Cultural borders should spread MUCH quicker

[salty mud]

One notable concern I've had with this game, including in the vanilla version, is that land remains unclaimed far too long into the game. Take a look at my current game going on now. I share my continent with three other civs. The year is 1160AD and large parts of the continent are still unclaimed. Byzantium and I both have plenty of cities, but I think the main problem lies with the small amount of land that a city claims when it is founded, and the extremely slow cultural spread thereafter. In Civilization IV, border growths added huge areas to the city's workable area, which meant border disputes between civilizations happened early and often. In Civ V, it's one tile at a time, leading to agonisingly slow growth. I know I can buy tiles, but this gets quite expensive.

See also the yellow circles I added: unclaimed land surrounded by one civilsation's cultural borders should be absorbed into that civilisation. It's quite absurd that a civilisation can entirely surround a patch of land, but not lay claim to the innermost areas.

In the middle ages, particularly Europe and Asia, vast areas of land were not left unclaimed. Every inch was contested and fought over and I'd love to see more of that in this game. It also triggers my OCD; I want to see empires form on the minimap, not ugly blotches of paint with green dots everywhere.

Do you also share this concern?

Settings for my game: standard size Continents, 9 civs, 12 city states, chieftain difficulty. If upping the difficulty leads to more aggressive settling, let me know.

 

[azum4roll]

All land will be claimed in later eras. Not even a polar one-tile island will be spared. So it's ok I guess.

 

[CrabHelmet]

I feel like cultural borders is more than just "claimed", it must also be "exerts effective control". All sorts of European powers claimed all sorts of bits of territory in the Americas, but that didn't stop any of the others from settling there. It seems plausible to me there would be hinterlands even quite late in the game over which states had little effective control.

 

[Tekamthi]

agree w/ above re: difference on claiming and effectively governing a region.. in americas for example there remains large areas that are effectively ungoverned.. most of canada, a "g7 country" has no infrastructure whatsoever in 2020.. not even roads!

fwiw i enjoy the way things work in vp in this regard, though i do find it odd how units can get trapped in these pockets for centuries... in a recent game I trapped 2 great generals by buying tiles to create the yellow circles in OP, effectively neutralizing them for 1.5 eras before they magically teleported out

 

[Tugboatspotter]

How would I mod this?

It seems like something in which there is no right or wrong, but only personal taste. I could happily play a game with either extreme.

 

[andersw]

The blame is mainly to the algorith for aquiring tiles (I think VP use the vanilla algorithm).
You dont aquire the tiles closest to your city but instead ones with good yields and high food.
Desert and mountain tiles are most likely to to create these pockets and I guess tundra, bare plains and marsh have a low prio as well.
So to change this you either want to lower requirement for border expand (which benefits certain choices more but doable by modding) or a different tile aquiring pattern (more complicated).

 

[vyyt]

The blame is mainly to the algorith for aquiring tiles (I think VP use the vanilla algorithm).
You dont aquire the tiles closest to your city but instead ones with good yields and high food.
Desert and mountain tiles are most likely to to create these pockets and I guess tundra, bare plains and marsh have a low prio as well.
So to change this you either want to lower requirement for border expand (which benefits certain choices more but doable by modding) or a different tile aquiring pattern (more complicated).

But that's both natural and a good thing, no? Also, I think it is a bit more complex. Both yield value and proximity are taken into account afaik.

 

[andersw]

But that's both natural and a good thing, no? Also, I think it is a bit more complex. Both yield value and proximity are taken into account afaik.

Yes, I meant the blame from @salty mud 's perspective, I'm ok with how it works.

 

[Favorius]

There is a mod that increases border growth by 33% so you can use it.

 

[salty mud]

There is a mod that increases border growth by 33% so you can use it.

Probably should have mentioned in the OP I am using that mod. It doesn't seem to have a huge effect.

 

[Ziad]

This is why loyalty is such an appreciated mechanic in civ6.

 

[JamesNinelives]

agree w/ above re: difference on claiming and effectively governing a region.. in americas for example there remains large areas that are effectively ungoverned.. most of canada, a "g7 country" has no infrastructure whatsoever in 2020.. not even roads!

fwiw i enjoy the way things work in vp in this regard, though i do find it odd how units can get trapped in these pockets for centuries... in a recent game I trapped 2 great generals by buying tiles to create the yellow circles in OP, effectively neutralizing them for 1.5 eras before they magically teleported out

I popped a territory ruin while an enemy settler (escorted by a spearman) was moving past my capital. Granted me tiles in a circle around the enemy units, trapping them XD.

If upping the difficulty leads to more aggressive settling, let me know.

Upping the difficulty very much does lead to more agressive settling on the part of the AI .

 

[Snipergw]

I agree with OP, slowly spreading borders isn't particularly fun and is very visually unsatisfying. When I used to play vanilla (or near-vanilla), I'd always get mods not just for faster border spread, but further. Since you settle more cities anyway in VP the latter is probably not necessary, but borders still spread too slowly. I wouldn't be opposed to doubling border spread rate, but bonuses from spreading borders (which are powerful in VP) would have to be halved also.

 

[JamesNinelives]

That's actually a point as well though; if you like spreading borders try playing civs like The Shoshone, America, Russia, or The Huns . Really any civ with a culture boost or strong early game will expand their borders faster as well e.g. Carthage, Polynesia.

 

[vyyt]

What exactly is your concern? Is it "only" the visual discomfort? Isn't it more satisfying when you claim a new tile when it takes time? If you need to claim a tile for strategic reasons, then you can always buy it.