Crusaders, crusaders everywhere (and other random thoughts)

Kilrathi

Chieftain
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Messages
37
I'm playing .33f for the first time (having finally won a long game on .32), as the Order-loving "good" Calabim. For starts, the Calabim are fantastic; once I bee-lined vampires and have a few of them, plus a vampiric Valin Phanuel rampaging across the countryside, it's become a matter of not "if?" but "who?" to attack next. I've been enjoying taking out all the evildoers (the Sheaim just fell in three turns) as well as an neutral folks who looked at me the wrong way... now I'm just trying to decide if it's time to turn on my good allies or how to win this one. I know I need to kick up my difficulty level, but having played almost all races now, I do think the Calabim have been easiest/quickest to get past the "hump" point where you know you'll win -- they've got a good mix of builder plus powerful early combat units.

Ever since I joined the Order, I've had Crusader units popping up all over the place, joining for free, far more than I've ever received random units before. Is this a feature of .33 or of spreading the Order or something, or sort of a bug? It does seem more or less correlated with my spreading Order to a new city, but I hope that's not it, since sacrificing a 3 STR acolyte to gain the Order in a city plus a 7 STR crusader is a silly tradeoff. How's this supposed to work?

Otherwise, I love the new events and hope more are added -- just got my first ever gorilla (a game _after_ my Balseraphs had everything but the gorilla for the Grand Menagerie) via the hunter event, and the hill giant wanting his pigs event cracked me up.

Who's Decius? Xienwolf's 1.94b manual shows him as a Bannor leader, but he's built an entire island of Malakim in my game. His civilopedia entry doesn't work and his picture doesn't look Bannor or Malakim. Is he a Minister Koun random type?

March of the Trees is crazy. Now to teach the AI when to use it... in a previous game, my entire (vastly more powerful than anything in the world) invading army was destroyed in two turns by the treants -- which wasn't fun and does strike me as overpowered, definitely vis-a-vis something rather lame like River of Blood (I know, world spells aren't supposed to be of equal power, though the elves are so good anyway that giving a killer world spell seems a bit over the top). However, this time, I walked in with a similar army and Thessa sat there and let me destroy her cities when a simple casting of the spell would have made things MUCH more challenging. She had the spell available to cast and instead sat on it and was wiped out. Even though the spell needs to be toned down, that's no fun.

When does it ever make sense to cast River of Blood, btw? I'd much rather leave opponents' populations high, conquer the city and eat the population! Speaking of which, what's the formula for XP gained by feeding on a city? It looks like you get more the larger the population eaten (which is fine and is a reward for big cities but is actually somewhat backward since by the time a city's at size 19 or 20, it's probably so well-fed that it can regain the missing pop point pretty quickly, whereas 1 pop point is a huge thing for a 3 pop city to lose).

Are there many guild-related events in the game these days? I've had a number of games with Aeron's Bounty, Guild of the Nine, Ratcatcher's Guild and Guild of Hammers and almost never seen them do anything. Guild of the Nine and of Hammers do things in their own right so they're fine to have but I feel like the other two are sort of pointless -- or are there things happening behind the scenes with the crime rate that somehow impact things? As it stands, it's fun to spread guilds but I feel like it's sort of pointless, and the same goes for caring about the crime rate.

Whew, that's a lot of rambling and random thoughts... I've been enjoying the game a lot and thought I'd throw out some questions/observations for people to comment on. Keep up the good work, everyone!

-Kilrathi
 
When you spread order, theres a 75% chance of a free acolyte. If you have Fanatacism (I think thats the tech) You can get a free crusader instead.
 
"When does it ever make sense to cast River of Blood, btw? I'd much rather leave opponents' populations high, conquer the city and eat the population! Speaking of which, what's the formula for XP gained by feeding on a city? It looks like you get more the larger the population eaten (which is fine and is a reward for big cities but is actually somewhat backward since by the time a city's at size 19 or 20, it's probably so well-fed that it can regain the missing pop point pretty quickly, whereas 1 pop point is a huge thing for a 3 pop city to lose)."

I use River of Blood fairly early, about the time that the first wonders are coming on line. You can boost up your cities and their production while taking out the opponents' ability to complete any of them. Too early and you're not going to get the real benefit (I'm sure some can think of a good early time--maybe during an early rush to hamper the first victim's ability to produce defenders), too late and it's really not very game-changing.
 
Good to know that, Fuzzy Bunnies (and I love the icon -- I've got the hand puppet killer rabbit sitting atop my desk watching me as I type this).

