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Cultural Deity before 1000AD is possible
- Thread starter jesusin
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Lexad, great game! Very close to 1000 AD! I'm extremely impressed.
Really smashes the previous record of 1230 AD, although in that game Bram was forced to use Normal speed, since it was a gauntlet requirement.
So, 1000 AD may be possible without Sid's Sushi corporation. Lexad, please comment ...
Sun Tzu Wu
Really smashes the previous record of 1230 AD, although in that game Bram was forced to use Normal speed, since it was a gauntlet requirement.
So, 1000 AD may be possible without Sid's Sushi corporation. Lexad, please comment ...
Sun Tzu Wu
Thanx! Actually, it was 13 turns worse than my previous Warlords Inca run, but due to turn/year shift on Marathon it turned out ~250 years better. 1000AD is totally doable - I played suboptimally to say the least. More details later.
I used Terra, but on retrospective I'd do better with Pangea - greater choice of reosurces. Inland Sea is too extended for rushes.
I killed Gandhi and captured his Hinduism. Founded Confy (CoL) and had Musa spread Islam to me - thus having 3 religions until later when 3 Musa cities flipped to me and I got all the religion set, but spread only Tao and Buddhism, as I lacked stone. Picked alpha with Oracle. Early techs: Mining, Medi, Phood, Wri - trade for all other early ones; CoL.
Overproduced non-GA GP, including Economics GM - had to run 4 (including Taj) GAges. The last launched after the city flip to spread new religins ASAP.
Mismanaged my LCities - the capital produced over 1200cpt and gained Legendary like 50turns before the others; bombed 0-4-5. Mostly cottages in my LCs, also several luxes helped; other 3 cities were pure GP farms. For the first 3 religions built all 3 cathedrals, for the late 2 - 2 for each.
I killed Gandhi and captured his Hinduism. Founded Confy (CoL) and had Musa spread Islam to me - thus having 3 religions until later when 3 Musa cities flipped to me and I got all the religion set, but spread only Tao and Buddhism, as I lacked stone. Picked alpha with Oracle. Early techs: Mining, Medi, Phood, Wri - trade for all other early ones; CoL.
Overproduced non-GA GP, including Economics GM - had to run 4 (including Taj) GAges. The last launched after the city flip to spread new religins ASAP.
Mismanaged my LCities - the capital produced over 1200cpt and gained Legendary like 50turns before the others; bombed 0-4-5. Mostly cottages in my LCs, also several luxes helped; other 3 cities were pure GP farms. For the first 3 religions built all 3 cathedrals, for the late 2 - 2 for each.
Hermitage in city 1 (as well as 5 cathedrals) - mismanagement, as I said
9 cities (planned 6): 4 built, 2 grabbed, 3 flipped
No race for Music - saw from espionage Mansa was ahead
Liber date 420BC, picked Nat-m
Researched to PP and Econ, traded to Democracy and Corp.
Sushi might be an interesting idea for next game. Too few resources, though.
Crucial wonders (and thus marble the resource): Oracle (before mrbl), Parthenon, Mausoleum, Sistine, Taj; Pyrs would also have come handy.
I'm thinking of starting with worker first, though. My quechua are there too early, it seems.
Also I decided that Gandhi and Musa are the inly religious guys I need, therefore no Asoka. And I have to kill Gandhi.
9 cities (planned 6): 4 built, 2 grabbed, 3 flipped
No race for Music - saw from espionage Mansa was ahead
Liber date 420BC, picked Nat-m
Researched to PP and Econ, traded to Democracy and Corp.
Sushi might be an interesting idea for next game. Too few resources, though.
Crucial wonders (and thus marble the resource): Oracle (before mrbl), Parthenon, Mausoleum, Sistine, Taj; Pyrs would also have come handy.
I'm thinking of starting with worker first, though. My quechua are there too early, it seems.
Also I decided that Gandhi and Musa are the inly religious guys I need, therefore no Asoka. And I have to kill Gandhi.
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Are you suggesting that Marathon speed is an important factor in getting a win near 1000 AD?
I'm really impressed by your getting Liberalism by 420 BC. It also contributed greatly to your very early win.
I'm glad you didn't use Sushi in this game. Gives one hope that 1000 AD can be done without Sushi.
Why did you take out just one opponent? I've very tried an early rush -> culture game, but it seems two nearby capital cities would make great #2 and #3 Culture Cities.
Sun Tzu Wu
I'm suggesting that Marathon BtS is different from Marathon Warlords/Vanilla. I have a 503-turn finish on Warlords, and it was 1316AD (and like the fastest Deity Marathon pre-BtS). There is an immense shift in this date area. Thus Liber date might also turn out less impressive turn-wise.
As for the 2nd neighbour, it was Mansa, and I already had OK sites for cottages and food, as well as marble.
