Culture Victories - Under 200 Turns - Deity (Any tips? Faves?)

[Pengwin7]

Finished another game myself yesterday.

CV 209 Maori

Good / Lucky - incredible, incredible start. Got onto an island on t3 settle with double Turtles for future +4 harbor and Mauseleum. Production with those turtles was so high (and think I settled on faith luxury) that I got the religious settlements pantheon and got two settlers out. 4 settled cities by turn 29 is bonkers (for me). Huge, huge start. No scouts with Maori. 1-charge builders sent off to circle the world. I played this really well using Oberin-Moksha... which was just beautiful with getting a Marae down fast in new city (+600g to buy the Marae specialty on the TS). Overall got 13 cities (should've gone more). Super duper lucky was that ALL TWELVE CityStates stuck around through whole game. Two Cultures, Two Science - and I got Kilwa. I wasted charged on clearing charges for Rapa Nui in one-city. Dumb. Trees are huge. No chops. That was mistake. And I used a gov title on Magnus to chop out Kilwa... which maybe I didn't need to do... but that felt like a dumb move. Simply going Marae and hard-building with the tree production was probably smarter. Every time I chopped a tree, turn would go from like 62 to 60 (meaning the lost tree had huge impact on general build production). This was my HIGHEST culture ever at t200: 1400!!!

But...

Bad / Unlucky. The Cree. And Arabia sucking. With my warrior in water, I came up on Arabia's island and immediately declared war and stole a builder. Their settler went into hiding in the capital... not sure he ever came out. They never settled another city. By t100, they were gone. Two straight games where an AI is lost - to Simon Bolivar. Fortunately, Bolivar came too far and lost the city by loyalty pressure... to me... and my Golden Age and massive 10pop (by t100) capital. But the Cree... the Cree had SO MANY books. And Maori doesn't do books. And maybe I should have used my capital slot to buy them, sell them elsewhere, 1 at a time. Looking back, I would've liked to have tried the game like that. Cree had 12+ GWW by end game and that surely helped his whole path. TBH - I was very confident I had this when I popped off Flight at t160 (or so). Unlocked Rock Bands at 173... but had to go 3 (Ent.District) to 5 (Wonder) *turns* to play concerts. And my Rock Bands... Hot. Garbage. So mad. So mad at Firaxis for games like this. Released a total of 11 rock bands: 8 successful concerts, 11 failures. To end the game, I had 6 straight first-concert fails. Now - granted, the promotions sucked SO badly that I don't choose one - and go straight to a wonder and play. I mean when your choices are Harbors, Natural Wonders, Loyalty, 50% Gold... awful. My first three rock bands had decent promotions (Wonder, TS, Spaceport/Campus)... but after that they were all garbage. IDK why. I checked the three options every time.


Progression from first Rock Band concert (t177) to close (t209).
This tracks my tourists vs Cree. (Direct Cree Tourists in brackets). y = successful rock concert... x = unsuccesful, rock band done.

