Democracy not working out

[countduckula]

So I've read quite a few of Starlifters old posts about democracy, and what a fantastic system of government it is.

But every time I adopt it on Prince level, I get owned.

I try to follow Starlifter (and others) advice.

The general trend of my game is that once I get democracy, I blaze ahead of the AI in regards to techs. Then the AI gets all pissy. I appease it, it still sneak attacks and takes my cities. I try to retaliate, but the Senate overrules me. Suddenly the enemy civs ally and relentlessly attack me. My cities are undefended because I can't afford to have defenders, so they are easily taken.

I try to raise a force to counterattack, but I don't have the gold/shields, and even when I have a minor army and try to mobilize it, my entire civ goes into anarchy. Then the AI just waltzes in an takes my cities and techs, they become equal in technology, and then send bombers over to finish me off.

Several components of democracy really cripple me:

1. The Senate over-ruling my actions. Quite often I'll be 'sneak attacked' by the AI. I'll often lose a city or two and have a couple of techs stolen, and then the AI will sue for peace. The Senate forces me to accept this peace, meaning that I've lost one or two of my cities, and I don't have the chance to recoupe my losses.

This handicap also applies to those god damn diplomats. The AI sends diplomats to steal my knowledge, and the Senate doesn't allow me to retaliate. What a joke!

2. Every unit requiring a support shield. This is really frustrating. If I make city defenders, I don't have enough shields to obtain upgrades. If I want upgrades, I need to ditch my defenders. No defenders means that the belligerent AI just walks into my cities with little opposition.

I would rush buy my upgrades, but I don't have the money. How do I get the money? By obtaining the upgrades to increase my trade and tax income (eg. Bank, Superhighways, Airports. Paradox.

I may be light years ahead of the AI in techs, but so what? If those techs remain 'abstract' concepts and don't materialize on the battlefield, what's the point? A civilization with 20 knights is superior to a civilization which 'could' produce a bomber.

3. Unhappiness away from home. This is a joke, how can I conduct a war when my cities revolt simply because I have troops outside of a friendly city? And if you don't rectify this unhappiness within one turn, your government is overthrown. What a load of cack, the Ancient Greeks were democratic, but they didn't revolt every 2 years because their troops weren't stationed in a city.

I had the happiness wonders (Michaelangelo's, J.S Bach's, Women's Suffrage), temples and colloseums in every city, but that doesn't really help, because the 'unhappy away from home' penalty is applied afterwards. The exception to this is Shakespeare's theatre, but that only applies to one city. One city might be able to support my ship chain, but not much else.

And what good is it to rely on Happiness Wonders? There's no guarantee you'll beat the AI to building them, but even then, it's touch or go with the Luxury metre and entertainers to keep your thankless citizens happy.

Some players would agree and say that democracy sucks during wartime, and that you should switch to fundy/communism/monarchy if you plan an all out war. I don't find that advice very practical, given that you first need to waste time overthrowing the existing govt., and then build an army from scratch while the AI ravages your civ.

 

[BaconLad]

Hi,

Reading your well written post it's clear that your quite an intelligent individual and possibly a better civ2 player than myself. However I might have an idea of where your going wrong.
I had some similar problems when adopting democracy, then I read part of a thread (can't remember by whom) that changed my perspective.
It said something along the lines of "I hate it when people switch to democracy before there civ is ready". Then I realised, its all about preperation, preparing my civ for democracy.
After having this revelation I did abit more reading, alot of experimenting and eventually came up with some rules that I try to stick to before switching to democracy, some seem to be essential, some not so much, but do help me dominate the game absolute.

The 1st thing I attempt to do at the start of any game is contain as many rival civs as possible. Basicly confineing them to there 1st couple of cities and making sure they dont expand beyond that point and eventually limiting them to only one city. This has a massive effect on the game.
This can be done initially with diplomats. I attempt to set up what I call a "spiderweb" directly around there closest cities. I then attempt to move in the odd military unit to set up "choke points", ensuring that the tribe will not expand. Every civ you manage to contain will be "worshipful" unitll the end - guaranteed, and will therefore never declare war on you or initiate an espionage attempt.

