Crashing Multiplayer? - Info on Firewalls, Routers and Proxies

[Kzar]

This post is in response to those who can get into the game room and when the game launches, it kicks out to the main Civ3PTW screen and the game stops responding.

I have this problem as well and have done some troubleshooting. I am on a linksys router (using NAT) and WinXP Pro running 1.04f.

1) I have removed DHCP and enabled port forwarding. This did not help.
2) I have removed the router and pulled the cable modem directly into the computer (that is how badly I want to play). Didn't help.
3) Like Dr.Droid, I can connect and play just fine with only 1 other human opponent.

This leads me to believe that the issue has nothing to do with the router or NAT (of course you cannot host). Since it works with 1 human opponent and no more, I believe the problem to lie somewhere in the software controlling the multicast session (if the software multicasts, it may send the information sequentially to all of the IPs that are playing in the game). Since some people can play just fine, I am wondering if this is an OS compatiblity issue. Are all people on WinXP Pro and Win2K experiencing this? Is anyone that is running WInXP Pro or Win2K working just fine? Perhaps it is because of the NTFS file format. Many questions, no answers. Anyway, my 2 cents, please feel free to flame me if I am off base.

 

[Isak]

No reason to flame you - nothing off-base spotted

One question - was the error exactly the same regardless of which setup you used? Or were there minor variations (unable to get into the game room, getting to the staging window, etc)

And did you disable your software firewalls when you pulled the router off? Remember that WinXP has a built-in software firewall, and on top of that you may have installed one yourself, both of which need to be setup or disabled. The only way to properly disable a software firewall you installed yourself, is to go into the options and deselect that it starts up automatically when windows boots, and then re-boot your computer.

It should be possible to configure most software firewalls to allow the traffic the game needs, but for testing purposes you may consider turning it off totally, just to see if that helps.

Also consider the fact that the more people that are in your game, the larger is the risk that someone will be using the pirated copy of PtW that makes everyone's game crash. Be sure you can trust the people you're testing with.

 

[Kzar]

Isak,

Thanks for replying. Yes, the error was always the same. I do not have any firewall software installed. That XP has firewall software is news to me. Where is it, how do I get to it. I will disable or configure it correctly (although I doubt it is stopping any of the necessary ports). Most of the required ports are ethereal or session ports anyway.
As far as people in the game.... always works with 2 (as long as both have same version and retail software), and stops working with 3.

I do occasionally get another error, but I do not think it is network related. It is a Civilization3X.exe error. I will post the specifics the next time I get it, but I think that its a stability issue.

 

[Isak]

To deactivate the firewall in WindowsXP check out this Microsoft Support Guide

About the Civilization3x.exe error - that's what I got before I got my own router configured correctly - i would get into the staging window, but as soon as the game was launched by the host, i would pop out to the main setup screen, and get a Civilization3x.exe error....

 

[Kzar]

Isak,

Thanks, I will try that out and see what happens. In either case, you are a King among Men.

 

[Kzar]

Isak,

Looked at the XP built in firewall software. It was already disabled, so that is not the problem.

 

[alant]

Hi Kzar,

I am running windows XP pro, behind a linksys router, and a personal firewall running on my machine. I also run this laptop over a wireless network connection for those interested in doing that too...

Anyhows, I find I just disable my laptop's personal firewall (I run a third party product, not the windows built in firewall). I then on my linksys put my laptop in as the DMZ host. I don't bother with the port forwarding, since it does not seem to work for me even when following the instructions given in the readme.

Once it is in DMZ host with my personal firewall off, I have been able to play multiplayer games on the internet as long as everyone else has their firewalls off and everyone is on the same 1.04f patch.

THe big problem I have now though is its way too laggy to play. Something hopefully fixed in this next patch. Until then, I just play LAN games..

 

[delmar]

Originally posted by Venger

Finally, whoever thought Gamespy was a good way to do Internet play for this game should be FREAKING SHOT.

Reading the first few posts in this thread, I thought I must have misunderstood something. Thanks for the explanation...

Originally posted by Venger

I was understanding the patch or a future patch allows direct IP? If so, it should hopefully require fewer ports to be mapped.

Direct IP is there. Any idea which ports it is using? Is this Direct IP running over TCP at all?

