my progress. One excellent side effect of this is that you don´t know when the other civs are going to appear, thus making preparations for their coming less common. Personally I would really love an option for complete eras system, with no years.
Well, you can still count the turns and know that Spain will come in at, say, turn #150... This is why I propose a range for appearance, say, turns 150-160 for Spain in my example... also, this way the order of Euro-civs could be variant
Surtur
Warlord
I must admit I like the system as it is now 
. Excellent job, Rhye 
. Excellent job, Rhye
Blasphemous
Graulich
Just like Elhoim said, you could keep the era system for the whole game. We can put together a highly detailed list of era, so that eras change every 10-30 turns, with each era triggered by about two techs. It could even be non-linear, with each era coming in at the appropriate time tech-wise and only some general rules for when it's too late for an era (in case certain techs are generally neglected for too long).Rhye said:
Surtur
Warlord
No please not... The era system is fine in the beginning but later I want to see the exact date.
Blasphemous
Graulich
Can you explain to me how "exact date" adds something positive to the game, except for it being something you're used to?Surtur said:
Head Serf
Emperor
I also support that the years are meerly hidden before calendar and that time unfolds normally after calender. Realistically, events do not control time! Time is a constant thing that is not effected by the actions of man at all. Just because some new tech (sailing for example) is discovered doesn't mean that suddenly it must be a certain year! The year came before the tech, not the other way. I don't know if my answer is very clear, but please do not change the current time too much for the sake of "perfect history".
Surtur
Warlord
Blasphemous said:
It just gives you a feeling of history which is in my opinion very important in civ4. The eras are already in the game (you enter an era by discovering certain techs) but I need an exact turn number e.g to look back in a game (250 AD I conquered Greece is just more precise than I conquered Greece in the Iron Age). Of course you could also count the turns but then again the "history feeling" is missing. The timeline is needed to document the course of the game and gives you the chance to compare your game with real history (e.g trying to establish the Roman Empire untill a certain date).
Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio Dev
Yeah, but you have to be looking for it, by counting the turn, and looking for them backwards in the victorie screen... When you see the years, you know by a glance how much time you have left until the appearance... Of course I would like semi random appearence time like you do, and by no means this was proposed to replace it.
I agree with you that it gives a feeling of history, but in a "looking back" or retrospective way. What I mean is that the Romans at that time didn´t say: "What year is it?" "450 before Christ" "And who is Christ??" "Some dude who is going to come in 450 years and free some people we still haven´t conquered...". Years are depicted in a very western retrospective history way, and while is nice to know how you are doing against history, sometimes I feel tied to it, very tied. It´s like: "It´s 1490! I must be discovering America with the Spanish!". With the eras system I felt free of the burden of history, and that is why I like it. I don´t say it must be this for everyone, that´s why I wanted it to be optional.
Also I found the system less subjective than the BC-AD, as eras are somewhat more common and shared than that dating system. It is funny to use the BC-AD when having Judaism as your state religion, as jews have a different dating system. Perhaps it would be great that the dating system changes depending on your religion or time era, and if you have no religion you use the "Common Era" instead of "Anno Domini".
After using the era system I found myself free of the burden of "living up" to history, and just played the game at my pace without knowing what will come or what I "had" to do. Please Rhye, make an option for using this system the whole game! Thanks!
NateDawgNY
Just Chillin'
It would be really cool if the calendar was tied to the religous system. Or, even to do things according to the "Common Era" if you don't have a state religion.
Blasphemous
Graulich
I agree that it's weird for tech to control the year number. It was a nifty idea, but I don't support it anymore. What I really want now is only detailed era display along with turn number display. Like Elhoim said so well, the era system frees you of the burden of history. You can still compare what happens when, but you don't have the option of totally accurate-looking comparisons with reality in a game what will never be accurately like reality. There's a discrepancy between the game and real history that cannot be fixed if you keep a system that counts years in relation to the birth of Christ, if for no other reason, then just because Christianity can start in a very broad range of time. And that is by no means the only problem with the current system.Head Serf said:
But "250 AD" is a meaningless thing in a world where events did not unfold just as they did in reality. A very certain chain of events led to years being numbered as they have been, and for instance, the game doesn't mirror the switch from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian. The numbers used in-game are simply meaningless if not event-driven as they were in reality (the pace never changed in reality, only the method of counting).Surtur said:
Another issue we have not discussed here is the way in-game "wars" (really highly hostile conflicts) often take decades if not centuries, when in reality wars can take just a few months. The hundred-year war was an exceptionally long one, not a trivially short one. If we eliminate counting of years, you can see things more reasonably and consider wars to be times of very heated conflicts with a few armed clashes and actual wars in them. You won't have "war from 567CE to 985CE", you'll just have a conflict spanning much of the middle ages. I wouldn't be against renaming in-game wars "hostility" ("Tokugawa has declared hostility on us!","Are you sure we should declare hostility on Montezuma?"), which makes much more sense on this scale.
Elhoim said:
I don't know how to make options
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
I think we ought to remember that this is only about preserving a feeling of immersion. There's a handfull of people who got pissed off that wonders were happening a few centuries too early, or a few centuries too late. Hiding the year was the easiest way to solve the problem.
Later in the game, with the wonders more spread out in the tree, it's a bit easier to get the timeline right. Hiding the ancient era (before Calendar) will hopefully resolve the rest.
Later in the game, with the wonders more spread out in the tree, it's a bit easier to get the timeline right. Hiding the ancient era (before Calendar) will hopefully resolve the rest.
dantrax, did you like the current implementation?
Elhoim
Iron Tower Studio Dev
I don´t know either... Perhaps asking the HOF team can help, as they made in game options for turning on and off full mods... Personally I´m happy with a file I have to replace, but a option to turn it on and off would be nice.
In my case is more than the wonders that are "out of place". Like the discovery of America to the "shortening" of years (jumps of 40 at the beggining to 1 per turn at the end). For me full eras would be a new and more enjoyable experience than the constant reminder of subjective years. But as I said before, it is only a matter of personal experience, so an option in this matter would be the best solution, as not everyone is as traumatized as me regarding things happening at the historical time.
Blasphemous
Graulich
It shouldn't be hard to at least create an "ugly" options system - an ".ini" type file where you can turn on non-default options with binary switches (1 or 0). Or if it's just one option, you can even make it so all you have to do is place a file called "noyears.txt" in a certain place and you get the eras system throughout the game.
