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The Bronze Age definitely ended sooner in the Asiatics than in Europe.

Neo Syrian being the same as the Neo-Assyrians? I can't find anything on Neo Syrian otherwise. I don't know much about that region, so I'll defer to you on it. If it's the same, the empire that lead to the Neo-Babylonians then to the Achaemenids and so on and so forth, definitely seems like a good thing to read up on.
 
I figured as much, just wanted to make sure. The concept of Ancient to Classical isn't defined, so there really isn't a right or wrong answer. 1000 BCE works well for balance reasons, giving a smoother transition from the amount of turns per year from Ancient to Medieval.
 
I think any time between 1300 and 600 BC is reasonable, given that "Classical" is such a relative term. If you're talking about materials technology, late 2nd millennium is probably more accurate. If language and literature is the marker, perhaps 500 years later. There's also a lot of natural drift in game, and the new split science/culture trees make it even more of a moving target.

Firaxis actually used the civ5 progression (verbatim), which is why it's majorly out of whack. My guess is that they see their tech tree and yield progression as WIP, so they won't bother tuning it until later. It sure stands out though, doesn't it?
 
Ancient also has 3 tiers of techs, and civics are slow-going until you get some culture production up. The Ancient era lasts quite awhile in-game.
 
You should probably also list any other mods you are using that affect game balance in any way whatsoever.
 
20,000! You're famous!
 
Question on the game calender, your master table has 9 entries for all other speeds, and 10 entries on epic, is that on purpose?, anyways, i looked at it to see if i can extend the game calender when playing on larger maps, ie more space more cities, more means quicker, and im back to looking at the date and thinking it dont matter....but it bugs me!.

Any ideas on how to optimise a map size to influence calender changes?,
So here are my timings for my first complete game. Epic, Small Continents map as China on Emperor (my 'comfortable' difficulty). Mods active are 8AoP, 8AoW, AI+ and a few minor ones that shouldn't matter here. I did very little warring and mostly concentrated on grabbing tons of early game wonders and then getting large, powerful cities. I'd consider this a relaxed game and I'm happy with the timings I got. I entered the eras at:
Classical: 850BC, Medieval 352AD, Renaissance 938AD, Industrial 1446AD, Modern 1775AD, Atomic 1922AD, Information 1967AD
With the AI slightly ahead of me at Classical and medieval and then gradually falling behind (except Kongo). I was most ahead at Ren/Ind/Mod, but that's when my strategy was always going to pay off the highest dividends. With only 8 cities, I struggled with the massive research costs of the late game until I got research labs online.

If you have similar 'reports' please share and we can fine tune the numbers.

In other news: 8 Ages of Pace has 20,000 active subscribers on steam! It's always nice to see a project go this well, if you enjoy this mod and haven't done so already, please consider giving a thumbs up, I want to see how high up the rankings we can push it.



Terrific mod, and youve made it easy to adjust with your master table, nice work.
 
Let me know if it does!

Btw, it's highly likely that R&F will break most mods anyway, and I don't intend to buy the expansion straight away, so the mod is unlikely to get fixed for a few months

You made this post in 8AoW, and I wanted to know whether you think 8AoP will break as well, and it does, would it be possible to remove some files and leave some to at least have the slower eras (with possible adjustments depending on what feels right) left?
 
You made this post in 8AoW, and I wanted to know whether you think 8AoP will break as well, and it does, would it be possible to remove some files and leave some to at least have the slower eras (with possible adjustments depending on what feels right) left?

It looks to me like 8AoP is safe to use with Rise and Fall.
 
My experience without 8AoP:

Late game techs still too cheap, additionally all eras (except, it seems, Modern Era, which is the next one) have come almost as early as possible. This is on Emperor.

Suggestions (if you intend to update it for R&F, otherwise I'm gonna try figure out how to do it myself):

1. A bit of a lighter version of 8AoP to slow down techs. I already tweaked my own 8AoP file to do this because I felt it was too heavy in the base game, but I think I would have to tweak it a bit further. (I also removed the faster road movement and slower city growth but that's unrelated)
2. If Golden Ages are too easy (independent of eras getting longer because of 8AoP or not), increase base threshold from 12 to 15 for both Normal and Golden Age, maybe increase change in required score after Dark/Golden age from 5 to 6.

