Delicate situation in a war

[hr_oskar]

In my current game I'm winning a war against my neighbour the Iroquois. They started the war with 8 cities and I have captured two. They're completely worn down, at very high war weariness and unable to spam units anymore, leaving my army with an open field to take one city after another. War score is currently at 72 but I want to capitulate them so peace is not on the table yet.

So far so good.

What I'm worried about is that they're also at war with the Celts and the Inca. Those two civs are on a different land mass, have almost no units in the Iroquois home territory, have not captured any cities in the war.... yet they both have a war score of 76! Ridiculous. Apparently they're piggybacking on my victory.

I'm not worried that they will take any Iroquois cities or actually do anything meaningful. What I'm worried about is the Iroquois capitulating either to the Inca or the Celts. Is that possible? Is capitulation entirely based on war score or is it also conditioned on who's conquered cities and is rampaging through the home territory? If it's possible, what's my best way to prevent it?

 

[CrazyG]

I see this happen quite often, but I have never noticed actual resources exchanging hands in the peace deal due to this.

I would try to vassal them if you don't have a vassal already (if you get 2 the AI gets mad). Keep in mind if they are really that weak, there is a good possibility the will enter vassalage peacefully.

 

[Bascule2000]

What I'm worried about is the Iroquois capitulating either to the Inca or the Celts. Is that possible?

Yes it's possible. It's why I play without vassals as an option. The incident that made me switch vassals off was when I was at war with Germany, marching on Berlin with an unstoppable force, and Germany capitulated to William, who he wasn't even at war with. I had a declaration of friendship with William. I found myself suddenly at peace, unable to renew the war without backstabbing Holland, and unable to escape from my tiny corner of the map (Germany blocked me by land).

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

Wasn't there a change recently that a civ can't capitulate to another if it's at war with a third civ and has a war score of "-75" or something like that? I think that change was specifically made to prevent such situations where a civ could escape a heavily losing war by submitting to another civ.

 

[hr_oskar]

I see this happen quite often, but I have never noticed actual resources exchanging hands in the peace deal due to this.

I would try to vassal them if you don't have a vassal already (if you get 2 the AI gets mad). Keep in mind if they are really that weak, there is a good possibility the will enter vassalage peacefully.

Well, I'm trying to vassal them already. And I would be certain to succeed if not for this potential risk.

I didn't think war score worked this way - I thought it was based on what each side has achieved in the war. The offshore civs have done nothing to merit a war score of 76 after less than 10 turns of war, while I have been at war for some 30-ish turns, have demolished the Iroquois army, pillaged their lands, captured two major cities, and currently threaten their defenseless capital with an army they have no chance to defeat....

Do all the free AI's get mad if I have more than one vassal? As in, do they all turn 'hostile'?

Yes it's possible. It's why I play without vassals as an option. The incident that made me switch vassals off was when I was at war with Germany, marching on Berlin with an unstoppable force, and Germany capitulated to William, who he wasn't even at war with. I had a declaration of friendship with William. I found myself suddenly at peace, unable to renew the war without backstabbing Holland, and unable to escape from my tiny corner of the map (Germany blocked me by land).

Very frustrating.

 

[Txurce]

Do all the free AI's get mad if I have more than one vassal? As in, do they all turn 'hostile'?

They don't turn "hostile" overnight, but it's a bright red mark against you. That doesn't mean it's not worth doing, but it's worth weighing it in your decision.

 

[CrazyG]

I didn't think war score worked this way

Its what is displayed in that tool tip, I think the information displayed is misleading, the acutal war score (for terms of gameplay) is working as intended as far as I can tell

 

[hr_oskar]

Its what is displayed in that tool tip, I think the information displayed is misleading, the acutal war score (for terms of gameplay) is working as intended as far as I can tell

Hmm... so maybe the other civs couldn't actually capitulate the Iroquois even though the tooltip says they have 76 war score (which could potentially go up)?

 

[ridjack]

Wasn't there a change recently that a civ can't capitulate to another if it's at war with a third civ and has a war score of "-75" or something like that? I think that change was specifically made to prevent such situations where a civ could escape a heavily losing war by submitting to another civ.

Have any idea where you saw this? I'd love for this to be true, but I don't remember seeing it.

 

[LukaSlovenia29]

No, I don't remember when or where, it was in one of the changelog discussions. But I'm 97% certain of it. I hope Gazebo or someone else will see this thread and clarify this.

 

[ridjack]

No, I don't remember when or where, it was in one of the changelog discussions. But I'm 97% certain of it. I hope Gazebo or someone else will see this thread and clarify this.

You have to use his summoning sign: @Gazebo, we call you forth!

 

[Paramecium]

As far as I know, the warscore is not just about losses and captured cities, but about relative military and economic might. If the Iroquois are at the point, that they dont / cant build any units anymore and you plundered completely their lands, it might be, that the Celts and Inca just have huge armies and big treasures.

At least that might be the explanation about those high war scores, I assume your army is more little compared to those carpets of doom the AI will have (especially on Deity, I assume).

If it is changed or not I cant say, I had those situations too and often tried to avoid it, your friend is, that they cant make peace I think for 10 turns after the DOW, so finish it at fast as possible. I had it once long ago (I dont know which version it was), that I warred as Germany with France, took a lot of cities and marched on Paris, but the Ottomans declared France too and took it right before me, leaving france with one city and vassalizing it, even when I was the one making all the work. One of those few moments, where I rage reloaded...

 

[CrazyG]

No, I don't remember when or where, it was in one of the changelog discussions. But I'm 97% certain of it. I hope Gazebo or someone else will see this thread and clarify this.

You cannot become a vassal while at war, except as a result of a peace deal. The change was added because you got these gimmicky moments where you were conquering someone, and he would become a vassal, ending the war with no peace agreement

 

[Gazebo]

Yes it's possible. It's why I play without vassals as an option. The incident that made me switch vassals off was when I was at war with Germany, marching on Berlin with an unstoppable force, and Germany capitulated to William, who he wasn't even at war with. I had a declaration of friendship with William. I found myself suddenly at peace, unable to renew the war without backstabbing Holland, and unable to escape from my tiny corner of the map (Germany blocked me by land).

Hasn’t been possible in over 6 months.

G

 

[hr_oskar]

Turns out the Iroquois made peace with all the other civs a few turns later, so the coast is clear for me to finish them off.