Deity masochistic Challenge #1 - Monty

[Old Peter]

Civ 5 too easy? Not anymore. Please post your toughest maps in this series. And leave the "normal" maps for the "normal" deity challenge.

First of, Montezuma on a OCC challenge! I tried this map twice and died both. But it might be beatable. For sure very fun.

* Pangea, standard size but high water. Makes the map smaller.
* Legendary start.
* You start in middle with the toughest neighbours out there surrounding you.
* Few city states.

It will be very interesting to see how people approach this one. What will be your starting policy tree? In what way will you aim to win? Cultural (Monty is good for that), Science (might be possible in BNW with faster reseach for few cities), Military (Monty is good for that too).

Good luck!!

 

[jeespoks]

Might give this a try later, sounds interesting but I'm gonna play those new civs first.

Is the OCC-option selected or just advised way to play this? It makes a lot of difference when going for domination.

Where's all the jungle?

 

[Old Peter]

Might give this a try later, sounds interesting but I'm gonna play those new civs first.

Is the OCC-option selected or just advised way to play this? It makes a lot of difference when going for domination.

Where's all the jungle?

The OCC option is there

 

[casualplayer]

Spoiler :

Damn Zulu. I found the riverside hill-mountain sweet spot (because Mt. Sinai does count as a mountain) and was well on my way to having a beast of a city. 2 turns of Sinai for DF, then switch back to just Flood Plain Faith. DoF with Russia, Sweden and Iroquois, so plenty of cash. Then Zulu comes calling Turn 55 with 14 units, including 3 Catapults. My 4 Archers and Spearman had no chance. Game Over.

 

[Fire0rb]

Spoiler :

Zulu or Assyria as very close neighbour is soo freaking imba. If they decide to come and kill you in the ealrly game you just die of you dont have a perfect defensive spot (happened to me already 2 or 3 times just dying in 50 turns to shaka...)
i will try this one and i guess you have two options:
1) Try not to scout Shaka or do it late (which requires map knowledge so a bit cheesy)
2) Just get so much units you are able to survive (especially you need some melee units because freaking range damage reduction and maybe get the Tradition policy with the more dmg from cities...

 

[RedRover57]

Spoiler :

Um yeah...I decided to settle 2 tiles west to also grab the 2 cotton and 4 cows total, then on turn 6 Shaka settled a city 3 tiles away. I will likely leave this one for you masochists.

 

[_megafone_]

Is this your idea of a masochistic challenge?

Spoiler :

GODMODE Petra city with a Faith Natural Wonder, with Shaka sharing borders with basically the whole map? Is that your idea of a masochistic challenge?

I'm finishing this game in one sitting, lol.

 

[glory7]

Spoiler :

For OCC, I really prefer to have river and observatory. I scouted NE but didn't like the spot - and I saw desert tiles so took a gamble to move NE more. It really paid off - river sinai! there was only one lux, but well, that's okay.

ran sinai for 2 turns and got DF to start.

When I saw Zulu, I was like...omg I had more than enough impis when I played DC26...

I wanted to beeline petra, but it was so obvious that zulu would come soon. I built 5 archers and teched construction, and then beelined to currency. I didn't sell embassy to civs that I might lose petra to.

Right after building petra, I saw that zulu was coming, as expected. Built 3 zaguars and upgraded them. Bought 3 irons from iroquis...

After getting GG and citadel, defense got much easier. After civil service, teched to machinary so that I could upgrade CBs.

Meanwhile, DoFed with 4 civs and ran RAs. France DoWed me but his units actually helped me to defend. His pike and CBs are much easier to handle... compared to impis and knights...

While writing this, I just realized that going for arty won't help much - as it's OCC, I cannot sell cities so no point going offensive. I should change tech to sci theory.

Only possible VC seems to be sci one.

 

[RedRover57]

Spoiler :

I tried once more just for the heck of it. Settled in place. I was able to bribe Shaka to attack France and this kept him from DoWing me early. I was able to grow, build the NC and get 2 trade routes to his cities. I also had DoF's with Russia, Morocco, Iroquois and Sweden, so I had decent cash. However on about T90 he took one of France's cities and made peace. I tried desperately to get him to war with Morocco (the only other civ near him) but to no avail. Sure enough he Dowed me a few turns later and it only took him 3 turns to kill all of my units and 2 turns after that to capture my capital (turn 99). He had an army of 16 impis, knights and catapults. It took me 2 turns to kill one impi with all of my comp bows combined (4) plus the city attack (with Oligarchy). After this game and the other challenge I think I will reroll on Deity if I see Shaka within 20 turns of the start.

 

[_megafone_]

This is too easy.

Spoiler :

Turn 133 now, and still no wars. Shaka is close enough to Napoleon that it's easy to send him south. After France gets rolled over, the Zulu are right in the middle of the map, with enemies at all sides - I don't even have to bribe him to go to war anymore, as he's hated by EVERY other civ and is on constant war.

I was handed almost free reign on religion, at absolutely no cost; I'll probably be able to convert the whole pangaea, and with World Religion keeping my cpt rolling I don't even need GAMW specialists, which helps my cap grow faster. Gonna try hitting Forbidden Palace and Porcelain Tower next.

Started on Pottery, then went straight for Petra, which I hit before turn 70. A shame Russia got the Hanging Gardens; I could break my own fastest win record if I had it ^^

For those who are having trouble with the "buying Shaka" thing, piece of advice: he's hungry as hell, even when it doesn't show. Early game, if you have him close, ALL YOUR GOLD IS HIS. Don't fret about giving him 6gpt out of the blue just because he looks cool; you NEED him to like you. The "We traded recently" bonus doesn't work if you try it once he's already decided to attack you, but it changes his behaviour if you do it early and often.

