creative tech bee-lines?

[gaash2]

I realize on diety there probably isn't that much flexibility in approach, but on immortal, what are some fun 'unorthodox' tech bee-lines you guys have used for victory?

 

[intutama]

Well not really a beeline, but archer+catapult is "fun" to try once (if you like this kind of fun). Going Chukonu rush with china is also fun (protip: in case you don't have metal and can't trade for it, just use the world builder). Or cataphract rush with the byzantine (there's a not so old Noble Club game that allowed for that)... Generally rushing with your civ UU is kind of fun, even if it's most of the time not the best way to play.

 

[gaash2]

i've never gotten the phract rush to work that well for me sadly ... but archer+catapult I've actually used a few times pretty successfully. I think in one of my best games i archapulted isabella with gilgamesh (one of few situations where protective is actually not useless) early on and never looked back. I've tried biology bee-line if you can call that a bee-line with sury one time to see how fast I could get a bunch of huge cities but got lazy to finish the game.

 

[Rusten]

Not sure how unorthodox it is anymore, but lightbulbing early machinery+engineering with civs that start without fishing is always fun.

Works for deity level too.

 

[gaash2]

carrack invasion from isolation with joao? Seems unlikely to work, but you could get to optics a fair amount quicker if you don't save scientists for astro.

 

[elitetroops]

I've done a funky Janissary beeline a couple of times. It's pretty easy on lower levels, on immortal it could work if you can settle on stone and have some gold nearby. Must be done with Suleiman. Build super fast stonehenge, use GProphet to bulb Theology, then oracle Paper. Next you can bank gold while making two GS for bulbing edu and finally tech Gunpowder. I did a write-up once of a game where I got BC Gunpowder this way on deity. Unfortunately the image links don't work anymore, so that thread is kind of useless.

 

[Fippy]

Played a game with Izuul where we beelined Zaras Oromos, and won with mainly just them on deity standard

Looked for saves, end https://forums.civfanatics.com/attachments/matt-ad-1030-civbeyondswordsave.482327/

Start https://forums.civfanatics.com/attachments/zara2-civbeyondswordsave.481033/

Shortly before first attack https://forums.civfanatics.com/attachments/matt-ad-0325-civbeyondswordsave.482037/

 

[Olafeson]

Definetly making my mini colony with 2-3 cities, sometimes more, on water maps with islands. As soon as i get astronomy and find a decent island for some cities i load up 1-2 galeons and send em out to make a colony.

It is super useless regarding efficiency, but i just like my mini vassals, they are so cute. Like a pet.

Beelining Astronomy, like in the current team game.
Or trying to found as many religions as possible and build the specific shrines of each one and spread the religion to a lot of cities.

 

[gaash2]

I should revisit the musketman rush strategies .. I tried a musketeer rush one time but didn't have the production to go along with early gunpowder date.

 

[unas876]

I mean, you can do a Gunpowder rush, but what's the point really? CR Maces are way stronger, and none of the unique Musketmen are really all that impressive. Janissaries maybe, but really? Muskets don't get City Raider promotions, so really Maces are probably gonna be just as good on offense and the bonus on defense isn't really good enough.
Musketeers? Good support unit, but you're not gonna win a war rushing with them on Immortal or Deity. You're gonna need siege, which neglects the 2 movement.

Overall, Gunpowder seems to be so weird in the tech tree that its not really gonna be worth it to beeline it. Either Engineering will be sufficient or Cuirs are called for.

Carrack rushes with Portugal seem to be a good idea, but they look better than they smell in my experience. What good are you gonna get from it? If you're gonna settle new islands, you're gonna need Astronomy. Otherwise you won't be able to profit from the new cities. Or in other words: in most any game that would make early Optics profitable, getting Astro right after Optics is gonna be the most powerful play. And in most cases you're gonna get Astro via double bulb as soon as you get Optics if you can wing it.

I don't have experience with all the UUs and beelining them but as far as I can tell, pretty much the only one that makes beelining it worthwhile would be the Praetorian. If you play the Romans and you go for IW real early, that can make it worthwhile in that sense. Of course you can rush with other UUs, but I wouldn't call it beelining for a tech if you're going for AH early with Egypt, since it's such an early tech that the term "beelining" is quite a stretch.

I have done Archerpult, I have done an Engineering bulb, but I can't say I've done anything out of the ordinary like that in order to win the game.

 

[intutama]

Well it's all about fun and doing something different, not especially effective. But yeah, every time I try to musketman rush I am brutally reminded of how crap they are.

 

[Anysense]

@unas876 can you upgrade old metal units to musketeers? I remember upgrading CR2 and CR3 samurais to grenadiers and rifles, used to have a lot of fun as Toku
Still musketeers ignore walls, don't they? BTW, you can use 2-move siege. Very efficient, although I'd rather use it with cuirassiers.

 

[Lennier]

In base BtS, no siege is 2-move until mobile artillery. But if you've got mobile artillery, curs and cavs are obsolete.

You could attach a GG to a siege unit ad select the additional-movement promotion (morale, if I recall correctly), but that will get you one siege unit that won't get you much.

 

[Fippy]

Morale siege are still valuable for Cuirs i.e. thou, you will not let them attack but bombard city defense, and gain a small % amount of better combat odds on each attack.

