Dealing with NetSplits

[Chieftess]

These are rare occurences, but I think need some guidelines to deal with them. During the turn chat - twice alread - there have been netsplits, which sent some of us to different channels.

1st instance - Everyone split into another room except for me (when I was the DP), HOWEVER, all of the citizens/advisors appeared to be there. It took me nearly 10 minutes to figure it out. I was about to save the game and upload, when on the other side, the new DP was about to start when I showed up on a hunch.

2nd instance - This one (tonight) was wicked. It split us into atleast 3 seperate rooms. I, Civgeneral and Plexus stayed in the origanal, KoC split to a room by himself, and the others (including Eyrei to split to a room where he was the op of #civfanatics!) split to yet another room. Any attempt to reconnect resulted in returning to the same room, devoiced! In my room, CivGeneral was about to start the game again. Had he uploaded a save, and Eklektikos uploaded a save, we would be stuck with 2 universes.


I think there needs to be some law about this. Such as:

1. In the event of a netsplit, the game will be immediately saved and the log prepared for upload.

2. If all of the attendents can't reconnect in 10 minutes, the turn chat will end.

3. If any discussions continued in the chat room after the netsplit, all logs (from each room) should be gathered into one zipped file.

 

[Octavian X]

I believe that the CoL states that department leaders carry on the game without citizen input if there is a lack of participation (CoL C.2.D.4).

Either way, I feel that legislation is unnecesary. It is the responsibility of the DP to end that chat at his discresion. It should be one of the 'unwritten regulations, like ending a chat when a new civilization is met.

 

[Cyc]

True, Octavian. But CT has a good point. If no one knows where the others are and can't get back to communicate with them, things could get hairy. Some one might claim the right to play through, 2 people might claim the right, who knows. I went through the first net split CT spoke of. Everyone split from the room, I couldn't figure it out (I checked my breath), but I knew I was in the #demogame room. just like the discussion and poll we had about "When the player leaves...", we should do the same for "When all hell breaks loose..." (or netsplits).

 

[disorganizer]

What we could do it search for a specific server rather than connecting to the network itself. Maybe TF can help with determining which server would be best for that.

If all citizens connect to the same server, no netsplit can occur.
Was it really a split or did the server just go bogus?

 

[Chieftess]

It seemed like a split. One the first one, everyone was in the room, then just stopped talking. Apparently, the split didn't show (only partially) on my end. I kept asking for input, but no one would respond. I was about to save the game and log and upload it to the server. (and the thread doesn't update unless you know to reload it). Everyone else was about to start again - and might have uploaded the game and save without knowning that I stopped play. So, in that case, I as the DP, couldn't even tell everyone that gameplay has stopped because everyone was ignoring me.


In the 2nd one, CivGeneral was about to start the game up and start playing. Eklektikos might have still been playing on his side. And poor KoC was in a room by himself. If Eklektikos didn't reload the thread, another game and save would have been posted 5 turns later. Then we would have a turn 9 save, and an alternate turn 10 save. In this case, we couldn't reconnect. It was like there was 3 seperate #demogame rooms. The one I went to was always CivGeneral and Plexus. Not to mention the fact that a reconnect caused us to be devoiced. MAJOR problem.

Suppose we were at war with the Aztecs and a split occured on turn 3. One group would still continue, thinking the others just left. The other group (suppose it's Octivian_X, BlueStrider, Donsig, and Ehecatl) might start from scratch thinking the others can't get back on. One group might take 3 Aztec cities, another might take 2 and lose half the force. If both were uploaded, which one do you pick? The 2nd in CoC is perfectly within the constitution to continue play since none of the others are in the room. So, there will be 2 game saves with different results.

Lastly, you can't always tell a netsplit is in progress. Like last night, we couldn't reconnect. We were on the last turn, and suppose everyone still appeared to be in the room (even if they weren't). Or, maybe the DP was caught in a netsplit and couldn't get back in. It would appear as a dropped connection. Unless you know you have to reload the turn chat instructions, you wouldn't know what happened... It can create more problems if you assume that they "just left"... In fact, the last netsplit lasted a good 15-20 minutes or more, with smaller netsplits afterwards.

 

[neutral leader]

i agree that something needs to be done about this. is it a problem with the server, or a problem with how we are connecting to it?

 

[Ehecatl Atzin]

Am I the only one that finds this whole "net splits" thing extremely interesting? I mean, the whole thing of alternate universes and such, right here in our little demo-game Isn't it wicked!!
And think about it, we haven't even discovered physics!! hahaha

Ehecatl Atzin

PS But you are right, something must be done, even if it's just running a mesenger in the background to talk to other people if a split occurs.