The wonders you listed all all important, but the one's you missed were the United Nations and cure for cancer.

Trade (in my opinion) is the most important aspect of switching to democracy, and this is why.
With an effective trade network, you can set luxuries between 80% and 100%(almost completly eliminating unhappiness) and still discover a tech every turn and generate revenue of anything between approx 1000 and 5000 gold every other turn.
At this point money is no object, so I will disband all fortified military units in the field (eliminating all unhappiness 100%) and replace them with diplomats/spys to simply bribe my way thru skirmishes.
It's vital to have your trade network in place before you switch.

Theres little point in me attempting to write how this is done, as there are some superb in depth guides available right here on this website that you would greatly benefit from.

Just remember, it's all about preparing to switch.

 

[Magic_gorter]

One important thing to keep you're cities out of disorder is not to have to many military units build. Perhaps some at the borders. Just as Baconlad mentions have enough dips or spies and having an good trade network will do the trick. Enough money will come in to bribe any city (back) and RB city improvements. When a civ then tries to attack, you can easily counterattack (or when they steal something declare war) and RB some good attacking units to kill that civ.... It works every time I play it. It is wise not to have a 80% luxury rate but a little lower..(40-50%). It's enough to keep you're cities celebrate (they must have marketplace, bank, etc). Then you can set science and taxes around 30% and get enough research and money.

 

[civiijkw]

I don't know about the Prince level, but at deity level even contained AIs that are worshipfully at peace with you can still use diplomats to steal tech. If you have the UN that is usually enough justification to declare a war (but only if they actually had peace with you at the time of the theft). Then you can use your spies to buy their (non-stacked) units and crush them. If you are playing for points in a long game then you can obliterate their army (you might lose a unit), hit their water supply until they are size one (you might lose spies), sabotage their production and city improvements (you might lose spies) and then keep them at that level. I've seen that if you are at war but there is no actual player-vs-AI combat going on then you can still get the peace bonus.

You may be overlooking the value of a defensive shell of diplomats/spies. They don't require any support and can be in the field without causing a happiness hit. Also, another part of this prep that you may be missing is that you can use diplomats/spies to buy AI units. If the bribing square is closer to an AI city than to any of yours then the supporting city is NONE and you will not take a happiness hit if it is in the field (the same is true if you get a unit from a hut/goody-box and the city closest to the hut is an AI city). You might be able to get a decent-sized expeditionary defense force that has free support.

Another thing you may be missing (only available in democracy) is that a "we love the president's day" can give you bonus city growth (no food hit to grow, and if there is a food growth on tap then you could go up two sizes at the year-end rather than only one). To get them you need happy cities (no unhappy people, I think a majority of the citizens have to be happy rather than merely content, and I think the city has to already be size 3).

 

[Prof. Garfield]

It sounds like part of your trouble is that you are having trouble with prince level, not just democracy. If you are having trouble surviving a difficulty level as it is, don't try to learn democracy at the same time. Go down a level and manage democracy there for some time until you get used to it.

2. Every unit requiring a support shield. This is really frustrating. If I make city defenders, I don't have enough shields to obtain upgrades. If I want upgrades, I need to ditch my defenders. No defenders means that the belligerent AI just walks into my cities with little opposition.

I would rush buy my upgrades, but I don't have the money. How do I get the money? By obtaining the upgrades to increase my trade and tax income (eg. Bank, Superhighways, Airports. Paradox.

How do you get improvements/units when units don't require support? If you have enough production to get them in decent time, then supporting one or two units shouldn't be too big a burden. If production is limited to begin with, you should be rushing most things because they will otherwise take too long to build anyway. This brings us to cashflow, which should help with most of your problems.

Trade!!! Your cities should be working trade squares and you should be producing caravans. If you have a nearby civ, ideally a perfectionist civ, send caravans to the best cities and trade, trade, trade. The ongoing bonuses can really boost your city trade and the delivery bonus will provide you with a good amount gold (and science) to rushbuy with. The money will also allow you to subvert cities (getting around any losses), provide any defence needed, and rush more caravans to continue the process. Trade also improves attitudes of foreigners.

