Dealing with invisible units?

[dagorkan]

I'm playing Austrin (Austerin?) on FF and my main enemy right now just a little stronger than me is the Sheiam. Luckily I managed to find a one-tile pass between our territories (there's another pass but it's a long way 'round) which I've fortified with all my best units... but every ten or fifteen turns I suddenly get attacked by an entire army of assassins which I couldn't see and just appear out of nowhere (I should have a view of three or more tiles from the hill I'm on, I also have a hawk who detects nothing).

I managed to fend off the previous attacks but this turn I am getting attacked by Rosier the Fallen (Sheiam knight hero guy), a couple of demons and four assassins. I won half the combats and now am thinking of striking back but I can't see where they are. I go into the World Builder and Rosier and a couple of assassins are sitting right in front of the pass and there's no way for me to attack them. If I move a square into their square I won't get combat and anyway it will leave the path wide open to the interior of my realm.

The encylopedia talks about an invisibility promotion but only for the next upgrade from Assassins, and it can't be purchased with experience. I can't see anything in the Sheaim special abilities that would allow them to do that.

What's going on and how can I deal with this situation? It is giving them a huge advantage since the only way I can defeat their units is through luck in successful defence. I'm not strong enough to attack their cities and I assume I'll have the same problem in any case being attacked every turn in their territory by enemies I can't retaliate against.

I don't have any magic because I've focussed on my military up to now and for the early/mid-game I didn't think I was doing too badly.

I can only see the friendly Khazad Thane of Kilmorph, the Mage has no invisibility spells and none of the other units there are capable of invisibility... They have a Trojan Horse but that I thought is only for entering enemy territory when you haven't declared war.

 

[Skitters]

Have they built Nox Noctis (the Council of Esus holy building)? - it grants invisibility within own cultural borders

 

[dagorkan]

Yes it turns out they have I must have missed it... so is there anything I can do? I have a city just east of the pass which should be set to expand it's boundaries soon, but they demand that city (obviously) for any peace treaty. I can't even build a fort (I used to have one there until they pillaged it) because the square is in their territory.

 

[Skitters]

I'm not the most experienced FFH player....certainly I've not had to take on a Nox Noxis equipped enemy.

It strikes me that you need to take that city out....not sure how far from you that is, but that kind of implies an uber-stack - with plenty of Stonewardens casting shield of faith and using their medic skill. No doubt they will be constantly harassed on their march, so we're talking a pretty big stack here, perhaps supported by a diversionary stack of horseman who will go round pillaging.

Before setting off on such a "march of righteous indignation" I would be tempted to try building three forts - one over the vineyard north of Mistral, one to the west of that, and one north of that and see if I could encourage the Sheaim to try to attack Mistral via the razed city and thus lose the cloak of invisibility for their own stack.

 

[fuzzy_bunnies]

Doesn't Nox Noctis make ALL their units invisible in their borders? In that case, it shouldn't be just the assassins that are hidden.

 

[Dinkeldog]

Invest in a couple (cheap) hawks--you've got some nice mountain peaks there, fly them over. They've always revealed hidden units for me.

 

[Skitters]

Invest in a couple (cheap) hawks--you've got some nice mountain peaks there, fly them over. They've always revealed hidden units for me.

I don't think that works with Nox Noxis.

 

[dagorkan]

I played a couple more turns and now they're churning out blue demon things (they appear right next to me with a teleporting type sound) and mages attacking me every turn.

Invest in a couple (cheap) hawks--you've got some nice mountain peaks there, fly them over. They've always revealed hidden units for me.

Hawks aren't revealing anything for me, I flew right over them

Doesn't Nox Noctis make ALL their units invisible in their borders? In that case, it shouldn't be just the assassins that are hidden.

They are all hidden.

I'm not the most experienced FFH player....certainly I've not had to take on a Nox Noxis equipped enemy.

It strikes me that you need to take that city out....not sure how far from you that is, but that kind of implies an uber-stack - with plenty of Stonewardens casting shield of faith and using their medic skill. No doubt they will be constantly harassed on their march, so we're talking a pretty big stack here, perhaps supported by a diversionary stack of horseman who will go round pillaging.

Before setting off on such a "march of righteous indignation" I would be tempted to try building three forts - one over the vineyard north of Mistral, one to the west of that, and one north of that and see if I could encourage the Sheaim to try to attack Mistral via the razed city and thus lose the cloak of invisibility for their own stack.

Well the Sheiam Holy city where the Nox Noctis is is about as far away as it could be, I have to pass at least two other city radius.

The idea of the deliberate opening is quite interesting... I don't have any great offensive units apart from my Hero which is why I was defending the hill but it would (except Rosier who has higher ) leave them all out in the open on grasslands before they can attack me

 

[xienwolf]

In future versions of Fall Further, Hawks will be able to see units shrouded by Nox Noctis, and you will have an indicator next to the Player's Name in the Scoreboard to show that they have Nox Noctis Active on their units. So this is a temporary issue

 

[hbar]

To make your life easier in the meantime, a quick push to wipe out Grottiburg (from screenshot) would reduce their cultural borders, giving you a buffer around your chokepoint (i.e. one tile buffer would be in your control, so they would lose invisibility before they could attack you.

 

[avalonnn]

What about building assassins of your own? Isn't that a good counter to enemy assassins?

And if the AC is a problem, wiping out the AV holy city will help you a lot.

 

[orangelex44]

Well, there are a few Empyrean units that can see Invisible...

If you'd have had some magic, you could've used an area-of-effect spell...

IIRC, Shadows can also see Invisible...

Otherwise, depending on where the CoE holy city is, you can attack it. If it's on teh coast, there's no problem in your situation. If it's not, well, you may just have to hold the line until the Sheiam give up, while desperately trying for one of the above strategies. If all else fails, pay someone (I'd suggest the Amurites, off the coast) to join your war.