When I click on the "Direct IP" button, it says "Enter IP address to connect to". I though it would ask me if I want to join an existing host or I want to be the host myself. Am I missing something? What IP address do I need to enter here?

 

[Isak]

@Kzar:

I hope your problems are fixed with patch 1.14f - if not, keep me posted.

@Alant:

Thanks for sharing the info

And you're not the first person I hear about, who have problems with the Linksys router port-forwarding feature. I know it can work, but from talking to people who use this router every day, I also know it often doesn't work. If I ever find a logical explanation for it, I will post it here.

@delmar:

Direct IP games use the TCP/IP protocol alright.

In the box you get, you need to enter the IP of the computer which is going to host your game, so you need to know this in advance. There is no 'List of games' feature in Direct IP, as this would require a service like Gamespy, so that would sort of remove the whole point of Direct IP.

 

[delmar]

Originally posted by Isak

@delmar:

Direct IP games use the TCP/IP protocol alright.

In the box you get, you need to enter the IP of the computer which is going to host your game, so you need to know this in advance. There is no 'List of games' feature in Direct IP, as this would require a service like Gamespy, so that would sort of remove the whole point of Direct IP.

Actually my question is how to set up a "host". As you say, I would expect that I don't need Gamespy for Direct IP. However, it appears to me that setting up a host for a Direct IP game works the same way as setting up a host for a Gamespy game. Now I happen to have a router that filters out everything that I don't know what is, and it seems that most of that crap that is (potentially?) required for Gamespy falls into that category as of now. And guess what: if I try to host a game without connection to Gamespy, Civ PTW just throws me out to the main menu (where you can select New Game, Quick Start, ..., Multiplayer).

Still hoping that I'm missing something...

 

[delmar]

Originally posted by Isak
@delmar:

Direct IP games use the TCP/IP protocol alright.

Btw: how do you know this? Which port(s)?

Edit: It's all in the readme.

On the server:

13139 (Custom UDP Pings)
6500 (Query Port)
2302 (DirectPlay)

On the client:
2302 (DirectPlay)

Edit2: After all it appears that all these protocols run over UDP. Can someone confirm?

 

[wtiberon]

Ok,
I read most of these post and I'm not sure what to make of them. I downloaded the new patch and still cannot play multiplayer. A screen comes up saying that I'm behind a firewall. I called my internet provider and he told me I was on a LAN connection with a NAT router and no WAN. He said that I cannot open any ports since the its a community on a router. Any ideas on how to solve this and please break translate to ****** because I don't know much about computers. My ISP begins with a 192. I appreciate any help you can provide.

 

[delmar]

wtiberon, one word: PBEM!

Check out this thread if you have some free time during the next 4 days:

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37342



Anyway, back to the topic...

Originally posted by wtiberon
Ok,
I read most of these post and I'm not sure what to make of them. I downloaded the new patch and still cannot play multiplayer. A screen comes up saying that I'm behind a firewall.

I am really impressed by the fact that such a screen comes up. Any idea which application produces it?

I called my internet provider and he told me I was on a LAN connection with a NAT router and no WAN.

When your service provider says there is a NAT router, he most likely means PAT (port address translation). Simply put this means that from the outside, your computer seems to be using a different IP-address and different port number(s) than it really is. Now if I gather and put together the pieces correctly, then that genius who defined the DirectPlay protocol (which is used to play online games) defined it in such a way that every computer involved in the game must use the exact same port: 2302. Unfortunately, that thing that your service provider refers to as "NAT router" most probably changes the port numbers for your PC therefore you won't be able to play online games (again, if all my assumptions above are correct).

Edit: To further expand on this, the problem is that your Civ PTW on your PC starts out with port 2302 and then the NAT box is changing it, and therefore your connection will be refused by Civ PTW running on the hosting computer. You would need to convince the NAT box not to change the port if it is 2302. In theory this is possible but I am not surprised that your provider refused to do it.

Delmar

 

[Isak]

Originally posted by wtiberon
A screen comes up saying that I'm behind a firewall. I called my internet provider and he told me I was on a LAN connection with a NAT router and no WAN. He said that I cannot open any ports since the its a community on a router.

The warning is given by GamespyArcade, and I'm afraid there's probably no way around the router, as it sounds like you don't have a personal router, but your ISP have all their customers behind the same router placed on your ISP's end. That's a very popular solution for many Cable ISP's.

