Dealing with threats from other nations

[eyrei]

How should we react to threats from other civilizations? Unfortunately, there is no way to take these discussions to the forums when they happen, because you cannot continue until you have decided how to react. There are 3 main categories of threats:

Money

This is the most common type before the discovery of mapmaking. Usually it is a relatively small amount of gold. I suggest we give in to these threats unless we are planning and ready to go to war with the threatening nation. Money is usually included in the other types of threats as well, but is usually unimportant compared to the other demand.

Technology

If we ever have a tech that a warlike and militarily superior civ does not have, they may threaten us for it. In fact, I halfway expect to be threatened for literature in the near future. I suggest we refuse to part with technologies unless the threat comes from a neighboring civilization whose border we do not have well garrisoned. For instance, if the Americans threaten us while most of our troops are far to the west, we may need to give in.

Maps

Many threats contain a demand for either a territory or world map and some gold. Since much of our area has been scouted by the Japanese and Aztecs and undoubtably this information has already been sold, we should give in to this threat unless we are sure the civ is incapable of successfully attacking us, and/or we are preparing for war against them anyway.

These are not decisions but starting points for a discussion, so....discuss.

 

[Stuck_as_a_Mac]

i agree. also- we need to work out deals with luxuries and resources.

 

[Bill_in_PDX]

I would be opposed to giving in to threats for technology. I agree we may well be harrassed by America or Japan soon, and we should ignore the threat, especially by the Japanese.

 

[Cyc]

I'll agree with Bill on the Technology. I'll agree with eyrei on the maps and the money. If we've already been scouted and the info has been sold, no need to go to war over it. I don't think we'll have a major problem with techs, but I wouldn't consider giving any science to the Japanese or the Americans. We need to make this a war of our choosing, not fall into someone else's plan.

 

[Octavian X]

Luxury and resource extorsion should be discussed when we actually connected.

Also, I agree with Bill. We should not give in to extorsion involving technology.

 

[disorganizer]

Well, this should lead to a poll soon. We wont be happy any more if a situation like for the first big war in DG1 happens
This topic is long overdue.


Now my opinion on it:
1) during a war, we should give in ANY request until we can afford a two front war.
2) as soon as the war ended, i comply with the proposal


so at the moment until the aztec war finished, i would say give in to any request.

maybe a future poll should be split: our policy now, and our general policy.

 

[Chieftess]

I agree with the techs. Maps probably have been traded around quite a bit (I'm also surprised a domino war hasn't started yet)... I'm sure one will start soon...

 

[disorganizer]

it did not start BECAUSE we traded maps ;-)
and because we gave by most of the threads during the war.
i believe this was the best choice.
it gave us a clean war and good chances for settlement now.

we will also soon be at war with others, as our neighbors will propably need the landbridge and will not sit and let us occupy it ;-)

 

[Falcon02]

I agree. We should give into Map and gold threats (depending on how much gold). However not tech threats.

We don't need a second Domino war just yet, and this thread and the poll will prevent Russia from coming up and complaining again. Russia basically complained alot during Demogame 1 of injustices, starting with GF refusing to give maps to the Babs, which started a war, which lead to the Domino wars.

 

[chiefpaco]

As usual, my opinion is "don't rock the boat". Give in to all threats. Start wars when we are ready on our own terms. What we give away is not costly in the long run compared to getting involved in a war when our troops are scattered and/or focused on something else.

 

[Donovan Zoi]

We should consider the proximity(if that can be determined) of the nation doing the bullying. If they are far enough away, the ensuing war will most likely be a Cold one: slam the door and wait it out.

Also, once the GL kicks into high gear, there is a good chance that a threat can be turned into a win-win situation. We can send them away with a benign tech and maybe get their gold and maps in the process.

 

[disorganizer]

but even a far away enemy can sparkle a domino war against us

 

[Donovan Zoi]

True dis(not to be confused with true dat), but we are a nation that can be totally protected by mountains! And with map making on the way, we can vigilantly patrol our coast for oncoming threats. Every boat that would come for us will be hugging the shore and easy to detect if we send our boats out a bit.

The only country I am remotely concerned about right now is Japan and we can hold them off by fortifying troops on our mountains. And we should be able to mow right through the American grasslands if they start demanding tribute.

Though most of it sounds off-topic, I still say we must keep our gold and if they decide to punish us for it, let 'em try.

 

[BCLG100]

i dont think we shoudl give into extortian ever it kinda defies whatdemocracy stands for as far as i know

 

[Eklektikos]

I personally think that giving in to extortion demands is the smart thing to do at this point. Remember that we are on a Pangea and that although the extorting civ may be a long way away it could quite plausibly have a number of units near our territory by now (possibly even a minor Stack Of Doom), as well as RoP agreements that could drastically speed the movement of their forces in our direction. This is without taking into account the increased risk of our being on the recieving end of a Domino effect should a far off civ declare war on us.

I agree with Eyrei that we should be more guarded about surrendering techs, though. Giving in to demands that would significantly help the enemy and weaken our power relative to theirs is the point where submission ceases to be intelligent.

 

[Octavian X]

In general, I feel that giving in to an enemy only stregthens them before the eventual conflict. We should remember, extorsions usually occur because someone smaller wants to bully us for something they don't have. Besides, extorsion almost always occurs when there is already bad blood. The only thing that giving in will do is hurt us, much worse than standing up in a full fledged war. Anyway, it could just be a weak bluff, and the enemy might not even declare war.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Octavian X
In general, I feel that giving in to an enemy only stregthens them before the eventual conflict. We should remember, extorsions usually occur because someone smaller wants to bully us for something they don't have. Besides, extorsion almost always occurs when there is already bad blood. The only thing that giving in will do is hurt us, much worse than standing up in a full fledged war. Anyway, it could just be a weak bluff, and the enemy might not even declare war.

Extortion usually occurs when a civ with a military larger than ours sees that we have something they don't. Usually, it is inconsequential, but sometimes it is a technology.

 

[Octavian X]

Yes, but IIRC, we do have the largest military in the world.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Octavian X
Yes, but IIRC, we do have the largest military in the world.

Yes, we do for now. I don't expect that to last too long, however. We have no need to worry about any one civ, but they will bring allies into the war, and while it is possible to bring in our own, it is expensive.

 

[eyrei]

I propose 3 polls on this subject, corresponding to the 3 types of threats outlined in the first post.

Poll: Should we give in to monetary threats from other civs?

Possible answers:

1. Yes
2. No
3. Only if they are right next to us.
4. Abstain


Poll: Should we give in to threats for technology from other civs?

1. Yes
2. No
3. Only if they are right next to us.
4. Abstain


Poll: Should we give in to threats for our maps from other civs?

1. Yes
2. No
3. Only if they are right next to us.
4. Abstain


Using the results from these polls, I will outline a formula for responding to threats, using the stipulation that if a threat contains any element that we have voted to stand our ground on, we will not give in.