t177: 53/193 (9), y (Ent.District w/Ent.District promotion)
t178: 59/195 (10)
t179: 60/197 (10)
t180: 64/197 (10), x (ED on wonder), y (Wonder w/Wonder promotion)
t181: 74/197 (15), y (W wW), y (TS wTS promo).............. 3/4 on rock band concerts at this point... feeling good
t182: 76/196 (18), x, x (uh oh)
t183: 84/192 (23), y
t184: 89/199 (25), y
t185: 93/199 (28), y, y (Really feeling good here... 4 straight rock band concerts, gaining steam... 7-3 split... feels good... but...
t186: 98/198 (31), x, x [7-5... and all five original rock bands are done... waiting on more to slowly come as faith allows... but there's now a 2-turn wait to make the faith]
t187: 106/197 (31)
t188: 110/199 (31)
t189: 114/200 (31)... [I track numbers here... so at 4 per and 1 for them... I'm not going to make it in 11 turns... unless Rock Bands have a bit better success or I pop off key moment)
t190:120/216 (31) - very defeating moment. Cree finished Broadway AND a key tech (maybe Flight, not sure... but this is HUGE jump for their tourists here)
t191: 126/216 (32)
t192: 132/217 (32), y (yeah - a success rock concert on wonder) ONLINE COMMUNITIES - I broke the loan bank and bought everybody's GWM and Broadcast centers to hold them, slotted in 200% card
t193: 139/213 (35*). Successful concerts are adding 1-3 tourists direct from Cree... this is helpful.
t194: 149/219 (35). x
t195: 158/218 (38). x
t196: 166/221 (41). x
t197: 176/222 (44)
t198: 184/223 (45). x [To try to hail-mary on my sub 200 goal, I'm just throwing everything on Wonders... and failing. But at least a rock band is helping move 2 tourists even when failing on wonder)
t199: 194/224 (49)
t200: 200/224 (50)
-----
t201: 207/236 (- stopped tracking)... Cree obv popped off another key tech/civic here... maybe Computers.
t202: 215/250 Another 'WTH' Cree moment, maybe he is spamming Rock Bands somewhere!?! *But this is good lesson in "AI will spike too... at certain points"
t203: 225/252
t204: 233/260. x
t205: 242/260.
t206: 249/263. x [Cree finally finished a specialty campus district, so I played one here after a 1-turn trip from nearest city, another fail... That's SIX-STRAIGHT-FIRST-CONCERT-FAILS to close the game. Sigh.]
t207: 259/266
t208: 266/268
t209(VICTORY): 275/271 [Ironically, this was last turn of Industrial Era... and I'm headed into a Dark Age on next turn... so... phew]


Rock Bands:
8 Successful
11 Fails

Like... just... c'mon. Come. On.


The one thing my number-tracking exposes though...
You can't control the other AI... much... if somebody runs away... better pray on those rock bands.

And... good to track your own tourists/tourism.
In the sub200 games I do win... the highest AI is at like 140-180 range of tourists... if they approach 200 tourists at t200... it's gonna be a doozy to close... likely their Science/Culture is also starting to tick off key items.

Spoiler :

 

[Pengwin7]

Just reading on "Force End Turn" - I've read people do that.
No - don't think you've covered it before.
I wonder if that's an option on a PlayStation...

 

[Pengwin7]

re: 20-30 tiles, I'm counting by path.
7 Seas has a lot of strange water, land strips, mountains.
There's very few straight-lines paths from one AI to next.
Very few.

Map type may be (likely/IS) a big difference in why I can't fathom your early-war.
I did, once-upon-a-time play continents... got invaded a LOT... got tired of it. Yes 10-15 was more typical there.
(***So... I can now see our disconnect in discussion.***)


I've been playing 7 Seas for a while... probably because the space to next AI works for me.
There's actually a LOT of land (you probably know) on these maps - very misleading from it being called 'Seas'. And where there is water creates non-linear pathways btw capitals, often.

(20-30 is estimate of 'capital to capital', path on start. And I often quit the games where I'm too close. Had one yesterday where Ambiorix's 3rd city was within 5 tiles of my capital, so yes, it can happen, it was close - and I wasn't playing that. Yes, it's often this big, on path, the games I play out. If you just count 'as crow flies' - which may have mountains or lakes - then it's probably 15-20 on average 'capital-to-capital'... and probably more like '10' if they advance settle their 2nd/3rd city towards me.)

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Just reading on "Force End Turn" - I've read people do that.
No - don't think you've covered it before.
I wonder if that's an option on a PlayStation...

I just checked it, apparently it doesnt work on playstation at all, and the same goes for civ 7.
Thats really unfortunate, as you're missing out on a proper strong way to boost your early game immensely, especially when rushing a religion.

That being said, I have done this religious rush for years without force ending a turn, so it definitely works on standard speed deity even then.
The timing obviously comes a bit later though, since you're not getting fast holy sites and prayers up unless you really luck out on high production (and perhaps a few free builders from goodie huts).

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

re: 20-30 tiles, I'm counting by path.
7 Seas has a lot of strange water, land strips, mountains.
There's very few straight-lines paths from one AI to next.
Very few.

Map type maybe a big difference in why I can't fathom your early-war.
I did, once-upon-a-time play continents... got invaded a LOT... got tired of it. Yes 10-15 was more typical there.
(***So... I can now see our disconnect in discussion.***)


I've been playing 7 Seas for a while... probably because the space to next AI works for me.
(20-30 is 'capital to capital' on start. Yes, it's often this big. If you just count 'as crow flies' - which may have mountains or lakes - then it's probably 15-20 on average 'capital-to-capital'.)

