Deity start near aztecs: game over?

[Loxas]

Turn 9 Montezuma declares war, 2 eagle warriors near the borders. Already had previous experiences with this, sometimes he declares war turn 12, 13 etc., but never so early.

Anyway, in those previous experiences I was absolutely crushed by the eagles, so this time I just thought: screw it, exit to main menu

Is there anyway to fight the aztecs if you start near them on deity? Or give up is the only option? This time I was training a scout, but even on the times I had a slinger and a warrior ready to fight they were just useless

 

[Victoria]

I have been similarly killed by Japan, when they are close and all their warriors are forced your way then they will DOW and there was little I could do against Japan and eagles ar worse.
The only thing is to play the diplomacy trick. I doubt it will work as I think the decision path to attack you is based more on your vulnerability and proximity (and for joint wars it can just be to be mates with another civ)
Turn 10 is too early for open borders (early empire civic) and you will have nothing to trade so the best you can try is a delegation andthe pitiful money you have. Both I doubt will help. Deity is not supposed to be kill & win every time so I am fine with this 'bad luck' with the RNG but others disagree.

 

[Loxas]

I have been similarly killed by Japan, when they are close and all their warriors are forced your way then they will DOW and there was little I could do against Japan and eagles ar worse.

Yeah it happened to me with other civs this ultra early war, but with the others I kept imagining how to react better next time. But against eagle warriors I have no idea, feels like it's just about hoping he will be friendly to you

 

[Arilian]

I had similar experience, but my starting warrior was very far always when he attacked and I almost never try the same map again. At least I have seen the defeat video finally

 

[Victoria]

I played a deity today next to Tomyris... she took out the CS next to me quickly and I was struggling to get friendly with her..... then Trajan denounced her so I suggested a joint war against him.... worked a treat
All I can say was thank god for the CS between us

On about turn 150 now and she will not be friends again despite my careful nurturing. It seems they have done a good job of decaying such relationships over time.

 

[Bobfregman]

Whenever I play on Diety I work under the assumption that I'll be invaded by turn 25. However a turn 9 invasion, by monty no less, is indeed a grave situation. It's definitely possible to win diety games where he's your neighbor, in fact I've had a few games where he was my neighbor and I fully conquered him in the first 50 turns, but if he rushes you right away it can be very tough. I like to make sure my first warrior is exploring in a ring pattern around my capital until I've established my defenses that way I can always quickly bring him back if I need to. Start with slingers and go AH-Archery immediately. A few turns makes a huge difference here. A turn 9 invasion is going to be really tough but by turn 15 I'd feel pretty comfortable with it. It may suck when it happens but this is one of the neat things about civ, even the very best players won't win every game they try on Diety

 

[Bro]

Try to settle your first city in a choke point or on an area which you can defend easily.

 

[Victoria]

Try now after the patch... You think you had it bad then?
It seems like every game but then again I have not played lower

 

[Chibisuke]

I just had a game start me next to Monty and I wiped him out no problem with me playing as Australia. For sure, having him declare war by turn 9 is very tough. That will likely be a very rare occurrence. However, the way to consistently beat your neighbor AI on deity is always the same.

First you have to keep in mind that the AI is strongest when they are taking YOU by surprise with a sneak attack and weakest when you take them by surprise with a sneak attack. This is always true no matter when and how many troops they have vs your troops. Thus, the smart thing to do if you find Monty as your closest neighbor (and same with any AI really) is locate their capital with your first warrior, wait for theit 2nd settler to come out (in some cases I have been lucky enough to find them before even the first settler came out) and as soon as that settler is by itself and in range, declare surprise war and take it. It doesn't matter how many troops you have at this point. Often I only have my warrior and one slinger.

What you've done now is initiated the war BEFORE the AI was ready. If you look closely, the AI will ready itself for war by massing all its troops on your border and just hopes to overwhelm your defenses with a blitzkreig attack. If you start the war before they can do that, now they have all their troops scattered around and likely can only engage you with one or two at a time. This is where you start using your tactics to pick them off one by one. In the meantime, you are building up your army of slingers and upgrading them to archers.

Eventually, you picked off all of Montys eagle warriors and can march on his city with 4-5 archers and a warrior, and take at least one more city before forcing him into a peace deal where he gives you everything.

 

[Victoria]

This is always true no matter when and how many troops they have vs your troops

they are weakest after you wipe their army out when they attacked you and you turtled?

If you feint them with a cople of archers on one side with a suprise attack it works better

 

[Chibisuke]

Turtle is not my current play style because I don't like to leave it up to the AI to choose when and where the war is on deity. The AI is just so powerful with their bonuses that if I start next to an aggressive, warlike AI I like to take the fight to them before they can set up their attack force. I think that is the safest option. It is possible to use the diplomacy game to stay in their good graces but I've seen too many times where an aggressive AI sneak attacks me even when we are friends.

 

[DrCron]

Any AI can DOW you before turn 20 on Deity. Monty or Gilgamesh will be the worst cases, but Teddy on your continent is a big issue too. There's really nothing to do apart from going slinger-slinger as the 2 first builds as a general rule, and animal husbandry-archery as your tech path. If you get DOW'd by turn 15 or earlier, just get another slinger and upgrade to archers asap. With 3 archers and a warrior you should be able to deal with an attack that early (because it will likely not include archers until a bit later). Then keep building warriors and archers, and once you deal with the attacking army, go ahead and take one enemy city, that will probably not have walls yet.

 

[KmDubya]

I'd say a nearby Scythia is the worst. Aztec warriors still die to archers and are outclassed if you have horses or iron. Warcarts are a big threat early but again archers can take them. Scythian horsemen are the strongest unit type when they come online and she gets two for one which favors her in any sort of long attrition type war.

I was America without horses or iron and Scythia had horses and better land. The ability to crank out two horsemen at a time along with 50% heal on kill just turned into an impossible zerg. Spearmen lose against horses and archers can get two shot which results in a massive heal for the horsemen. Eventually got peace after using multiple catapults to take her capitol but it left me broke, and backwards. Without the +5 continental bonus for America it'd have been much worse.

The new barbarian Ai that repeatedly spawned in the edge of the fog did not help me either.

 

[kamex]

In short I'll say "Yes". there is already a lot of luck in this game as discussed in other threads - start position, aggressive neighbours, how many cs you meet etc.

I think playing Deity (or above Prince at all) multiplies this luck even more. its bad enough being attacked by anybody on Deity because of the increased combat strength and the units they can spam out, but if they are spamming units which are already op such as War Carts, that combined with the difficulty buffs makes it almost impossible, or at least not enjoyable in my opinion.

 

[Victoria]

There is soo much luck on deity as in your start position and your neighbors position count for so much more. As the game progresses the luck is less.... but the AI bonus is more. A good player knows how to counteract those bonuses