I would note though, that the era score seems fine at least for the early era's. I felt like I was doing pretty well in the classical era, but didn't manage to get a Golden Age. After that I started snowballing out of control though, and I'm now like 15 above the threshold with more than 10 turns to go still, and this will be my third Golden Age in a row. Then again, I did get 6 French cities from conquering + loyalty flipping.
 
After that I started snowballing out of control though, and I'm now like 15 above the threshold with more than 10 turns to go still, and this will be my third Golden Age in a row. Then again, I did get 6 French cities from conquering + loyalty flipping.

This is going to be really tricky to balance, for exactly your experience of getting many golden ages. The difficulty in balancing era score points is that they accumulate throughout the game, so a few extra points per era can really add up.
 
This is going to be really tricky to balance, for exactly your experience of getting many golden ages. The difficulty in balancing era score points is that they accumulate throughout the game, so a few extra points per era can really add up.

I'm now playing a game with Tamar (great for stacking Golden Ages on top of one another) and I got a GA in the medieval era, which I used for Exodus of the Evangelists, but even with the superpowered missionaries and apostles and era score for every converted city I only got the required era score for another Golden Age in the LAST turn, and that was because I chopped my first UU.

So I think it's much better balanced if you're not totally snowballing out of control. But yeah, maybe it should be something like a base of 8 or 10 required (instead of 12), -5 for every Dark Age, +8 (instead of +5) for every Golden Age and then most importantly +2 (instead of +1) for every city you have, because simply having more cities to build things and everything seems to be a good era score generator.

Edit: And the very next era I am far, far ahead of the points required for a Golden Age, but then again I did convert several civilizations with my wave of Proseletyzers (+ a bunch of Debaters for stray apostles from others)
 
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Is it balanced though? I can think of a few potential issues:
1) science per pop has been reduced, do the tech rate could be too slow now
2) global era is calculated differently, do slowing down tech could make it super weird
3) eras being slower make it too easy to get enough points for golden ages

As for being balanced... I'm not sure. I feel like I'm getting way ahead of the game era, which suggests to me teching isn't too slow, but there is something else going on that is making the game eras pass too slowly. I'm honestly not sure if it's related to 8AoP or not, because I know Firaxis implemented a "minimum" period of X turns per era, and it could be that I'm simply teching too fast for that.
 
RE: Ballance

Perhaps? Rather I guess one would say, it depends.

This is pretty unscientific and "feels like" type observations so take it with a grain of salt. I also play with Magil's wonderous wonders so that has it's own effects as well.

With all that pre-amble out of the way, I think that Rise and Fall have made the game even more map dependant. So much so that luck of the draw / map layout is going to have a pretty hearty effect as to whether one snowballs or not.

I feel like 8AoP has a synergizing effect based on the other prevalant conditions. Kind of like a multiplier of extant forces. When you're snowballing 8AoP won't stop you at all, but when you're struggling or in the hole, 8AoP is very noticable then.

Like I said tho that's all kinda gut reaction however, so what the hell do I know...
 
My experience playing with 8AoP in Rise and Fall on Marathon settings is that I no longer have that old 8AoP feeling of getting to spend a lot of time in each era. I used to play and have many turns when cities had no additional buildings they could create - this is not the case in my R&F game. I'm once again struggling to keep my development abreast of my technology advancement.
 
>Does the minimum/maximum length of game eras also need to be adjusted?

I don't think so, too long and you always get a golden age, too short and you'll get too many dark ages.
 
I've got a few questions:
Did the cost of techs change with the patch or R&F? If so, then 2) should be adjusted.
Is the formula for the era thresholds above correct? Or at least consistent with peoples experience.
Does the minimum/maximum length of game eras also need to be adjusted?
How do the numbers I've got above sound to people?

(1) No, but boosts were reduced to 40% instead of 50%, in Rise and Fall at least. In addition, techs behind the current game era are reduced in cost by 20%, while techs ahead of the current game era are increased in cost by 20%.
(2) Looks like your numbers are accurate to me. Based on GlobalParameters.xml.
(3) My experience is that they should probably be a bit shorter. But, that may be based on my playstyle.
(4) My opinion would be that your numbers at the top-level are probably good, but I might hold off on lowering the cost of the techs for the first few eras. I feel those are in a good place, like, Medieval-Industrial all seems good.
 
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