If possible, post a save of your game. Looking at a save is a much easier way to detect problems in play, than to determine it from the problems adressed in posts.

 

[civiijkw]

BaconLad mentioned Cure for Cancer. The person who first introduced me to Civ said that he preferred playing in communism because of the difficulty in avoiding civil disorder in democracy. He also stated that the Hanging Gardens and Cure for Cancer were virtually worthless wonders. Finally, he said that you could play at emperor level but would get squished at deity. For his style of play that was correct, but when I decided to try building the Hanging Gardens at deity in democracy I noticed that I no longer had to make my first worker an entertainer to avoid civil disorder. Later I found that the Cure for Cancer makes it possible for the latter cities in a large civ to actually grow at an acceptible rate. Both of those fix happiness after the expeditionary force hit. My friend has since tried it and has found that it actually is possible to play a democracy.

In the event you do have a problem with not being able to start wars, you can still do a government change. Either get the Statue of Liberty or do it just before an OEDO year so that you limit the amount of time spent in anarchy.

By the way, if you are planning to be the biggest, baddest civ in the game then play one of the purple civs (Souix, Indian, Mongol) to get a better research rate.

 

[Ace]

Lots of good advice here, but the most important point has been missed. In CivII, you must expand or die! You cannot co-exist in peace with the AIs. Eventually, as you become more and more powerful, they will turn on you, especially in MPG, so, you need to acquire AI cities at every opportunity. Early on, this may mean by capturing them, than, as your democracy takes off, buy them! Use dips/spies to buy everything in sight! This will provide you with none units to garrison your cities (note: I consider a none unit too valuable to waste in an offensive mode), and will make the AI cities your cities. Yes, you will have to pay double to avoid an incident, but its worth it. As long as your trading, you should have plenty of gold to buy cities. Remember, you cannot live in peace with an AI for long, so your long-range goal is to reduce all the AIs to one pet city while you build and launch your spaceship. Keep those vans moving and you will maintain your tech per turn as well as having plenty of coins. The best defense is a good offense and a spy with a few bags of coins is much more dangerous than several vet cav units.

Keep your reputation spotless, and, after an AI has sneak-attacked you 2 or 3 times, your senate will support further "peacekeeping activities" against that AI. Done properly, the only cities you should have to attack in a democracy are the AI capitals.

Regarding the OEDO trick, remember, you can switch govs as many times in one turn as you like, so, revolt, pick a fighting gov, Monarchy, Commie, or Fundy, blast the AI target cities, than, on the same turn, switch your gov back to Democracy.

From your post, it looks like you are on the right path, you are just not expanding enough, oh, and don't choke your cities with a bunch of defensive units in democracy. You only need 1 and if you don't have a none unit available, you can use a van or dip/spy in a pinch. And with a lot of cities, if your really must go on the attack, each city can provide one attack unit without choking it or causing uncontrollable unhappiness. Especially with the right wonders...!

 

[Prof. Garfield]

Another quick question: What size map do you use? A larger map usually reduces the need for troops and allows your empire to expand more, and therefore use less resources per city on defence. If you play normal or small maps, try learning democracy on a large one. Foreign civs will give you less pressure while you learn the ropes.

 

[JIM G]

Strikes me Count Duckula you're going for Democracy too early. As you have found Democracy is sheild hungry so you need to have a good 'core' of mature cities ie they have plenty of mines & forests being worked - with railroad if you have the tech. Also you'll need factories & (ideally) the hoover dam.
That takes care of production. Now to get the best out of Democracy you need to captalise on trade - make sure you have markets/banks/stock exchanges and have roads on your trade producing tiles. Spend the effort on caravans - remember they earn most when delivered to a foreign nation on another continent where the city actually demands the caravan goods - check it still does demand it though before delivery as the demands change over time!
I often find it good to 'practice' with republic before going to democracy.

 

[WildPony]

Your post is exceptionally well written but some of your points seem incomprehensible. So with respect, i will try to offer my insights.

"My cities are undefended because I can't afford to have defenders, so they are easily taken".