 

[Strider]

Originally posted by Chieftess
It seemed like a split. One the first one, everyone was in the room, then just stopped talking. Apparently, the split didn't show (only partially) on my end. I kept asking for input, but no one would respond. I was about to save the game and log and upload it to the server. (and the thread doesn't update unless you know to reload it). Everyone else was about to start again - and might have uploaded the game and save without knowning that I stopped play. So, in that case, I as the DP, couldn't even tell everyone that gameplay has stopped because everyone was ignoring me.


In the 2nd one, CivGeneral was about to start the game up and start playing. Eklektikos might have still been playing on his side. And poor KoC was in a room by himself. If Eklektikos didn't reload the thread, another game and save would have been posted 5 turns later. Then we would have a turn 9 save, and an alternate turn 10 save. In this case, we couldn't reconnect. It was like there was 3 seperate #demogame rooms. The one I went to was always CivGeneral and Plexus. Not to mention the fact that a reconnect caused us to be devoiced. MAJOR problem.

Suppose we were at war with the Aztecs and a split occured on turn 3. One group would still continue, thinking the others just left. The other group (suppose it's Octivian_X, BlueStrider, Donsig, and Ehecatl) might start from scratch thinking the others can't get back on. One group might take 3 Aztec cities, another might take 2 and lose half the force. If both were uploaded, which one do you pick? The 2nd in CoC is perfectly within the constitution to continue play since none of the others are in the room. So, there will be 2 game saves with different results.

Lastly, you can't always tell a netsplit is in progress. Like last night, we couldn't reconnect. We were on the last turn, and suppose everyone still appeared to be in the room (even if they weren't). Or, maybe the DP was caught in a netsplit and couldn't get back in. It would appear as a dropped connection. Unless you know you have to reload the turn chat instructions, you wouldn't know what happened... It can create more problems if you assume that they "just left"... In fact, the last netsplit lasted a good 15-20 minutes or more, with smaller netsplits afterwards.

I wonder if it confused anybody sense you refered to me as BlueStrider .

Well anyway I agree with Ehecatl.... This is VERY INTERESTING. I hope it happens when I'm around

Through poor KoC.... Got stuck in a room all by himself.... just him and his bagel bites

 

[disorganizer]

He got Stuck? So SaaM is KoC?
Im confused!

We should really search for one server of the network and use this sole server to connect. Maybe a list of 3-4 server. This way we can ensure all clients are disconnected.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

My only concern with this is learning that someone may just pick up and start playing the game.

We should all agree that no one picks up the game from the DP unless he or she hands it off.

 

[FortyJ]

I think Bill_in_PDX is correct.

This may be for the Judicial committee to resolve, but I'm going to try my hand at this...

Once the DP starts the TC, doesn't that make all previously uploaded Save Games obsolete? In essence, once the DP resumes the game from the previous Save Game, no matter how far into the TC he or she gets, he or she should have to upload a new version of the Save Game before somebody else could take over. Any other citizen who downloads a previous Save Game and commences play after the DP has started play, would be violating the rules concerning playing ahead/restarting.

Of course, I may be totally wrong...

 

[Chieftess]

I know the DP has to play at the latest possible save... and follow what's in the log.

 

[disorganizer]

Now another approach:

a) the DP must be in the chat 30minutes before the start
b) the DP must determine which chat-server he is on (i have to look how to do this, but it should be easily possible)
c) the DP must post this servers name in the instruction thread. from that post on, he/she is official DP of this chat.
d) if a netsplit occurs, before anyone uses the save to play, he has to check the instruction thread and connect directly to the chatserver posted there
e) if the DP must leave the server he posted and connect to another one, he must post the new server immediately.

* of course, we could also just state that after the DP posted the server-address, all COC-players MUST use this server to connect. only people using that server will be eligable to take over the game.
* we will have a problem with persons using the java-client. they always connect to the random-server-thing. but no coc-player eligable for DP should use that c*** anyways.

 

[disorganizer]

Now i propose a easy handling for the chat:

1.) we always use the server arena.webchat.org instead of irc.webmaster.com to login. as backup, we use webmaster.webchat.org
2.) the designated player adds the servername to the topic of the chat and also states the server he is on in the instruction thread at least 30 minutes before the official start
3.) it is forbidden for a player to take over DP without accnowledgement of the active DP or checking on both servers and the instruction thread for the active DP. also, it must be waited at least 1/2h before takeover.

i believe maybe a COS change would be good.
we could have a trial run on a voluteer base next chat.

only problem would be:
the java clients will always randomly connect to the chat-servers obviously.

How do i...?
...change the server when im already connected?
type /server arena.webchat.org or /server webmaster.webchat.org in the command line of your client.
this also works for the java-chat!!!
...permanently change my login?
instead of entering irc.webmaster.com on the setup of your client, use the appropriate servers.