Defeating Longbow Units

[mchenryed]

I notice that the AI uses the long bow unit to protect its cities. These guys are tough to take out.

I usually launch an army of praetorians on them and I usually capture the city, but a lot of my units wind up perishing.

Any tips on dealing with Long Bow units during the early middle ages? I usually soften them up with catapults, but just checking to see if I missed anything obvious. The riflemen take them out but by then I've lost valuable time.

Thanks

 

[AncientPlayer]

Longbow fortified in a city with walls and its on a hill--yep, been there, done that and my army has the scars Because that's pretty much always true I always try to get the promotion with the bonus against archers and, otherwise, yep its cats to the rescue. I'll lose one, occasionally, two in almost every siege but its necessary. And you get promotions for the cats so eventually they're able to survive most attacks.

 

[AnsarWarrior]

my catapult stack specialy on the middle ages are 4 to soften the city fortifications and another 2 to soften the city defenders..and it works well.

 

[Pantastic]

In vanilla, bombard down the defenses, then open with cats and follow up with CR macemen (or praetorians, same vs archers) after they're weakened enough. In warlords trebuchets are probably too good against longbows. Generally I like CR promotions on siege units for this sacrifice, it lets them hurt the target unit more and gives them a better chance of survival, though collateral damage promotions are tempting too.

 

[LuBu]

Stupid question, do you actually attack with the catapults or is it possible to bombard archers? If it is, how? Ive been playing forever and never understood the boards "suicide cats" thing?

 

[Mango]

Suicide cats is a simple strategy. You build a ton of catapults and then throw them at cities. I always build 4 cats with CR and Accuracy promotions. That allows me to bombard any defense down to 0% in one turn. Then I have at least one extra catapult per city I wish to take. Major cities require anywhere from 2-4. I give those CR and Bombard promotions. Then you just wheel your stack up beside the city, bombard to zero with the CR/A cats and then use the CR/B cats to attack the city. The suicide part comes from the fact that they rarely survive, but they almost always damage the best defender in the city and with the bombard promotion you can knock down the other defenders as well. It might not seem like much but shaving off 1-2 points from a longbowman's strength is HUGE.

The idea of course is keeping your offensive units from dying. Cats are the single most important weapon in the game. With about a dozen cats you can wipe out an entire Civ with less than half the units it would take you without them.

 

[King Jason]

There's one simple rule for civ4 really, pretty much every military problem can be solved with Cats (and it's respective upgrades.)

 

[JonnyB]

EVen if their odds are 0.2% cats still inflict serious collateral damage. You can Lose 2 cats or lose 6 praetorians. suicide the cats and attack with enough units to take the city in the same turn, city defenders heal quickly.

 

[Nicci]

catapults & maceman would do the trick. if u lack maceman, use swordsman instead, but it will cost more.

 

[Ceritoglu]

The principle behind suicide catapults is to set your catapult to attack an enemy stack - not bombard but attack in the same way you'd send a warrior to attack an archer. By doing so, your catapult will inflict a fair bit of damage on that defender, as well as inflicting some collateral damage upon other units in the stack. Therefore 2 to 4 suicide cats can often balance the odds in the attacker's favour - destroying many of the defensive bonuses.

AI digging deep with Longbowmen is a medieval form of trench warfare - the odds are in favour of the defender, hurling attackers is far from effective. Entrenching your troops became a bad idea come the Second World War, due to the German innovation of Blitzkrieg (Lightning Warfare). Combined artillery and mobile infantry attacks (rather than the poorly coordinated and slow attacks seen in the trench war that was World War 1) returned the advantage to the attacker again. In a sense, cIV emulates this. Combine your suicide cats with the bulk of your force moving in on the same turn (after a period of steady bombardment) and your enemy will essentially be blitzed.

The intelligent multiplayer gamer will, however, use defensive suicide cats to batter down a marauding stack. As a result, multiplayer games with skilled players (a rarity if you organise your games from the Lobby rather than in private) will often involve much more advanced use of stacks - often dividing them up, creating diversionary task forces, etc. The AI and most unskilled cIV players, however, are often bamboozled by catapults and insist on sending out SoDs (Stacks of Doom), which are easily crushed by good use of artillery.

 

[mchenryed]

I'll try to build more catapults next time. I've been praetorian / cavalry happy of late, but I'll definitely start producing more artillery weapons.

Thanks!

 

[GIO888]

3 Cats with Barrage 1, 3 Swordsmen with City Attack 1, bombard until 0 defense, then suicide 3 cats - oftentimes one or two will actually win their combat - then mop up with the swordsmen, who'll all get upgraded too , if you're lucky.

Rinse and repeat!

 

[Blueberry]

I have never used suicide cats. I have only used them for bombardment.
I guess I will use some cats for collateral damage in my next game. However there is drawback with that strategy. The remaining units you attack with, which survives, will get lower experience growth because of the reduced odds against you. So, what kind of army will you have; large numbers with few promotions or smaller numbers with more promotions.

 

[SkippyT]

My only advise:
STUFF YOUR ARMY WITH TREBUTCHETS

 

[BCLG100]

There's one simple rule for civ4 really, pretty much every military problem can be solved with Cats (and it's respective upgrades.)

even then, cats still do the same basic thing as cannons.

 

[weasel77066]

Ive noticed the AI (especially barbarians) will pull two or three of their longbow defenders out into a forest tile right after youve bombed their city defense out. (so then right before you suicide with cats) That way, you have two stacks to deal with and colllateral damage only effects one stack or the other. If you charge the city with cats, theyll pull their longbowmen back in next turn. They seem to plan it so that you are one catapult to shy of taking the city in one turn.
The fix.... attack with many, many cats. I build enough to feel comfortable taking the cities I want, then I build more and even more of them. Make sure I take the city on first turn of attacking (after city defense is gone) otherwise their longbowmen will use their promotions to heal and get another garrison bonus.

 

[blitzkrieg1980]

even then, cats still do the same basic thing as cannons.

However, cats will definitely not survive against a full health defender whereas cannons have a decent chance of surviving anything up to riflemen. But I stick with trebuchet until the industrial era b/c they really can stick it to most defenders before then without a guarantee of suicide. I don't like losing units at all even if they are just cats.