I'm not sure how u can't afford a minimal number of quality, veteran state of the art defenders. They cost a shield per unit, but your cities can't possibly have no shields at all, can they? Please help me to understand this.

"I try to raise a force to counterattack, but I don't have the gold/shields..."

As others have said, Trade in this game makes you rich, especially from high trade cities to foreign destinations, in demand on a separate continent. That erases the gold issue.. and with just one available shield per city, u incrementally rush the unit. if the city has ten available shields, u incrementally rush it to ten shy of the unit.

"and even when I have a minor army and try to mobilize it, my entire civ goes into anarchy"

You have to know your government. Democracy has it's fantastic pros and it's fantastically difficult cons. One extra trade arrow per square, zero corruption, an extra citizen every turn in every celebrating city.. these are some amazing positives.... 2 unhappy faces for each unit away comes with the package. In Democracy, while you are in celebration/growth mode u simply have to plan to stay inside your cities (or inside forts within 3 squares of your cities) and fight from there. You can have Monarchy, no extra trade arrow, lots of corruption, no celebration growth... but u can run wild with units outside your cities. For me, Democracy's benefits are extraordinarily well worth what u sacrifice for them. And once you are done celebrating, u can send units out on a limited basis.. but u have to step carefully out of your cities, making sure u can make the happiness right. If you are going into anarchy, you are not exiting your cities carefully, making sure the cities can withstand it. One of the guys above mentioned u can have a huge luxury rate because "super trade" will give u all the gold and science u need. I am in complete agreement with that. (another guy mentioned that u can usually do it with 40-50% lux and that too is true in most cases). But if u need 80% lux to fight the war u want without anarchy, don't be shy about clicking and dragging that bar. There is no excuse, ever to allow a city in democracy to riot. That happens only with an absense of careful planning. And if you allow your government to collapse, you are doing for careless city management what Stonehenge did for rocks.

Another gentleman above mentioned and i'll paraprase, "don't go into Democracy until you're ready". If i want to celebrate my cities, which i pretty much always want to do, in many instances i'll either await magnetism or industrialization for happy boats... or stay inside my cities until i have one of these. The tradeoff, for me seems well worth it. Sanitation by the way is a big key. I don't want size 12's when 8 turns later i can have size 20's. Is celebration growth a part of Democracy u are taking full advantage of?


"1. The Senate over-ruling my actions. Quite often I'll be 'sneak attacked' by the AI. I'll often lose a city or two and have a couple of techs stolen, and then the AI will sue for peace. The Senate forces me to accept this peace, meaning that I've lost one or two of my cities, and I don't have the chance to recoupe my losses."

It's true the senate is a burdensome annoyance. I would only say that certain cities bordering ai's need to be well defended, always in anticipation of an ai sneak attack. They live for that. Know it and prepare accordingly.

"This handicap also applies to those god damn diplomats. The AI sends diplomats to steal my knowledge, and the Senate doesn't allow me to retaliate. What a joke!"

True enough. But again, is it worth the costs to gain the benefits?

"2. Every unit requiring a support shield. This is really frustrating. If I make city defenders, I don't have enough shields to obtain upgrades. If I want upgrades, I need to ditch my defenders. No defenders means that the belligerent AI just walks into my cities with little opposition."

Again i'm not visualizing how u can have so few shields. All u need is one available shield to rush and maintain a unit. If one city can't support a unit, you can bring units from higher shield cities in. You can utilize a few well placed forts within your civ for happy movement if need be. To leave cities empty on your ai bordering cities is to beg the cpu to step in, commit the sin, and immediately ask forgiveness... which your senate will happily grant them. I'd never want to leave a city empty on an ai border. There is always a better way to handle that situation. Another consideration, front line, border grassland cities can be mined to forest or transformed to hill for fantastic defensive terrain bonuses.

"I would rush buy my upgrades, but I don't have the money. How do I get the money?"

Let's all say it together.... "TRADE" !!

"By obtaining the upgrades to increase my trade and tax income (eg. Bank, Superhighways, Airports. Paradox."

