Culture victory - "the most difficult victory to achieve"

[snoochems]

I've played a few games now where I set out to win via a non-cultural victory. E.g. science or domination. Each time, I win via culture accidently. How is this "the most difficult victory to achieve" (as per the tool tip in the advanced options at game start).

 

[ShinigamiKenji]

My question is: How come all of you keep winning by culture?

Unless I really feel like developing my empire filling with wonders and districts, I never seem to reach this point at all. I barely build a Theatre District myself if not going Culture, and even then I don't build that many wonders until late game. The only wonders I consistently build are Colosseum, Forbidden City and Big Ben.

If you don't want to win by culture, then don't use GWAMs; grab them and delete them. Don't look for artifacts or relics. These are the main sources of tourism.

MInd you, if you enjoy developing your empire to its fullest, by all means do it. Just keep in mind at least those 2 sources of tourism that really accumulate over time.

However, if you want to play more "efficiently" (that is, mostly trying to do it in the fewest possible number of turns), then usually Theater Districts aren't worth the extra yields. Monuments and the Meritocracy policy card are usually enough for Culture if you have enough cities and districts, in my opinion.

 

[Jaybe]

@snoochems
Well, if you have a lot more cities than your opponents and more culture than them, you aren't going to lose via culture. Add those wonders and art/archeology museums (and great artists/writers and archeologists), compared to the paltry amount the other civs have ....

Yes, to mentally be committed to a different victory condition when are 'dominating' the others can lead to your winning culturally if you don't take care to avoid it.

I personally like to dominate and to extend the game towards the turn limit (to see how high a score I can get) and those other victory conditions can get in the way.
Edit: where did the 'score tab' go in the World Rankings screen?

 

[bbbt]

Well, it was in civ 5 (and is essentially the same victory mechanics here), so maybe they thought it would be until they discovered they balanced it differently

But I think wonders generate a lot more tourism in Civ 6 (especially early wonders), and so basic wonder-spamming can go a long way towards a tourism victory. Compared to Civ 5, where having your wonders help with a tourism victory meant passing UN resolutions and building hotels, etc.). Additionally, the "double all tourism yields" was in a 'dead-end' tech (the internet) in Civ 5 that you had to specifically tech to. Now now it's in computers, so it's unavoidable on the way to a space race victory.

I think moving the 'double all tourism yields' from computers to telecommunications (or giving it it's own dead end tech after telecommunications, ala Civ 5) would go a significant way to cutting down on accidental tourism victories. Maybe also cutting wonder tourism output in half and adding a '100% wonder tourism' civics card near to end that people have to use.

 

[Stringer1313]

Well, it was in civ 5 (and is essentially the same victory mechanics here), so maybe they thought it would be until they discovered they balanced it differently

But I think wonders generate a lot more tourism in Civ 6 (especially early wonders), and so basic wonder-spamming can go a long way towards a tourism victory. Compared to Civ 5, where having your wonders help with a tourism victory meant passing UN resolutions and building hotels, etc.). Additionally, the "double all tourism yields" was in a 'dead-end' tech (the internet) in Civ 5 that you had to specifically tech to. Now now it's in computers, so it's unavoidable on the way to a space race victory.

I think moving the 'double all tourism yields' from computers to telecommunications (or giving it it's own dead end tech after telecommunications, ala Civ 5) would go a significant way to cutting down on accidental tourism victories. Maybe also cutting wonder tourism output in half and adding a '100% wonder tourism' civics card near to end that people have to use.

These are good ideas. I guess the takeaway message is that there doesn't seem to be much opportunity cost in pursuing a cultural victory.

 

[TomKQT]

There should be some project, building or wonder required for the culture victory, which would unlock when you have the required turism. Scientific victory also ends by production and in Civ4 also cultural victory did.
It would very effectively prevent any unwanted victory without forcing you to delete GP, destroy theming bonuses, etc.

 

[Victoria]

In the culture guide it talks about how to avoid an accidental cultural victory a bit. Just do not leave the weakest until last. I finished my first huge deity cultural last night as an xmas prezzie to myself, It was not easy because of the trade distances and Germany was about to launch to mars. Was a close very enjoyable game, but not super hard, no.

 

[beorn]

I was not aware culture victory was the most difficult. I would have said that, for a builder type player, it is the most direct and easy. The only snag is the poor documentation. Head for archeology museums and snap up the artifacts. Computers and a couple of the key civics near the end of the culture tree, and you've pretty much got it.

Domination victories might be easier, but for a lot of us, the wargame side of Civ is extremely tedious and uninteresting. Religious victory defines tedium. Science victory is straight forward enough, but there's a lot of "next turns" to finish off building the pieces of that victory, and it seems way longer than what you go through to wait for tourism to add up.

Besides which, in VI, I'd rather be fast forwarding through the civic tree than the tech tree.

 

[Victoria]

Playing cultural deity a few times I have noticed that the artifacts gained seem to generally be 4-5 eras behind the current era. I even managed to theme an industrial artefact museum. Will have to test more and update the guide.