This means that you don't get your own unique WAN (Public) IP-adress, but instead acquire a LAN IP adress from your ISP's router like every other customer they have. It is similar to being on a Local Area Network (at work, school, universities, etc.). So Delmar is right - PBEM and single player is probably the only things you'll be able to play as long as you have that ISP

@Delmar:

UDP: I can't confirm all the ports, as I'm not at home to check right now, but I can confirm that some of the ports can be set to UDP - I just don't remember which

 

[wtiberon]

Ok well thanks anyway. I'm going to cancel my internet connection and get something else. Could someone tell me the best way to go for the best MP performance.

 

[mOoK®]

Unfortunately, that thing that your service provider refers to as "NAT router" most probably changes the port numbers.

Delmar

PAT (Port Address Translation) doesn't change the actual port number. It changes the SRC (source) port number to something >1023. It's how it keeps track of all the private IPs behind it. (Only high security applications like IPSEC look at SRC ports), 90% of applications don't care what the SRC port is, because PAT is widely used.

In fact, if the PC you are on now has a private IP address, (192.x.x.x, 10.x.x.x, 172.x.x.x), most of you will be using PAT.

So in this case all the ports would be correct in their destination and port number, however, the issue with PAT is the same issue people are having with Firewalls.

The Host machine must be able to reach the clients with packets that are initiated by the host.

In the case of the firewall, it is blocking incomming packets by design, but the NAT'ing router is blocking incoming packets because it doesn't know where they should go. (That is why the router changes the SRC port, with a unique port, so it can remember who sent the packet and forward replies back to the client.) Traffic initiated by someone else, like a host trying to find you, would be blocked.

The solution, (if you have access to said router/firewall), is to Port Forward, as I am sure has been mentioned.

Otherwise, find a new ISP.

Additionally, from my packet sniffs, I have found another port which I believe helps if allow incomming.

22472 UDP

 

[cavemanf16]

Thanks Isak for setting up this thread.

I do find it pretty sad that PtW needs dedicated ports to play the multiplayer game. Half-Life is 4 years old and works perfectly fine with NO port forwarding junk on my firewall/router.

I use http://www.coyotelinux.com/Coyote Linux to act as my home network's firewall/router. It is a single 3.5 floppy disk version of Linux that runs on pretty much any x86 POS computer. Anyways, it does all the things a commercially available router/firewall from Linksys or whoever would do, but all you need to do is download it and run it on an old computer with a couple NIC's installed.

I'll figure out how to set up a DHCP/port-forwarded solution on my Coyote Linux box over the next few days (yes, it IS possible with Coyote to be doing DHCP + port-forwarding to your internal network, but if you're port-forwarding to a computer, you do have to assign that computer a static IP). I will post my findings and a "how-to" document on my homepage, and update this post of the location of that page. Thanks everyone!

 

[mOoK®]

Just FYI, you don't have to have a static IP to be the host for static NAT.

Most DHCP servers keep a list MAC addresses, this let's it assign the same address again and again.

Using static addresses however, is preffered.

 

[Plux]

Just wanted to let you guys know that I've succeeded in both hosting and joining games this afternoon at gamespy for several hours although I am behind a NAT. This is my situation: my pc on a local static IP (192.168.x.x), and a winroute router in the LAN that hooks me up to the internet. I used the following portmaps that worked for me (not sure if all of these are necessary though):

- 80 TCP (???)
- 2302 TCP/UDP (Directplay)
- 6500 TCP/UDP (Query port)
- 13139 TCP/UDP (CUstom UDP Pings)
- 27900 TCP/UDP (Heartbeat)
- 47264 TCP/UDP (???)
- 60000/65535 TCP/UDP (???)

I got these from looking here and in the readme so it could be even some of these could be skipped (I guess the ones with ???, haven't tried without them yet). I did have som trouble if also mapped some other gamespy ports so you should leave those NATted that are for gamespy but not on my list!!

Good luck. Civ3 multiplayer rulezzz..

 

[Plux]

Hmm, I checked again.. as suspected you also don't need to map 80, 47264, 60000/65535..

So only:

- 2302 TCP/UDP (Directplay)
- 6500 TCP/UDP (Query port)
- 13139 TCP/UDP (CUstom UDP Pings)
- 27900 TCP/UDP (Heartbeat)

Hope this helps some folks out