 

[RedRover57]

@glory7

Spoiler :

Good idea to move as far away from Shaka as possible. Maybe the best move would have been to embark with the settler and just keep swimming.

Edit: @megafone, didn't see your post earlier

Spoiler :

However, the only way this worked was because of map knowledge. There is no way you would know to move up there without it. 99.999% of people would settle near the starting site without prior map knowledge.

 

[_megafone_]

@glory7

Spoiler :

Good idea to move as far away from Shaka as possible. Maybe the best move would have been to embark with the settler and just keep swimming.

Edit: @megafone, didn't see your post earlier

Spoiler :

However, the only way this worked was because of map knowledge. There is no way you would know to move up there without it. 99.999% of people would settle near the starting site without prior map knowledge.

Spoiler :

You're wrong. This is OCC, moving the settler is commonplace. You pretty much NEED an Observatory, and Desert starts are by far the best. An experienced OCC player would never, ever settle in the starting location knowing there's a mountain range nearby (you can see it from starting location), and once you move in that direction, the Natural Wonder is right there.

I was actually going to settle where those Horses appeared (grassland, mountain + river, 4 tiles below where I put my cap), and then I moved my Warrior over the desert and was like OMFG JACKPOT.

 

[RedRover57]

Spoiler :

I can definitely understand moving toward the mountains, but there was also some luck involved since you must have moved your jaguar perfectly to spot the wonder prior to settling. This challenge seems void now since it's even better than finding El Dorado or FoY nearby. Or maybe someone can still pull off a win without moving up there?

 

[flairin]

I don't play Diety ever, save a few times, but I may try this just to see how long I can survive... Was thinking about playing as Monti soon anyway

 

[_megafone_]

Spoiler :

I can definitely understand moving toward the mountains, but there was also some luck involved since you must have moved your jaguar perfectly to spot the wonder prior to settling. This challenge seems void now since it's even better than finding El Dorado or FoY nearby. Or maybe someone can still pull off a win without moving up there?

Obviously it was luck LOL . Didn't say it wasn't heheh.

 

[_megafone_]

Turn 267 Science win.

Spoiler :

Pretty straightforward; I wasn't touched for the entirety of the game. By the end, I had DoF with everybody (except Shaka) and they all hated everyone else. It was just a matter of beelining the key techs and waiting for RAs to kick in.

With the low number of CSs, the Forbidden Palace basically ensured that I'd win every vote I tried, and I used that to boost up even more my CPT with heritage sites. I didn't want to ruin my diplomatic ties to everybody so I avoided any controversial stuff. Even doing so, I got World Religion because Morocco proposed it, lol. I almost managed to get the entire pangaea to my religion without much effort - if I had sent a Prophet down to the Iroquois I'd probably pull it off... having Mt. Sinai in your cap is definitely ridiculous.

Also, I never had such a big city. If I had HG I could conceivably hit 60 pop, lol. Aztec UB is quite powerful!

@OP: I was actually trying rolling maps with a similar idea in mind earlier (Aztec OCC), but I had fixed the opponents as Huns, Zulu, Assyria, Greece, Rome, Japan and Mongols. You should've done that LOL

 

[Moriarte]

Congrats, mega! Quick question. What is the GS bulbing procedure in BNW for science victory? I only played dom. thus far, so a little bit in the dark as to how science is properly done. I noticed you settled about 6. What of the rest? Did you bulb them as they appeared or saved them for a final push (like in GK)? Thanks.

 

[flairin]

On t74 I am still alive... I haven't played any Diety in well over a year (not even immortal). In fact, I defeated the Zulu (destroyed one of his cities) in our first skirmish then went peace after noticing that Shaka had Impi. I'm friends with, Russia, Morocco, and Sweden.

All I really did was spam units (archers and Jags) till about t50 then declared on the Zulu. I lured him in to my borders then just whacked his units... good for some culture I went Tradition then Oligarchy so I could better weaken the enemy. Then I went Honor, Warrior Code, then Discipline.

Russia quite a bit ahead in science so I am getting a little science from our trade route (+5 science). My city size is only 6. I settled my capital adjacent to the mountains inside the river where there are two desert tiles. Nice place cause I am able to work the iron, horses, two luxury resources. Plus protection from mountains. I planted a citadel where the river forks next to the cows. I think I will leave the forest for further protection.

So far I am alive with some units, yet I really need to catch up. Producing 0 faith (only 20 needed for next Pantheon) and only 4 culture per turn thanx to Tradition opener. Really milked culture from unit kills!!

Made it till t150

 

[_megafone_]

Congrats, mega! Quick question. What is the GS bulbing procedure in BNW for science victory? I only played dom. thus far, so a little bit in the dark as to how science is properly done. I noticed you settled about 6. What of the rest? Did you bulb them as they appeared or saved them for a final push (like in GK)? Thanks.

I start bulbing after building Research Labs, right after they spawn; bpt doesn't go up too noticeably after that. Before that, I plant. Around 1000bpt seem good in my experience.

 

[casualplayer]

Attempt 2 is more like the _megafone_ experience.

Spoiler :

Still settled the Sinai/riverside Desert hill spot, which became a Pyramids/Petra powerhouse. This time Zulu hated France first, then Russia. Caravans, his and mine, are making all his cities Buddhist which means more Culture for me. Biggest jam-up in this game was taking 3 Turns past 200 Faith, 5 turns past 300 to pop a Great Prophet.
Just a big lovefest with Research Agreements flying everywhere, except everybody hates Zulu for exterminating France. I signed IIRC 7 RAs at 250 per. Turn 177 and about to find out if I have any Aluminum.
It is still nerve wracking to have all those units camping my borders. Walking a tightrope here.