 

[Futumch]

I haven't specifically aimed for a cultural victory, I'm in the same boat as snoochems, where they are just a pleasant side effect. My playstyle is to try to have about 20 cities and then turtle up, trying to snipe city states with envoys for the suzerain bonuses.
I have found the Religious victory to be a bit like whack-a-mole, and Science is just slow, like wading through water. Domination is good fun but I tend to join units into corps and armies so the 1UPT doesn't bother me as much. I must admit the AI players are dumb as a sack of hair though. Someone needs to teach them how to fly.

As QoL changes I'd love to be able to lock the Future Tech research and the last Civic you choose so you don't get pestered about them every couple of turns.
I'd also love to be able to sort the city lists in the various report screens. I would have thought this was pretty basic stuff.

 

[liv]

I think the higher you go on difficulty the less true this becomes. On lower difficulty you can accidentally generate more tourism than they do culture but on higher level that does not happen often. If I do not want to win tourism victory I usually ignore the tourism improvements. and sometimes I kill my own vacationing tourists I think

 

[Victoria]

@liv quite a few deity players accidentally win because they have taken over all the capitals with great wonders etc and because they are taking out a weak player last accidentally win a cultural. It tends to happen more before it has happened a few times to someone so they get paranoid

 

[VicRatlhead5199]

I think I've only gotten it by accident when going domination. Science seems to be the easiest even if it's slow. Domination is hard only because culture happens on accident when going Dom.

Honestly I'd say religion is the hardest. If the AI spammed military half as hard as they do religious units they might actually be competitive in combat.

 

[chmilz]

On low difficulty levels I've accidentally won culture victories because I can build damn near every wonder and great people trip over themselves to be in my empire. On higher difficulties it's difficult to build any wonders or earn any great people, and I find it brutally challenging to win via culture.

Right now I'm playing as France/immortal/pangea/large with by far the largest empire, theatre districts in almost every city, zero wars to date and alliances with my two closest neighbours, and I'm 5th towards culture victory. Probably going to concede. I'm not a pro player though so maybe others could do it. If I had this kind of start with a domination oriented civ I could probably walk over the map on deity with minimal resistance.

 

[Bazilix]

I played "Deity" once - won easily with culture. Just play Kongo, ignore early wonders, grab a lot of great persons (I got all musicians, all artists except 1, all writers except 2). AI is extremely stupid, standart size, standart speed, continents, deity. Zero wars - may be this is lucky.
I haven't tryied military approach to game yet (don't like wars), but culture is very easy way to win. Now I want to win culture-deity with other civilizations? Kongo is too OP.

 

[God of Kings]

I played "Deity" once - won easily with culture. Just play Kongo, ignore early wonders, grab a lot of great persons (I got all musicians, all artists except 1, all writers except 2). AI is extremely stupid, standart size, standart speed, continents, deity. Zero wars - may be this is lucky.
I haven't tryied military approach to game yet (don't like wars), but culture is very easy way to win. Now I want to win culture-deity with other civilizations? Kongo is too OP.

Kongo would be much more OP if its capital had a majority religion with the Reliquaries tenet and the capital having five relics. Why? 1452 faith per turn!

 

[Bazilix]

Kongo would be much more OP if its capital had a majority religion with the Reliquaries tenet and the capital having five relics. Why? 1452 faith per turn!

I actually didn't get any valuable beleiefs from religions nearby, but with such luck as Reliquaries - it would be awesome, yes.
Kongo is OP mainly because your great person points get doubled, it gives crazy advantage with Divine Spark.

 

[God of Kings]

Kongo + five relics in palace + religion with Reliquaries in capital + Divine Spark = Great People on demand (and starving other civs of Great People (excluding Great Prophets for obvious reasons) and ticking Pedro II off to the highest degree)

 

[kamex]

Kongo would be much more OP if its capital had a majority religion with the Reliquaries tenet and the capital having five relics. Why? 1452 faith per turn!

Obviously a bug - I personally wouldn't use it...

 

[Archaelicos]

My question is: How come all of you keep winning by culture?

Unless I really feel like developing my empire filling with wonders and districts, I never seem to reach this point at all. I barely build a Theatre District myself if not going Culture, and even then I don't build that many wonders until late game. The only wonders I consistently build are Colosseum, Forbidden City and Big Ben.

If you don't want to win by culture, then don't use GWAMs; grab them and delete them. Don't look for artifacts or relics. These are the main sources of tourism.

MInd you, if you enjoy developing your empire to its fullest, by all means do it. Just keep in mind at least those 2 sources of tourism that really accumulate over time.

However, if you want to play more "efficiently" (that is, mostly trying to do it in the fewest possible number of turns), then usually Theater Districts aren't worth the extra yields. Monuments and the Meritocracy policy card are usually enough for Culture if you have enough cities and districts, in my opinion.

I'm not really trying to win with culture but it keeps happening. I can't ignore theater districts entirely, I get so far behind on purple science that it becomes crippling. I've had games where I have 150+ beakers and like 40-50 purple science. My tech so far outpaces my socials, I can't maintain my economy. Need too many units/buildings/wonders unlocked by purple science.

So I have to do at little a bare minimum to keep up, usually just 1 theater district + artifacts. I don't really plan it, but this usually ends up generating a ton of GP. Eventually get a GA so I build another district for the art. Which begets more GAs. I guess I can delete them but it seems like a waste.