As for the 2nd neighbour, it was Mansa, and I already had OK sites for cottages and food, as well as marble.
I noticed you had quite a lot of not-yet-towns in your LCs at 1070 AD. More like 5 complete towns/city...
So maybe the key isn't exclusively the liberalism date, but equally optimization of cottage development. And trying to spread those early WWs (your capital had some 150 raw culture from buildings!)
Even if you mismanaged LCs, I don't think your date can easily be beaten - because of that incredible GPfarm. Such food abundance is rather a 1 out of 100 map finder starts (except on archipelagos), not to speak of the chance to find such an enemy capital...
So maybe the key isn't exclusively the liberalism date, but equally optimization of cottage development. And trying to spread those early WWs (your capital had some 150 raw culture from buildings!)
Even if you mismanaged LCs, I don't think your date can easily be beaten - because of that incredible GPfarm. Such food abundance is rather a 1 out of 100 map finder starts (except on archipelagos), not to speak of the chance to find such an enemy capital...
When I counted, it was more like 8-10 towns per city. And some wine which is like a village of a sort. But I agree, cottages always played much greater role than Quick players assume (and even on Quick I got 1260 finish with Pericles' mixed cott-spec strat recently) - so now I want to try worker first to mine gold, which would allow capturing more developed cities, as well as sticking Pottery in line before Phood, so that I can cottage earlier. Pyramids would also come handy if there is stone, so that I can run US for my towns.
Cultural buildings are the third key for my strat, especialy the [state] AP-religion ones - they give hammers, they gain +5 culture from BtS Sistine, which (!) also doubles after 1000 years. Simple calculations of hammers to culture vs building a monastery in a city with +300% culture modifiers (civic and 4 cathedrals), resulting in 8cpt, or 23-turn payback period - which for 500+ turns game means you can build them pretty late into the game and still turn out better off. Especially if you have some wood remaining.
Spreading out WWs isn't easy, because it is hard to find three both high-commerce and high-production sites; in this game I had to give away MoM to non-LC just to not miss it, while building Parthenon in the capital. Not to mention that other LCs need loads of hammers for cathedrals.
Was that wise?
If culture is the only thing that matters, a MoM golden age at the end gives something in the order of
(24 x 10 x 4 < 1000) cp/LC < 25% of bomb
plus
(24 x 10 x 3 < 750) gpp, which translate into some 15% of your last GP.
Building culture might give another 750 cp < 7% of bomb.
It was also worth several (like, 6-8) turns of revolution as I used the 3rd GAge for spreading 2 religions from flipped Musa cities (slavery+OR - Paci+castes+USuffrage). Traded Democracy during GAge to buff my towns and purchase couple of monasteries.
I can tell my best dates are on BtS/marathon. Nowhere near 1000AD but significantly better than on other speeds including quick.
No wonder!
Marathon versus Quick:
- 50% discount on settlers
- 50% discount on workers
- 50% discount on every other unit
- near-infinite tile movement for settlers
- near-infinite tile movement for workers
- near-infinite tile movement for military units (rush!)
- peace treaties can be broken in 2 turns (the quivalent to 2 quick turns)
- resource deals can be renegociated in 2turns
- added precision for whipping at the optimal time
- Revolutions always take near-zero tunrs (conversely, a revolution of a single civic in Quick takes the equivalent of 4.5 turns of revolt in marathon).
- Many, many other smaller things are unbalanced in favour of the slowest speeds...
I have always played my cultural games on Quick, not Marathon. Why?
- My goal initially was too find the correct strategy. In order to meet this goal it is better to play 4 quick games than 1 slow game.
- My time allowance for Civ is limited. I enjoy more 4 quick games than 1 slow one.
- I am not a competitive person, my goal was not to beat everyone else and be the best player. My goal was to get the best player to apply my "best strategy" and to set the world in amazement.
- The idea of the perfect game and the sub-1000AD game only came later. And it is not really for me to fulfill. My gameplay has far too many things to improve in lots of areas (not related with culture longterm planning, at least there's one thing I feel confortable with
).
ParadigmShifter
Random Nonsense Generator
Near infinite!? That sets off my maths alarm bells 
If I give you 1 penny today, and 1/2penny tomorrow, then 1/3 of a penny the day after, etc. you will have near infinite amount of cash in a finite time
Seriously though, didn't someone say they broke the 1000AD barrier?
If I give you 1 penny today, and 1/2penny tomorrow, then 1/3 of a penny the day after, etc. you will have near infinite amount of cash in a finite time Seriously though, didn't someone say they broke the 1000AD barrier?
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Most things you mentioned above are in balance, because Marathon has 5 times as many turns as Quick (in BTS at least). 5 * 2 = 10, so 10 Marathon turns should be equal to 2 Quick turns. How is that unbalanced?
Please explain the Hammer discount for Marathon units versus Quick units.
Sun Tzu Wu
