Cristo Redentor, spies and forcing civics

[CloudedSun]

Anyone else tried this nasty little trick? Build the Cristo Redentor wonder. Send some spies into a rival's city. Use CR to quick switch to really bad civics (eg despotism, barbarism, etc). Use the spies to force your rival to adopt those same bad civics, then use CR to switch back to your original civics in the same turn. You can do the same thing with religions.

I've tried this trick a few times, and it's really useful for crippling someone's economy. Normally spies and forcing civics is just a way of bringing a rival round to your way of thinking, but with this you can wreak havoc.

 

[Moxxa]

So when you build CR you don't have to wait 5 turns between civic and religion changes? That's definetly very powerful. You could be all religions and civics at once. Just convert to the religion and choice civics of the person you're dealing with at the moment, trade, then switch back. There are probably many more powerful and creative applications for this wonder.

 

[sumit1207]

I haven't tried the influence civics mission. Does it change all of the opponents civics to your own, or say, just one category? It seems a bit overpowered to bring the AI into 5 turns of anarchy, 5 turns of useless civics, and 5 MORE turns of anarchy!

 

[CloudedSun]

So when you build CR you don't have to wait 5 turns between civic and religion changes

Entirely correct. It basically gives you the spiritual trait of no anarchy, plus you can switch civics and religions 100 times a turn if you want. Of course, you still have to have the tech to do so or a religion in at least one of your cities.

Does it change all of the opponents civics to your own, or say, just one category?

Just one category per mission. But if you have enough spies and espionage points you can force them to change everything in one turn. Functionally, it's very similar to asking them to switch in diplomacy, except of course they don't get a say in it...

 

[playshogi]

The biggest problem with changing civics with Cristo Redentor is if your cities become unhappy the AI resets your citizens. For example, dropping to slavery at a time when everyone is using emancipation. When you restore the original civic, you then have to cycle through all your cities and reset your citizens to the way you had them before the switch. The AI Governor has a fondness now, of making spy citizens instead the science and engineer citizens I had been using before the switch.

 

[flamingzaroc121]

Entirely correct. It basically gives you the spiritual trait of no anarchy, plus you can switch civics and religions 100 times a turn if you want. Of course, you still have to have the tech to do so or a religion in at least one of your cities.

i thought that was only if you have Spiritual and CR

EDIT nevermind i just checked, you are right

 

[pigswill]

Does this mean with with CR you could switch to slavery, do lots of whipping then switch back to emancipation in the same turn?

 

[Lord_Azazel]

Does this mean with with CR you could switch to slavery, do lots of whipping then switch back to emancipation in the same turn?

that would be just way cool,
back to reality, has any nation ever used spies to change the civics in other nations in the real world? sounds a bit off, but please educate me if I'm wrong

 

[karlkrlarsson]

Intresting thought Azazel. I guess you could make many cases for this happening. Lenin going into russia and establishing communism perhaps. Or the french revolution changing from monarchy to representation. You yourself, Che, went to countries in latin America and tried to do the same.

I guess there are always groups in all nations that wants their leaders to adopt some new policy. Often they get funded from outside sources.

KK

 

[CloudedSun]

Does this mean with with CR you could switch to slavery, do lots of whipping then switch back to emancipation in the same turn?

You certainly can. In effect, CR gives you permanent access to drafting, whipping and rush buying.

has any nation ever used spies to change the civics in other nations in the real world?

For sure. It's the ingame equivalent of messing with someone else's election, or with the succession to a royal throne.

 

[vodlaian]

that would be just way cool,
back to reality, has any nation ever used spies to change the civics in other nations in the real world? sounds a bit off, but please educate me if I'm wrong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_y_TjO44Rx0

 

[PimpyMicPimp]

I've done this as well! The CR can be a pretty decent offensive tool, great for diplomacy, and a boon for micromanaging since you can whip, buy, whatever all in the same turn. It has to be one of my favourite wonders.

 

[Infantry#14]

Woah! Now I have a new favorite wonder.