Is that the case for every religion these days, or is it Order-specific? Getting new, fairly powerful units at such a high rate seems like a big deal, and a big boost for the Order if it's religion-specific. In any case, the fact that I'm typically ending up with a benefit to the receiving city (since Order's my state religion), to my economy (since I have the Order holy shrine) _and_ a unit that's twice as powerful as the one that I used to spread the religion seems like a bit of an imbalance...
 
Good to know that, Fuzzy Bunnies (and I love the icon -- I've got the hand puppet killer rabbit sitting atop my desk watching me as I type this).

Is that the case for every religion these days, or is it Order-specific? Getting new, fairly powerful units at such a high rate seems like a big deal, and a big boost for the Order if it's religion-specific. In any case, the fact that I'm typically ending up with a benefit to the receiving city (since Order's my state religion), to my economy (since I have the Order holy shrine) _and_ a unit that's twice as powerful as the one that I used to spread the religion seems like a bit of an imbalance...

Pretty sure its order only that gets this... its a perk. I didn't realize the crusaders were that powerful though... but I'm thinking that if you go all the way down to Fanaticism and still have lots of cities that don't have Order AND your state religion is Order, your already kicking butt and recently conquered a lot so it won't be that gamechanging. You need to have your state religion as Order in order to get the crusaders, so not everyone can get a fleet of units just by getting the religion in their cities.
 
I figure the time to cast River of Blood is at the very beginning, when you have a city of size 3, and most of your enemies do as well. You will then have a size 5 city while everyone else has size 1, thus giving you a few turns head start.

Be aware that the AI likes to pump out a worker, so pump out one of your own as well, to time the spell.
 
Regarding guild-related events, the Guild of the Nine will occasionally "offer you the services of its members," which means that you pay some gold and get some units that you might not otherwise be able to build. In my latest game, I was playing as the Kuriotates and was able to hire a dwarven cannon, plus some mercenaries with either the dwarven or elven promotion.

I've seen some crime-related events where you can have the Ratcatchers' Guild deal with the problem.

I've never gotten the Circle of Gaelan or Aeron's Bounty, so I don't know if there are any events relating to them. And I'm pretty sure I've never seen a Guild of Hammers-related event.
 
An event can cause the Guild of Hammers to spread to one of your cities, but i dont know if you get an event from already having it.

When you take an order city from an enemy you are at war with, usually you get a crusader. IMHO crusaders arent that powerful since they cannot use iron or mithril weapons. But they do have a free medic promotion.
 
I've gotten the Circle of Gaelan. Basically, it gives you an interesting mages guild, +2 EXP for adepts, and Gaelan, a mage hero. Aeron's bounty gives you +2 EXP for recon units and some new event choices
 
imho the best time to use river of blood is as soon as you get all your core cities built, in order to maximize the benefit. make sure you actually benefit from the additional population and don't get a lot of angry citizens though, that would really stink :D
 
Decius can lead the Bannor, Malakim, and the Calabim.

Expect moar information on him when Ice is released. At the moment, all we know is he can lead any of the three factions mentioned, and can choose any alignment at the start. There's a lot of speculation going on in the lore forum.
 
I agree with blob about River of blood; best used in the very early game. It takes a LONG time to grow from size 1 to 3, if you can knock them back ~20 turns or so in the early game that can be a killer advantage.
And it means that you get to happycap much faster so you can prioritize hammer tiles and cottages rather than food - so you get a production or tech advantage (and faster growth of a cottage or two).
 
Playing as the Balseraphs I once got an event where three Balseraph units offered their services to me. I found that amusing.
 
If you think you get a lot of free units with the Order: try playing Bannor with the Crusade civic (under the Order) with a cottage spam. You have so many free Demagogs, you will barely notice the free Crusaders. Fun times.
 
Don't forget to send Donal Lugh undead/demon hunting. Each one he kills means another recruitment, which means another 10-20 free units if you use it in a large enough city.
 
20 free units? I thought you got one unit for every 3 population? I think the largest non Hyborem city I've seen was 30 and that would be 10. Am I wrong on recruitment?
 
No, the tooltip is not entirely accurate. It's actually more than merely 1 per 3 population; I got around 20 units in a size 35 city.
 
ooh, so if you raze a good city, the mercurians get an angel for ever 3 pop? I didn't realize that... that would explain why razing their Ljos ally's city suddenly had a stack of angels at my borders :P
 
I believe you get 1/3 the city's population from recruitment, but that number is doubled if you have a temple of the order (and maybe with a command post).
 
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