That makes sense yeah.
You might get away with less units if the pathing is that long, as the AI might not even be interested in you that much, to the point where my "rule of thirds" (in regards to army score) might not apply.
Invading is also less attractive when the distance is long, since any gains are much harder to hold when I dont have cities settled nearby, due to loyalty issues.

 

[Pengwin7]

Still... absolutely love all your advice and tips!
Someday... maybe my job will allow me to use my PC space for CIV.

Keep posting any photos - if you don't mind.
I love seeing the progression of other people play.

 

[Oberinspektor Derrick]

Still... absolutely love all your advice and tips!
Someday... maybe my job will allow me to use my PC space for CIV.

Keep posting any photos - if you don't mind.
I love seeing the progression of other people play.

What I guess you can do though when rushing a religion like I did in my game above, even if force ending turns doesnt work on the PS, is to rush astrology and plonk down the holy site immediately to lock the cost of it.
Then deliberately swap between mining/animal husbandry/pottery and avoid teching either of them, so that you get to benefit off of cheaper prayers.
That is, unless you get free builders and work out that its more efficient to chop.

I'll post some the next time I play, though I mostly play multiplayer atm (against the AI), and mostly on epic.
I can play the next one on standard though and go from there.

 

[Pengwin7]

re: "plunk down"... I find it amazing that 2/3 times when I do that... the pantheon isn't there. Then I feel dumb, LOL.
Holy site, surrounded by desert... then no desert folklore.
Holy site, out in the tundra... no DoA.
Well... I mean... I re-start these games anyways!!! Ha

But yes, I do try to minimize district cost by not finishing techs/civics.
Though... if I plan to chop... I want to finish techs/civics.
So - yes - I manage these in ancient/classical best I can depending on whether I'm focused on cheap-districts vs productive-chops.
And I do usually try to rattle off 3-4 holy sites before even completing/unlocking the techs for Campus/CommHub - I wait as long as possible on this (and Encampment too).

PC gameplay would be great...
Pretty sure every elite player posting speed-content has access to "Quick Deals".
The amount of time I have to churn by going through AI-by-AI, every turn or every other turn, to maximize returns on trading... ooooooo boy.... it's... awful... (but essential)...

 

[Pengwin7]

Had to share this (quit) game I had last night w/Nzinga.

Starting Warrior... get this... went 45+ tile path West, NW, West, SW, West - before finally seeing another AI city. City on map, Pisac, was actually settled post me-wrapping world (t47 or later).
Scout1... sent East... discovered first AI city, Novodorum (Ambiorix), 19 tiles from my capital. (Meaning their capital was at least 23 tile path).
Scout2... Sent Southwest... went 23 tiles path, past barb cap, to farthest peninsula tile in tundra.
[7 Seas, Standard map, my usual]

This map though.
I'm presented with Nzinga directly on a continent split. Wonderful. Red pill, blue pill - you must choose.
I choose the East on turn2... looks like more choppable rainforest. Wrong - that side had Ambiorix, the other side had the 45-tile and 23-tile no AI paths!!!
I did wrap the world for +5 era score, got a golden age. Ready to rock?

Did it matter?
No.

Everybody went for a religion.
By turn 57 all five slots were gone.
I didn't even have a governor in place by turn 57!
Just... no culture available in this game - all start.
Didn't get around to chopping a tree.
Three cities, three holy sites in progress... quit game on last religion going.
The CityStates were absolutely gorgeous... but my first meets were MexicoCity, then Samarkind, then Antananarivo (LATE)... all first-meets on the 45+ tile WesternWarriorPath, and I got a Venice boost somehow.
I mean... I'm not playing out Nzinga on a continent split!!!

Thought I'd share...

[Better game in progress - will share tomorrow. Relic game w/Nzinga. One relic from huts, Apadana & Mont St.Michel are in place, just took score/culture lead at t120 last night... and in THIS game... I was the first religion... at turn55... and besides Gorgo w/Stonehenge, the other 3 just got their religion from standard yields - didn't even have a holy site in place. So two of them - I walked two missionaries over and converted their religious capital as soon as they did form the religion. Two religions out, two remain - where I'll need to send my apostles to die soon. Ha, fun.]

