Creating your own Goverment (can't wait!)

[Phoenix_56721]

I don’t know, I might be alone in this but when I heard that you could create your own government types in Civ.4 that’s what really got me excited about playing it more then anything. That combined with the modability of Civ.4 should really give endless option for creating your very own very unique government. I look forward to endless hours just in trying to create the right government for my style of play and tested it against other players online!!

What do you think? Am I alone in this?

 

[Princeps]

You can create your own governments in CivIII too, you just need to use the editor.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

I think designing a unique government will be awesome. You are definitely not alone. As naziassbandit said, you can mod governments in Civ 3, but it leaves you with a feeling that you've just cheated. Ex: Ultimatism, a government I made once. Beyond a Facist unit support, communal corruption, high worker speeds, no ww, etc. etc.
Civ 4 will force the custom government system to be fair.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

Ya i know but you cant play it online unless other people have the same files on their computer. And having to email poeple and get them to load your stuff is a pain. Now everyone will be able to customize their goverments in-game without messing around, and there are bound to be many popular mod's with many different goverments options buillt right in them!

 

[Slax]

I really don't get it. It doesn't seem exciting at all. It seems to me there will not be too much choice until you have gained all the techs to use all the civics options. Up to that point there will probably be obvious selections. Even with all the choices, very likely it will be easy to figure out a decent peace-time and war-time government and stick with them.

Sorry to be so negative. I hope I am proved wrong.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

I really don't get it. It doesn't seem exciting at all. It seems to me there will not be too much choice until you have gained all the techs to use all the civics options. Up to that point there will probably be obvious selections. Even with all the choices, very likely it will be easy to figure out a decent peace-time and war-time government and stick with them.

Sorry to be so negative. I hope I am proved wrong.

I dont know if the choices will be that obvious, and selecting just a peace time or war time stlye goverment to me wont be what im looking for, I want a good all around goverment that can coupe with changes as they arise! and if the main game doesnt really give you that kind of play, then I hope the modding comunity will!!!

 

[Urederra]

I suppose there will be like in Alpha Centauri, where there are some options that are not allowed if you have a particular trait. So, my guess is that is not going to be a goverment type that works fine in all the circumstances, but you have to figure out which goverment is going to be the best for you depending on which leader you have, his or her traits, the number of types of food and luxuries you have, if you are on war or in peace, and what type of victory you are aiming at.

So, a lot of things to take into account, it is gonna be difficult to figure out which goverment type to choose among the 3125? possible ones.

Modifying the goverment by changing the software expecifications is a bit of cheating. I have made it on Alpha centauri, where you can modify the civics so your fraction has better options to win. E. g. changing the free market economy option so it doesn't have as bad morale penalties as the default option. That gives a huge advantage to the morganities and if you are playing as them, it is much easier to win.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

So, a lot of things to take into account, it is gonna be difficult to figure out which goverment type to choose among the 3125? possible ones.

Wow,,, I didnt know there where going to be that many. I'm really getting excited now!

 

[Lord_Iggy]

An enlightened communist system with the advantages of democracy!

 

[Urederra]

Wow,,, I didnt know there where going to be that many. I'm really getting excited now!

You should read the Civrules's Civilization IV pre-release information
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/

In total, there are 25 Civics options. There will be five categories and five options per each category. The five categories are: Government, Legal, Labor, Economy, and Religion. Some of the known Civics options are: Free Market, Environment, Slavery, Free Speech, Conscription, Emancipation, Religious Tolerance and the Nationhood (it magnifies culture accumulation). So, if there are 5 categories and 5 options per category, that makes 5 * 5 * 5 * 5 * 5 = 3125 "governments" Provided there is not any option not allowed if you have a particular trait.

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/#Control

 

[ThePersian]

I love the new change, it will be a tactical brakethourgh in changing your government to match certian stages/ characteristics of your civilization.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

You should read the Civrules's Civilization IV pre-release information
http://www.civfanatics.com/civ4/info/

Thanks I did read it awhile ago but never really did the math, I went back to read though it again, waiting around for November 15th is killing me.