There's an expression. "Once you go black, you never go back". I'm not necessarily saying it's true, but for the sake of this point i'm making let's say it is. Trade is like that. Once you experience the power of fantastic super trade you'll never go back to thinking u need to build banks to make more gold. Banks are fine, but a trade bringing in 1000 gold and 1000 science has to be at least ten times better. Each turn i ask myself, "in this city, what is the very best thing i can build here for my civ". More times than not, i answer myself, "another trade caravan". I just learned about "nil" caravans in the past couple days. If not to support celebration growth (something that yields yet more gold and science for each trade) i'm not sure i'd ever build another bank again.

"I may be light years ahead of the AI in techs, but so what? If those techs remain 'abstract' concepts and don't materialize on the battlefield, what's the point? A civilization with 20 knights is superior to a civilization which 'could' produce a bomber."

Hehe, you are right... and i love the rich way in which u express this. You have to materialize them and super trade will make this seem so easy, you will begin to see the ai as other strong players see it. A feeble, ridiculously weak enemy that hasn't the ability to hurt you.... more of a slight nuissance than anything, like a mosquito.

"3. Unhappiness away from home. This is a joke, how can I conduct a war when my cities revolt simply because I have troops outside of a friendly city? And if you don't rectify this unhappiness within one turn, your government is overthrown. What a load of cack, the Ancient Greeks were democratic, but they didn't revolt every 2 years because their troops weren't stationed in a city."

While i'm sure this was true of the Ancient Greeks, this is the oversimplified, black and white way in which the game was designed. You just have to accept Democracy as the game has outlined it to be, however unrealistic... and within those guidelines play the strongest game u can play.

"I had the happiness wonders (Michaelangelo's, J.S Bach's, Women's Suffrage), temples and colloseums in every city, but that doesn't really help, because the 'unhappy away from home' penalty is applied afterwards."

You are right again. You need to balance three things. Your luxury rate, the number of units each city will have "away", and the other big key, your Elvis. Step outside of a city into only as much unhappiness as you can repair, never allowing a city into revolt. A certain lux rate will probably keep most cities content and certain cities will need more elvis' than others to make up the difference.

"Some players would agree and say that democracy sucks during wartime, and that you should switch to fundy/communism/monarchy if you plan an all out war."

In some situations, depending on many factors, this could indeed be the best solution. Once u need to engage in "all out war" to achieve your goals. I speak as a player who usually plays "no bribes". I'm sure an army of bribing spies/diplos can be highly effective in Democracy as well where bribes are allowed. But i have to believe in any case that crushing the enemy with Vet Armor is a lot more cost effective. When you have tons of units, it's amazing how many free shields u notice once u step into Fundamentalism.. or even Communism. Monarchy is so corrupt and primitive as compared to these 3 premium governments, i wouldn't even include it on the list. I like Democr. for super growth... Once i have already achieved that, Fundamentalism can be a truly welcome treat. Depending on the situation, ie: minding your own business and defending a hundred cities and especially if you are pre-Mobile Warfare, building tons of 20 shield Veteran Fanatics can be nice too. Communism could be nice for a period of specializing in churning out vet spies.

"I don't find that advice very practical, given that you first need to waste time overthrowing the existing govt., and then build an army from scratch while the AI ravages your civ."

I believe the aformentioned advice, for many situations to be indeed practical. If you time your revolution for the oedo year, the most u would lose is one turn. Or supremely more strategically excellent, if you let your capital go into riot 2 consecutive turns, the 2nd being into the oedo year, your civ loses trade and science in only one city for two turns... none of the other cities skip a beat.

 

[Ace]

Fighting a war in a Power Democracy with 100+ cities without bribing is easy. With J S Bach and the Cure for Cancer, you can have one unit out of each city without a riot. The trick is to rehome the combat units from your big production cities to the smaller support cities to maintain the one unit per city at the front. And, even in full blown war, remember that the main strenght of a Democracy is Trade, so maintain a flow of vans/freight to keep the coins and beakers flowing. The Beakers will keep you going on the techs, and the coins will finance your vans and combat units as well as needed infrastructure. The trick is to balance your production in order to maintain a smooth flow of new units, vans, and infrastructure. Always keep in mind the big picture, and work to achieve all your goals.

