Cristo Redentor, spies and forcing civics

[gettingfat]

I think CR is broken. Allowing unlimited civic switches within the same turn is just plain wrong. After all, this is only a statue of Jesus Christ, not Christ himself

 

[Hawe Hawe]

I think its broken and should be patched: further there should be a difference wether the owner is spiritual or not. Maybe one turn intervals for spiritual civs and five turns for non-spiritual. Even then the force civics strategy via espionage would be strong, because large empires require so many anarchy rounds for switches while the CR-owner doesn't.
Among those forced switches two could be especially fatal:
1. a switch to environmentalism with widespread corporations.
2. a switch to pacifism, because the AI already in the normal gameprocess exaggerates the military buildup.

 

[FeelGood]

If with CR, we are still forced with 5 turn civic changes, then why would we waste 1000 hammers to build it for nothing? This would be similar to Spiritual - no anarchy during civic changes but still with 5-turn limit. Then, Spiritual need not CR at all.

Maybe if we still want limit, CR should allow civic changes once per turn. Furthermore, for scenarios like above:
1. a switch to environmentalism with widespread corporations. - fix AI for going corp-spree
2. a switch to pacifism, because the AI already in the normal gameprocess exaggerates the military buildup. - fix this AI behavior. AIs should take its economy or actually planning for war before building up military.

Espionage need EP and you need time to build it. Furthermore, once you spend the EP, it may drop below AIs EP which will increase further the cost together with counterespionage. Therefore, an increase in espionage cost is enough to cater the exploit.

BTW, courthouse in capital helps a lot if we have lots of cities or have some corps in there.

That's my 2 cents!

 

[scorryuk]

Couldn`t resist using this on my enemies! How I laughed as I toyed with the Americans, sending their government back to the Stone Age. But the immediate effects seemed a minor hiccup in the grand scheme of things and when I went to repeat this a few turns later I was only able to select best civics- if i changed and went to my spy again, the list of available civics got shorter. Perhaps not such an exploit after all?

 

[tempuraki]

Instant civics are used to:
a) rush buy some buildings or units using just US to inject hammers into selected cities.
b) draft troops with Theocracy giving a promotion
c) diplomatic manouvers switching civics and religions (although positive aspects take time to build negative aspects are removed immediately). Once arranged they stay in place for several turns.

you forgot the forgotten civic: serfdom. Switch to serfdom before any worker action and get stuffs done 50% faster. Not really a game breaker especially in the late game, but certainly can be useful rebuilding the empty lots in your newly conquered land.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

This topic is funny because the 5 turn restriction didn't exist in any form when Civ4 was still new.

Then some Roman posted a deity game where she constantly switched civics to keep herself in perpetual anarchy, thus getting rid of all maintenance costs, while chopping swarms of praetorians to roll over everyone and capture cities for a super early conquest or domination win, I don't remember which. Some mod saw the thread, freaked out and blew a gasket in it, and then BAM, in the next installment (I forget if this was a patch or Warlords) the 5-turn restriction was there. We never even got to abuse the late game possibilities of not having that mechanic till now because some cheesemonger ruined it for us.

 

[kniteowl]

Why don't they just make it you can only force a Civ to change only 1 of it's civics and you can only do it every 10 turns, or every 20 turns, there should be a time gap where you're not allowed to force civic changes on the AI.

 

[Spearthrower]

This topic is funny because the 5 turn restriction didn't exist in any form when Civ4 was still new.

Then some Roman posted a deity game where she constantly switched civics to keep herself in perpetual anarchy, thus getting rid of all maintenance costs, while chopping swarms of praetorians to roll over everyone and capture cities for a super early conquest or domination win, I don't remember which. Some mod saw the thread, freaked out and blew a gasket in it, and then BAM, in the next installment (I forget if this was a patch or Warlords) the 5-turn restriction was there. We never even got to abuse the late game possibilities of not having that mechanic till now because some cheesemonger ruined it for us.

Monkeyfinger - you're right about the Roman Deity game, but the 5 turn restriction was always there.

The player of that game had to switch between enough different civics for it to take 5 turns to change..... so every 5 turns, the player changed all 5 civics and stayed in anarchy for 5 turns.... it was a core part of the strategy.