Spoiler :

 

[Pengwin7]

CV 197 - Nzinga (Kongo)

Nice, big way to start my Saturday!
Didn't think this game was going to play out for me... but Rock Bands... as bad as they went previous run (Maori)... this game they broke really, really well. Amazing finish.

Good / Lucky - Around t35, I had scout passing by Australia and they had a settler available... I tracked it, snagged it, ran 8-9 tiles north where no loyalty issues and started MBAMBA. This city became a huge factor - as it was my Rock Band distribution-center in key turns 187-197 when I made my push on Mr.Curtin. General spawn was excellent. Religion - OMG. Nobody wanted a religion. I had the second at turn 55... turn 55! Gorgo got a religion from Stonehenge. The other three got theirs just by faith yields and didn't even have a holy site. So I pushed out missionaries and took out the religion in neighboring Inca & Ottoman empires. This proved huge as my religion flooded these empires and at the 4-science per follower... keyed my science. Found a hut-relic! That's just a 'GO' on relics for me. Plus my capital had a spot for Mont St.Michel, so I just had to hold one for St.Basil's and give it a go. I think I had MAX CAPACITY for relics in capital as I had Apadana, MSM, StB, and the Bank w/2 slots from Demici. I made a risk and spent time building Bolshoi in my capital - what a risk - as it full finished the Civic before Cold War (Rock Bands) - and got me there about 5 turns faster... and I needed it.

Bad / Unlucky - Australia ended up running away with wonders and took off as culture leader. Three CS got eaten, including the only Science CS in Nalanda. Sigh. I had all 9 remaining suz'd end-game and having two cultural CS + Kilwa was nice, so I can't really complain. Didn't get Oracle, lived without. I only had 13 cities and only got 7 on my 'home continent', 3 in the Australia area, and 3 pushes far East to get trade routes. Colosseum reached 5-6 of those home-continent cities and they were strong.

The Tourist-rally in this game was incredible, largest tourist-# rally I've ever had against one CIV, thanks to Rock Band LUCK.

Progression from Flight (~t170) to close (t197).
This tracks my tourists vs Australia. (Direct Australia Tourists in brackets). y = successful rock concert... x = unsuccesful, rock band done.

174: 58/153
- (forgot to write these down)
- (forgot to write these down)
177: 66/157
178: 69/176 (*Must've been Flight here for Australia.. I was like *damn*)
179: 71/176
180: 75/177
181: 78/178 (down 100 with <20 turns left... really worried)
- (forgot to write these down)
183: 87/181
184: 91/184 (*I finished Cristo somewhere around here with 3-charges from Bruno... and I'm sitting with 12-13 relics in my capital)
- (forgot to write these down)
186: 96/187
187: 103/189
188: 109/191
189: 113/191 y (First rock band played here... and a nice one, EntDistrict ON ED)
190: 117/193 y, x (The ED band played succesfully on a Wonder... but another failed on first)
191: 125/202 y, y, y, x (Key mark here is the ED band got a promo for Theatre Squares - and they ran. Big thanks to "Religious Sushi" for staying alive and playing 7-8 successful BIG concerts!!!)
192: 133/200 y, y, y, x, x
193: 147/195 y, x, x, x
194: 157/191 y, y
195: 166/191 y, y
196: 175/188 x, x [COMPUTERS completed here... yeah, I was behind in science]
197: 185/189 y (Religious Sushi knocked out a 4500 concert here.... six star... such a good feeling), [ENVIROMENTALISM COMPLETED HERE, didn't get the 'screen' though - went straight to victory screen.]
----- VICTORY ------

Photos below.

Spoiler :

As comparison, I watched an Ursa Ryan relic run with Nzinga.
He builds so many more cities - I need to do this - though I didn't spot his 'settings' and all his land with only 6 civs seems like he may have cheesed a smaller AI-set with a bigger map.
He worked the 'same continent' better than I *could*. But interesting to see.

Ursa Ryan going with 5 scouts and Hanging Gardens... IDK there... very suggestive there were a lot of land / huts to his advantage.
At 18:10mark of this video, he gets "first meets" with long-out scout on Rapa Nui, Jerusalem, Kumasi... that's some fine, fine luck there. (eyebrow raise)