Don't ignore banks and stock exchanges, they multiply the effect of your tax and lux rates. Putting a stock exchange in a big city is almost a guarantee of celibrating next turn.

 

[Zancor Mezoran]

Yes, it is true that Democracy can be a tough horse to ride...but even without a Power Democracy, you *can* wage an efficient war and still keep your people happy and your cities producing stuff. I'm used to playing in Warlord though, so your situation is a bit (or a lot) different than mine is when I'm in Democracy, but I'll try and help anyway.

First off, your cities only need about 1 or 2 veteran units with a decent defense value, such as Mechanized Infantry or Armor, to defend them in most situations. You will also want to get City Walls in each of your cities, and maybe a Coastal Fortress if it's an important port town. That shouldn't impact your Production very much.

Second, if your taxes aren't producing enough money, then there are a number of other things you can do to increase your money flow. Using lots of Caravans/Freight is good for both immediate cash and long-term trade bonuses (which equate to more cash), but if you have serious production problems and can't RushBuy the Caravan/Freight units, then it isn't really a viable option. However, another good way to generate money is to set your cities to "construct" Capitalization; again, though, this also depends on your cities having decent production capability. I don't know how such severe production problems can come to exist, but you can take plenty of measures to increase production (building mines, building railroads on 2+ production squares, using forests, constructing Offshore Platforms, building Factories and Manufacturing Plants, etc.)

Third, about that pesky Senate.....get United Nations by any means possible, because you need it. If another civilization built it, then find out which city it is in, and do everything you can to take the city from them. With United Nations, not only will your Senate be *roughly* 50% cooperative (it varies depending on several factors), but other civilizations will be forced to offer a cease-fire (and, subsequently, a peace treaty) upon contact. That way, if a war is going badly for you, you have the power to stop it whenever you please, AND you can kick their sleezy, low-tech posteriors all the way to Alpha Centauri when you get your army back

Fourth, you can always wage a "war" with Diplomats/Spies, if you have enough money. What I like the most about Dips/Spies is that they don't need support. Although other civs can expel your Dips (I don't know if they can expel your Spies), they can't do that on your turn...and if they do expel them, you can send them back again. In addition, the Senate doesn't care about what you do with your Dips/Spies, so go ahead and plant as many nuclear devices as you'd like...maybe you can get them to declare war on you in the process.

Fifth, your people don't become unhappy in Democracy if you have your units in Fortresses or Airbases up to 3 spaces from one of your cities. Since AI cities are so close to each other, you could probably capture one of their cities and then have your units attack another enemy city from a Fortress that is adjacent to the enemy town...and within 3 spaces of the city you captured. If the fortress isn't there, you could sue for peace and then build it, and declare war again. But the AI does build a good number of Fortresses.

Sixth, other civs can't sue for peace with your naval units, air units, or (I think) your Partisans. This is especially convenient with Helicopters, because they are air units that *can* capture cities. Also, you can use Cruise Missiles and Fighter raids to take out enemy forces without your citizens becoming unhappy.

....Well, I've been typing for quite a while now, and I think there was something else I was going to suggest, but I don't remember it. I hope that this was of some sort of assistance.

 

[forkshy]

Don't use democracy until the AI is basically completely destroyed. Stick with communism or monarchy until you don't need to wage wars anymore.

I agree with what you said about tech being useless. If you aim for polytheism pretty early you should be able to destroy most of the AI civs before they get off the ground. I can't even remember the last time (on diety) that i've been in a war that required any unit more advanced than a dragoon.

A lot of posters seem to bang away on the 'expansion' drum, and i agree with them for the most part, but equally important to expansion is exploration.

Find your enemies quickly and crush them as fast as possible.

Keep pushing at the borders of the revealed map. Move your troops in strait lines out from the center.

 

[Agent327]

The general trend of my game is that once I get democracy, I blaze ahead of the AI in regards to techs. Then the AI gets all pissy. I appease it, it still sneak attacks and takes my cities.

The first is quite normal, the second just indicates you have poor defenses.

