Deity average build turn for Wonders ?

[cazaderonus]

Hello there,

I tried searching the forum (and the general internet) for a kind of guide on the average turn AI tend to build the various wonders in Deity. I was pretty sure i would find something but seems i was wrong.

Even weirder, trying a search in thread titles for the keyword "Wonder" in the entire civ V forum returns zero posts

So, should we create such a thing ? Might be a usefull resource for those, like me, who dont have those stuff in our heads

 

[consentient]

Great Library - T23-T27
Stonehenge - T25-31

Those are the only two I remember.

 

[stormtrooper412]

Great Library is my games rarely goes before turn 30 though, still impossible to get in many normal games

Stonehenge around 35, Temple of Artemis around 40

 

[prodi]

Great Library is my games rarely goes before turn 30 though, still impossible to get in many normal games

Stonehenge around 35, Temple of Artemis around 40

I generally agree. The Great Library seems to go at turn 28-32. Stonehenge 30-37 or so, and Parthenon 60-70. I rarely see any point trying to chase any of them, except maybe Stonehenge to secure a religion in a situation where I need plantations for luxuries as well.

The variance on build turns for other wonders seems to be a bit bigger and more dependent on which AI's are in the game - especially renaissance ones. The Temple of Artemis is pretty strong but it is very rare that I prioritize production trying to get it. I can't quite remember when it is usually produced, but turn 40 feels about right.

I would also much appreciate if someone could compile solid information on the OP's request, as this would be valuable information to me and other players as well, instead of what is often the case - and includes my post - a scientifically very inaccurate "pull out of ass" gut-feeling.

I would take part if someone wants to dive into such a study. I am unsure how fruitful it would be, however, since every game is very different and checking the AI's tech level gives a better idea on a game to game basis. Social policy wonders and Petra especially have large variances - my decision for trying to build Hanging Gardens is usually dependent on how many AI's have opted for Tradition. For the early game, though, it might be interesting and informative, especially for players jumping up to Deity difficulty to get an idea about what wonders might be worth trying to aim for and not.

 

[consentient]

Unless guaranteed (met all AIs and none have opened Tradition, when considering HG), I don't think it's optimal to try for them at all. They can be gotten, but since winning on Deity depends on first catching up to the AI, you can catch up to them probably much better by concentrating on key infrastructure and/or an army to conquer the AI cities.

I'll also happily take part in a study, but we need to make sure we're all playing 279.

I made an example spreadsheet people could use. If a bunch of players keep a track of the turn numbers each wonder goes for 10 games it will help provide the OP with the info he needs. Feel free to download it, complete it and send it to the OP.

 

[prodi]

Unless guaranteed (met all AIs and none have opened Tradition, when considering HG), I don't think it's optimal to try for them at all. They can be gotten, but since winning on Deity depends on first catching up to the AI, you can catch up to them probably much better by concentrating on key infrastructure and/or an army to conquer the AI cities.

My experience with HG is not going for it directly unless I'm going for Petra at the same time, since it's on the way there, but after Philosophy towards Education while HG isn't built yet. That will ususally be in a timeframe where the civilizations more probable to build it would have already built it, or - with a good start - you have a shot at it without delaying Philosophy and have the production to realistically get it, or not getting isn't crutial to your general infrastructural building capacity. All in all this is completely in agreement with your statement - it is a very good wonder, but it is not worth beelining in the early game. If I have met 5 out of 7 AI's, though, and let's say only one or maybe two of them have Tradition, I will often try to build HG if in a position to do so, unless that or those AI appear to be in a relatively good position at the time. This is very dependant to the actual game, though, and is hard to quantify and has to be considered on the actual turn(s) you may have available production to aim for that particular wonder. In general, HG is less than 30% likely to be in my buildorder, including failed attempts.

I'll also happily take part in a study, but we need to make sure we're all playing 279.

Is 279 a specific patchnumber of the game, a numbercode for BNW or something else?

[/QUOTE]

 

[cazaderonus]

Wouldnt the best way to do this being by using rigged maps ? Is there an editor somewhere that allows to modify a map after starting it ?

Just launch a game using a fake civ from the workshop. Use a huge map instead of a normal : More AI competition, more dirt, more people willing to go tradition etc...

Then, insta modify map to surrender your capital with mountains, virtually taking you out of the game. Or if it is doable, change its position to an irrelevant area (ice, surrender with mountains). And then just spam next turn ?

Would allow for a fast screening of multiple games. That or, do the log retains data for the entire game ? If yes, maybe we can all load some old games and see when wonders were gone in several old games ?


Or, we just wait for Acken to make us a list
Joke aside, this reminds me. Acken is actually looking at AI capitals to check for ongoing construction and he manages to identify wonders AI are building. A portfolio of what wonder look like when they're being built would be awesome as well.

 

[consentient]

If you use rigged maps and alternative civs, then the data is going to be skewed and will not reflect at all when they are NORMALLY built.

Having to spam next turn is so boring that I doubt anyone will agree to it. Better to actually play games and record the turn times the wonders go, if you're gonna run any kind of experiment at all.

You could always not bother!

 

[cazaderonus]

If you use rigged maps and alternative civs, then the data is going to be skewed and will not reflect at all when they are NORMALLY built.

Having to spam next turn is so boring that I doubt anyone will agree to it. Better to actually play games and record the turn times the wonders go, if you're gonna run any kind of experiment at all.

You could always not bother!

lol. i agree it'd be boring.

By rigged maps i actually meant taking you out of the game for spamming next turns (ice + mountains). And the alternative civs was for the human player only so you would be able to use all the real civs eventually. Though i guess that's not really an issue.

What about the event log, anyone remembers if it keeps records for wonders built and goes back all the way to turn 0 even at the end ?

Also, such an index is only interesting until say industrial wonders at best, later wonders are a lot more accessible in deity if you're gonna win as you're supposed to be ahead tech wise. Most sensitive wonders are probably classical\medieval.

 

[Bimblecrumbs]

@cazaderous: Filthyrobot has a good video on wonder spotting, detailing what all of their skeletons/foundations look like in alphabetical order:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TpOGOICFcE

As a side note, his MP Let's Plays make for very good watching.

 

[cazaderonus]

@cazaderous: Filthyrobot has a good video on wonder spotting, detailing what all of their skeletons/foundations look like in alphabetical order:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TpOGOICFcE

As a side note, his MP Let's Plays make for very good watching.

thanks mate ! tried watching one of its MP LP once but civ 5 MP is not something i fancy ^^

 

[Olodune]

A portfolio of what wonder look like when they're being built would be awesome as well.

It is a strange UI decision that pixel staring is a design feature in a modern game. They're not that hard to learn though. With a couple exceptions: I still haven't identified the Sistine Chapel for example. Possibly because I've only ever seen the inside in pictures. (Oh, know I see. Thanks wiki. A boxy rectangle.)