Culture Flip Confusion...

[Strato]

I swear the RNG gods hate me. In fact, the whole game I've been playing, the RNG Gods have been striking me down. Don't ask me how a Cavalry can consistently beat fortified Mech Inf in a city. But I disgress.

The thing is, was I simply unlucky with a culture flip? I had a city I captured many years earlier (about 50-75 game turns give or take a few) with a city population of 24, of that, 15 were my civ (Carthage) 7 were the original city Civ's (Ottoman) and one English and one Mongol (two conquered races, and I had a lot of idle workers so I thought I'd put them to better use). The capital of the Ottomans was on a far island about half the world away, and I had significantly more culture than the Ottoman. Also, the cities culture was at 2 (ie: 2nd city radius size)

I was also at peace with the Ottoman until the city flipped and so I took it back next turn and basically have set out on a small side quest now to obliterate them.

Luck, RNG God's hating me, or actually to be expected? I know the 7 Ottomans in the city didn't help, but over 50 game turns for a city to flip, given the capital is so far away? It makes no sense.

 

[Chieftess]

Sometimes it happens. Did the city have far more culture than yours origanally? Was it rioting? Rioting doubles the point total of foreign citizens. In fact, 1/2 of your citizens are foreign citizens, so that's a huge chance right there. One thing to do is to get rid of that population (starving the town, settlers, workers, etc.), and rush culture into the city to expand its' borders. Did this city border the AI's territory? (i.e., have any of it's 21 tiles in AI territory)? Did you build any culture? How many troops were in it?

I'm thinking the 1/2 of the city being foreign had something to do with it.

Then again, I once had an AI city flip inside my territory after the AI found an island to settle on (settler on a galley).

 

[tR1cKy]

It happened to me too once. It's over a year ago, i don't remember the details, but i was playing an easy level, had 2x - 3x the culture of the enemy civ, no tiles occupied by ai, happy people, good garrison, my capital closer blah blah blah... and NO FOREIGNERS. Yes, no foreigners. The city flipped.
I remember that i reloaded, then put some extra garrison in it. No flip.
It should be an extremely improbable event that sometimes happen, such as the spear beating tank. Obviously, it sucks.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

It makes complete sence.

7 citizens in the city, your certainly have a somewhat significant chance for a flip.

Say your chance was 1 or 2 %, then isn't it completely normal for it to flip after 50 turns?
It could have flipped the first turn, it could have flipped the 100th turn, it could have flipped never.

In my current game i have obtained a city on iron somewhere in an odd corner of the map. Flip chances were 0.3%. Playing on for a 100 turns sure provided a good chance it would flip. I could have garisoned it with 5 or so units to nullify the chance. I did not because there was Other iron i could obtain when needed. I was lucky however the city did not flip.
Had it flipped 80 turns after i got it (with 5 of mine, 1 foreign citizen and a rushed library) that would have been completely normal within the game systems.

You might think it is not realistic that a city can flip after xxx years or anything, but that is not the matter.
It is the gameplay as it is designed, you know how it works, it works as it should work. Nothing wrong with RNG.

If you have a city with a flip chance, it can flip immeadiately or very late. If the flip chance is small, it is more likely to flip very late.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

no tiles occupied by ai, NO FOREIGNERS

Impossible, in that case the flip chance is 0.
Note, when counting tiles occupied by the AI, you need to count the full 21 radius also if you only have 9 tiles cultural borders.

The way you say it it is surely impossible by the way.
You say no foreigners, happy people, 3x culture. If all of that is the case, and you do have a number of tiles in AI culture in your radius, a good garrison will surely reduce the chance to 0. probably 2 or 3 units should be enough for a 0% chance.

When you complain about things, don't try to make them look worse then they are, just state the complete and unmodded truth please

 

[tR1cKy]

I'm not lying Wacken.
I can remember something wrong, it's a lot of time ago, but i'm totally sure about: no foreigners, happy people, culture advantage and my capital closer.
A lucky strike on propaganda perhaps?!? A patched bug? I don't even remember if i was playing the patched version or not.
Or maybe the formula you are referring to state a 0% flip chance is not 100% correct?!?

 

[The Last Conformist]

I'm afraid we won't believe you unless you can provide a save to show you're right. No foreigners and no foreign tiles within the city radius means 0% of flips according to everything we know.

I'm not saying you're lying, BTW. I suspect you had either added a slave worker and forgot about it, or had a single AI-controled tile within the city radius you failed ot notice.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

The exact text of the formula is not so important, the basics are:
The calculation starts with the number of foreign citizens and the number of tiles of foreign culture inside the 21 radius.

That number is than multiplied by different factors. If that base number is 0, it will never become anything else than 0.

If that number is very low, the distance is in your advantage, the culture is in your advantage and your people are happy, only very few garrisons (garrisons substract from the final number after multiplications) should be needed.

Propaganda, yes possible i guess.
Didn't even think of the possibility because i never get to espionage.
And if i do, the AI will never have the gold to pay such missions.

 

[Dumbo Donkey]

If you ever think that the RNG Gods hate you, all you have to do is uncheck the "Allow Culltural Conversions" button. As for that population 24 flip, its possible. One thing-was it productive?

 

[tR1cKy]

I'm afraid we won't believe you unless you can provide a save to show you're right. No foreigners and no foreign tiles within the city radius means 0% of flips according to everything we know.

I'm not saying you're lying, BTW. I suspect you had either added a slave worker and forgot about it, or had a single AI-controled tile within the city radius you failed ot notice.

Then you won't believe me, i guess. No save.
Two players stating that's impossible. HMMM... Maybe there is something wrong in how i remember the event, dunno.

 

[Strato]

Well, the thing is. The city was basically mine. It was productive, reasonably close to my capital city and forgotten palace thingo, so corruption was basically a non issue. But what you said Wacken does make sense. Over that period of time, the chances will increase. I'm not actually annoyed at the game for the city flipping as it did, but I just couldn't figure out why it would have. I was actually left gaping in shock when it told me a city flipped.

I didn't actually realise that other foreign nationals would influence a flip, I would have expected the English and Mongol citizen would have not been considered in the equation.

Oh well, that's life. It simply provides yet another interesting twist to the game I suppose. Oh, and also the civ originally had a high culture (in fact, they were culturally significant until I nearly obliterated them, just too lazy to jump on boats and finish them off)

 

[Souron]

I'm sure I have culture flipped AI when they had no forein tiles and no foreiners.

They found a city, then I found cities all around it (although not actually intercecting city radi). Eventually the city culture flips.

 

[rysingsun]

on the subject of cities flipping without any foreigners in them or foreign culture next to them ill place my bet on foreign propaganda. after all .. ive done it to the ai.

as for placing foreign workers into core cities i used to do it. ... until my x-capital flipped. i had moved my palace only one city distance from it. i lost iron works when it flipped too. there are a couple advantages when beating someone up in war to eliminate that last remote city. you know .. the one on the island thats size one and you think its not worth your trouble. the advantages are you can never culture flip to that ai and you can add their workers into your cities if that is your inclination.

 

[Strato]

That's very true rysingsun with what you said about taking that last city. In all honesty, my city that flipped would not have happened if I decided to get off my lazy bum and take down that last city half a world away, plus two other small, insignificant cities I shared an island with. Oh well, live and learn