 

[Anysense]

It depends on the circumstances. Imperialistic makes things much easier and even one 2-move trebuchet with accuracy makes big difference by 1 or 2 turns of bombardment when there are no walls, which happens very often. That, of course, depends on the AI in question. That's kinda situational, but can be really awesome at times, because it saves you so much time.

 

[gaash2]

I mean, you can do a Gunpowder rush, but what's the point really? CR Maces are way stronger, and none of the unique Musketmen are really all that impressive. Janissaries maybe, but really? Muskets don't get City Raider promotions, so really Maces are probably gonna be just as good on offense and the bonus on defense isn't really good enough.
Musketeers? Good support unit, but you're not gonna win a war rushing with them on Immortal or Deity. You're gonna need siege, which neglects the 2 movement.

Overall, Gunpowder seems to be so weird in the tech tree that its not really gonna be worth it to beeline it. Either Engineering will be sufficient or Cuirs are called for.

Carrack rushes with Portugal seem to be a good idea, but they look better than they smell in my experience. What good are you gonna get from it? If you're gonna settle new islands, you're gonna need Astronomy. Otherwise you won't be able to profit from the new cities. Or in other words: in most any game that would make early Optics profitable, getting Astro right after Optics is gonna be the most powerful play. And in most cases you're gonna get Astro via double bulb as soon as you get Optics if you can wing it.

I don't have experience with all the UUs and beelining them but as far as I can tell, pretty much the only one that makes beelining it worthwhile would be the Praetorian. If you play the Romans and you go for IW real early, that can make it worthwhile in that sense. Of course you can rush with other UUs, but I wouldn't call it beelining for a tech if you're going for AH early with Egypt, since it's such an early tech that the term "beelining" is quite a stretch.

I have done Archerpult, I have done an Engineering bulb, but I can't say I've done anything out of the ordinary like that in order to win the game.

I use archerpult every once in a while when I don't have metal.

No clue re:Carrack. Just thinking if one can do something unusual with them, but I probably agree with you. When I play isolated I always save the scientists for quick astro soon after Optics, but if I didn't save them I could get optics a lot quicker and then maybe even 2 troops / ship can capture a 'port city' on the other land masses to make the real war much easier later. Don't know if it would work though.

Haven't played rome in a while but last time I played rome I did a 'praetapult'. One of my favorite thing about praets is less how early the come and more how long they remain useful.

 

[unas876]

As far as I know, you can't upgrade any City Raider units to Muskets. Although it is fun later down the tech tree, I agree. Go for medieval warfare and if you do it right, later upgrade all those CR Maces etc to Super-Grenadiers or Rifles.

I've never actually tried the 2 movement siege idea. But as for using it with Musketeers, are you actually gonna have Engineering by the time you wanna attack? I forget how that worked. In any case, I imagine it would be best with an IMP leader and your target shouldnt be PRO, CRE or a wonder builder because if they are your two movement Trebs aren't gonna be enough to really do much.
And I suppose if you were doing the Gunpowder rush, you'd do that right off the bat, as your first war in the game making it difficult to get GGs before you attack. An interesting idea for Cuirs though, for sure!

maybe even 2 troops / ship can capture a 'port city' on the other land masses to make the real war much easier later. Don't know if it would work though.

Also an interesting approach that I hadn't really thought about. I suppose there could be some niche scenarios in which you could use that, maybe on the slower speeds on certain map types? Not sure, but I'd still say Carracks are one of the worst UUs.

Haven't played rome in a while but last time I played rome I did a 'praetapult'. One of my favorite thing about praets is less how early the come and more how long they remain useful.

Yeah Praets are great all around, but if we're talking about beelines I guess you could just use them solo without going all the way to Construction. I seem to recall having done that in an old game where I was boxed in by warmongers. Although I could have dreamt that... Anyways, if an Axe rush is impossible or bad, you can go to war without risking a DoW before reaching Construction.

​

 

[sampsa]

I don't know if this is exactly a tech beeline, but a late BC or early AD golden age running caste+pacifism offers interesting options. You need to have bulbed philo and another to start the golden age though (music artist? oracle prophet?). Certainly the "main line" is to get 3 GS and bulb 2*edu and lib, but you can also go for GMs for trade missions (mass upgrades?) or CS bulb. MC is also bulbable with a GM (feels like a too cheap tech though) and so is machinery with a GS if you don't have fishing or if you happen to get a GE. All this can lead to fast access to maces even without a high start.

 

[gaash2]

I don't know if this is exactly a tech beeline, but a late BC or early AD golden age running caste+pacifism offers interesting options. You need to have bulbed philo and another to start the golden age though (music artist? oracle prophet?). Certainly the "main line" is to get 3 GS and bulb 2*edu and lib, but you can also go for GMs for trade missions (mass upgrades?) or CS bulb. MC is also bulbable with a GM (feels like a too cheap tech though) and so is machinery with a GS if you don't have fishing or if you happen to get a GE. All this can lead to fast access to maces even without a high start.

Could be interesting. My diplo skills are not good enough to try teching purely based on economy as long as possible (e.g. education, printing press, type stuff instead of gun powder, engineering etc.)