Several components of democracy really cripple me:

1. The Senate over-ruling my actions. Quite often I'll be 'sneak attacked' by the AI. I'll often lose a city or two and have a couple of techs stolen, and then the AI will sue for peace. The Senate forces me to accept this peace, meaning that I've lost one or two of my cities, and I don't have the chance to recoupe my losses.

This handicap also applies to those god damn diplomats. The AI sends diplomats to steal my knowledge, and the Senate doesn't allow me to retaliate. What a joke!

While Democracy is the best govt to get ahead, you must ALWAYS be ready to switch to a more aggressive govt. in case of war. (The Statue of Liberty is a definite perk for this.)
First, once you have Communism, switch for as long as it takes to have at least 1 Veteran Spy in every one of your cities.
Second, if an AI civ really pisses you off, switch to Fundamentalism - if you have a tech lead! - and only stop when you've gotten your revenge. (Also, switching to Fundamentalism with a sufficient tech lead should basically be sufficient to annihilate any remaining competition.)

2. Every unit requiring a support shield. This is really frustrating. If I make city defenders, I don't have enough shields to obtain upgrades. If I want upgrades, I need to ditch my defenders. No defenders means that the belligerent AI just walks into my cities with little opposition.
3. Unhappiness away from home. This is a joke, how can I conduct a war when my cities revolt simply because I have troops outside of a friendly city? And if you don't rectify this unhappiness within one turn, your government is overthrown. What a load of cack, the Ancient Greeks were democratic, but they didn't revolt every 2 years because their troops weren't stationed in a city. ...

Again, this is normal for Democracy - as is a Luxury rate of 40%. (Also, ancient Greek democracy doesn't really compare to Civ's version, although the unhappiness - because of away from home - would certainly occur; there's a classic play about it.)
If you can't afford Democracy (or feel you can't), just don't switch. It's perfect around 1000 AD (or thereabouts) or any sooner your civ is big enough to take on Democracy.
Personally I usually switch to it when Monarchy/Communism is starting to slow down research. (Haven't really had problems with that, but then I never neglect defense and make sure I can pop out a strike force - and switch govts - if need be. Otherwise, indeed, Democacy isn't worth it. You might try Republic as an in-between, but I usually skip that, because of the corruption rates.)

 

[WildPony]

A revision to my previous answer:

Count Duk: "I had the happiness wonders (Michaelangelo's, J.S Bach's, Women's Suffrage), temples and colloseums in every city, but that doesn't really help, because the 'unhappy away from home' penalty is applied afterwards."

Wild Pony, orig answer: "You are right again. You need to balance three things. Your luxury rate, the number of units each city will have "away", and the other big key, your Elvis. Step outside of a city into only as much unhappiness as you can repair, never allowing a city into revolt. A certain lux rate will probably keep most cities content and certain cities will need more elvis' than others to make up the difference."

My previous answer had been too quick and overgeneralized. While it's true that Mikes (Cathedrals), HG, Colosseums and Temples don't help with "units away", Womens sufferage certainly does (or Police Stations) as this is precisely what they were designed to do... eliminating one red shield (out of 2 in Democracy) for every unit away. Womens allows me (and others) to stay in Democracy in the midst of full scale war and with the help of the right lux rate and varying numbers of elvis' per city, to send out nearly unlimited units. Ten units away in a city will be accompanied by only ten red shields instead of 20, generally making all the difference.

Bachs, also applied after the units away unhappiness, takes away 2 red shields total per city.

 

[countduckula]

So I've started a new game. I have made several variations to my playing style, including:

- Building far more cities. I still don't overlap my city domains because I consider it wasteful, although I can understand why people would do so in order to gain a stronger opening game.

- Thinking more carefully about which city upgrades to purchase. I no longer purchase city upgrades willy-nillly, I think things through first. I only recently made the realisation that purchasing city upgrades which have a negligible effect is very hurtful, as it wastes both time and money.

- Not being so devoted to building wonders. Instead of slowing the growth of my empire in order to obtain a wonder, I prioritise.

- Only laying down roads when it is necessary to increase trade in a city square, and only irrigating when needed for city growth.