 

[AlessioCerci]

Also if some idiot comes along and asks you to adopt their fave civic, you can just accept then change back again 2 seconds later.

 

[UncleJJ]

CR is a micromanager's ultimate dream tool. You can use it to switch civics several times in one turn. This leads to the concepts of instant civic groups and end-of-turn civic groups.

Instant civics are used to:
a) rush buy some buildings or units using just US to inject hammers into selected cities.
b) draft troops with Theocracy giving a promotion
c) diplomatic manouvers switching civics and religions (although positive aspects take time to build negative aspects are removed immediately). Once arranged they stay in place for several turns.

End of Turn civics are those that affect production, research and GPPs.
Production bonusses from normal hammers, whipping and chopping for units (Police State +25% Military units) and buildings (Organised Religion) can effectively give more hammers.
US gives hammers with towns
Free Speech gives +2 commerce with towns
Vassalage (+2 exp) and Theocracy (+2 exp) give better quality units
Nationhood gives +25% EPs
Pacifism gives +100% GPPs
Mercantilism, Free Trade, State Property and Environmentalism affect trade routes and several other important game effects.

Obviously only one set of End of Turn civics can be used but that doesn't have to be the same set every turn and different cities can be doing several things at once on successive turns. For instance; one turn a city could be working maximum food tiles to fill its granary (and not care much what the civics are) and the next turn it could maximise the number of merchants it runs, starving the city severely, but the civics could be Caste System, Pacifism and perhaps Representation. Several cities could be doing that to make GPs (about twice as fast for a non philosophical civ) for another Golden Age or for a corporation, while other cities could be cranking out military units with good experience on alternate turns or building infrastructure.

I could go on detailing many other combinations but I'll let you think of them yourself. Needless to say it is one of my favourite new wonders and rivals the Mausoleum in terms of its game altering ability.

 

[Enoch Root]

I used a spy to influence Sitting Bull's religion: I thought that I would only change one city's religion, but instead managed to convert him to my religion

Btw, has anyone been able to perform the influence culture mission?

 

[Bast]

This is a DREAM wonder. Just got it for the first time playing as Victoria.

But I don't think I will try that nasty trick. It's just not worth it. I feel it's a bit on the cheating side. Besides we are #1 and my ally Catherine is #2.

 

[ladiesman]

Just seems broken to me.....I wouldn't use it. Exploiting a glitch in the game just isn't fun to me.

IMHO, the "influence civics" mission for the spy should allow to choose which civic you want, though. You wouldn't have to resort to this, and it would make sense. Like if your enemy is a vast seafaring empire relying on foreign trade for their economy, might want to stick them with Mercantilism. It won't hold for long, so the anarchy is really the best benefit.

And yes, this has happened in real life. Beyond people within a country starting something, the CIA has admitted to meddling with south american countries in the 60's. I'm sure during the cold war there were alot of spy battles in countries on the edge of capitalism and communism. Or even in the 1930's the Nazi's had the German-American Bund, which was working to change America to National Socialism.

 

[Virulent]

Another nice CR trick would be if you corp spammed a rival and they switched to Mercantilism/State Property to avoid the maintenance fee. Switch to Environmentalism (25% extra corp maintenance), force a civc change and then switch yourself to Free Market or something.

 

[Devil Inside]

that would be just way cool,
back to reality, has any nation ever used spies to change the civics in other nations in the real world? sounds a bit off, but please educate me if I'm wrong

sort of...it is a matter of public record that CIA affiliated bankers intentionally bought Soviet Rubles in the mid-1980's in order to inflate their value, as the Soviets had a closed market. they would buy the money at discounted rates from the Chinese/Finns/Yugoslavians, and then reintroduce the cash through covert means into the Russian economy. this had a devastating effect on the value of the Russian Ruble.

i suppose that would sort of count as *send a spy into moscow to change from state property to free market*.

also, in the 1950's, the USA/UK intelligence agencies went into Iran to "foment unhappiness"...."People are telling us of your villainy!!" x24
this resulted in the Shah of Iran coming into power..a change in civics soon followed, and the oil was privatized again, into the control of western corporations.