 

[SmartJock2112]

The way I see it it's going to be similar to SMAC (I think someone mentioned that). Since there is the defualt "despot" option which will probably never be used after the other options are availible, so there's really *only* 4^5 = 1024 "non-primative" choices. Also some will choices will probably just be silly. You wouldn't use some combinations, that just wouldn't be effective choices.

So maybe 20 effective choices or so, maybe more, (just a random guess really) but it gives a much greater personal choice at any rate

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I think that there are two things which Slax hasn't considered in Civ4 governmental systems.
The first is that-as Urederra rightly pointed out-the leader of the Civ you choose, and his/her preferred Civics options, will have a significant impact on the kinds of combinations you can have-thus greatly reducing the boring old Dem=peace, Comm=war situation from Civ2 and Civ3.
The second thing is that civics options-along with religion-are going to major elements of diplomatic relations, and thus who your neighbours are (and how much you fear/respect them) will greatly influence your ultimate civics combinations.
As for not having much choice until after certain techs are discovered....so how is this any worse than in previous games??? In civ3, you had to wait until almost the end of the Ancient age before you got to change out of Despotism-often resulting in a 2000 year wait-only to be almost immediately in the position of having a choice between a good war government and a good peace government (Rep vs. Monarchy)-BORING!!! Given the kinds of techs available at the start of the Civ4 tech tree, and the fact that each tech now only requires a single prerequisite, I get the sense that at least some of the new civics options will become available in the earliest parts of the game-and allow for greater variety of government types than in the ancient age of Civ3.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

 

[Urederra]

The way I see it it's going to be similar to SMAC (I think someone mentioned that). Since there is the defualt "despot" option which will probably never be used after the other options are availible, so there's really *only* 4^5 = 1024 "non-primative" choices. Also some will choices will probably just be silly. You wouldn't use some combinations, that just wouldn't be effective choices.

So maybe 20 effective choices or so, maybe more, (just a random guess really) but it gives a much greater personal choice at any rate

Yes, You are right, I suppose that the default options are like despotism in Civ III, you have to get rid of them as soon as possible. so 1024 is more realistic number, although you always can choose the default ones.

 

[Superkrest]

i am terribly worried that the civics will be really liimited or skewed towards a certain govenment type.. i think fraxis is smarter then this but who knows..i want to be able to go as far left or far right as you can be. lets just pray its not stuck in the middle with civics.

 

[Virote_Considon]

You know, I hope that the origional starting civic options do offer some sort of advantage. Be it a special sort of unit, eg. a sacrificial one, better Millitary Police and supported units (If they are still in)...

 

[Sub]

Or maybe have their benefits improve once you discover a certain technology? I dunno, it just seems like a waste to have useless civic options in the end of the game just because they were designed for use in the beggining.

 

[Phoenix_56721]

Given the kinds of techs available at the start of the Civ4 tech tree, and the fact that each tech now only requires a single prerequisite, I get the sense that at least some of the new civics options will become available in the earliest parts of the game-and allow for greater variety of government types than in the ancient age of civ3

I totally agree with you, from what I understand of the new tech. tree you can now research in completely different directions, making your civilization unique. I don’t see why this wouldn’t also apply to your government early on in the game letting you shape your government form the start!

 

[jwijn]

Or maybe have their benefits improve once you discover a certain technology? I dunno, it just seems like a waste to have useless civic options in the end of the game just because they were designed for use in the beggining.

Well, just look at our modern society. Certain elements, like serfdom and vassalage have (for the most part) been eschewed in favour of more practical forms of government. However, the concept of a representative government has been around since the Roman Senate (and probably earlier, but I never much liked ancient history) and free market capitalism has been a domineering force since the Dutch East India company.

That's the glory of the civics system in Civ4, you must mix and match the various aspects of government to create the best form of governance for your particular situation. If history is any example, chances are that you will not remain in the despotic state that you begin with, but perhaps you will find the need to become a pacifist tribalistic communist state. What it all boils down to is: every civic option will only be as useful or as useless as you make it, with the goal being that the final combination is greater than the sum of its parts.