As things stand, it's about 1200AD and I'm richer and better teched than all the other AI's. I've just switched to democracy and things are running pretty smoothly since I have most of the happiness wonders, as well as happiness buildings (when necessary) and a reasonable luxuries rate.

I have a few questions to ask about general gameplay, though:

- My empire radiates outwards, with the cities on the frontiers producing settlers who then build cities on unoccupied land. The question is: What should your cities in the centre of your empire produce once they have produced an ample number of settlers to upgrade the land, and trade caravans?

- How do you deal with stacked enemy units? You can't bribe stacks.

- What angle of attack do you take against an enemy capital city? Once again, you can't bribe capital cities due to the palace effect.

- How many defenders do you place in each town? What factors make you decide whether you build a city wall? I'm guessing that towns on the frontier, and barbarian hotspots, would receive a city wall.

- Trade caravans are *unbearably slow*. It may take centuries for a caravan to reach its destination, and sometimes they are lost due to attack, or the demands of the target city change. Is there any way to mitigate this?

- Is it worth sending trade caravans to your own cities, or should you only send them to cities of other civ's?

- Do you link your cities with roads and railroads, or only lay down roads when trade is increased in a city square by doing so?

 

[Prof. Garfield]

My empire radiates outwards, with the cities on the frontiers producing settlers who then build cities on unoccupied land. The question is: What should your cities in the centre of your empire produce once they have produced an ample number of settlers to upgrade the land, and trade caravans?

There are a number of options. They can build food caravans to stockpile for future wonders. If they are on the coast, they can build ships to increase your merchant marine. They can build military units you might need for outposts that are in potential (but not immediate) danger. They can build an expeditionary force to attack someone with. They can build city improvements that will increase their potential to grow. More settlers are always an option if the city can support them; you can't have too many of them.

How do you deal with stacked enemy units? You can't bribe stacks.

Attack them, or wait for them to unstack. Diplomats are not perfect substitutes for military forces; you will need to build (or rush) troops at some point. Bribing allows a more flexible "deployment" of your resources. Military units are useful only where they are, but coins can be spent anywhere.

I've got to go. I'll write more later, if others don't get here first.

 

[Terrapin]

I have a few questions to ask about general gameplay, though:

- My empire radiates outwards, with the cities on the frontiers producing settlers who then build cities on unoccupied land. The question is: What should your cities in the centre of your empire produce once they have produced an ample number of settlers to upgrade the land, and trade caravans?

- How do you deal with stacked enemy units? You can't bribe stacks.

- What angle of attack do you take against an enemy capital city? Once again, you can't bribe capital cities due to the palace effect.

- How many defenders do you place in each town? What factors make you decide whether you build a city wall? I'm guessing that towns on the frontier, and barbarian hotspots, would receive a city wall.

- Trade caravans are *unbearably slow*. It may take centuries for a caravan to reach its destination, and sometimes they are lost due to attack, or the demands of the target city change. Is there any way to mitigate this?

- Is it worth sending trade caravans to your own cities, or should you only send them to cities of other civ's?

- Do you link your cities with roads and railroads, or only lay down roads when trade is increased in a city square by doing so?

In order (and my answers are far from absolute):

-More trade caravans. If nothing else, make food caravans for use in building future wonders and/or spaceship parts. Also, since your core cities are probably your biggest, you can use the "Wonderbread Trick" to unblock their trade commodities so they can keep trading.

- I usually create one or more attacking units which can go out and kill anything which I cannot bribe or make peace with. If you have Shakespeare's Theater you can support the attacker from that city without incident. If you have JS Bach's Cathedral you can take one unit out of any city without happiness consequences. You could build a fort in the path of the enemy stack and within three squares of a city and put a couple of defenders there. If you are concerned with support costs, you could just disband any military units you create. Any of these steps are only worthwhile if you are if the stack in question poses a real risk to your cities.

- Either use a dip/spy to destroy the city walls and then attack with units supported from your Shakes city or wait until you have Howies and do the same.

- 0 or 1 defender. No city walls, ever. A favorite tactic with Barbs is to bribe one or to with dips/spies and have those kill the others and capture the leader, if possible. If the bribed units cause happiness problems, disband them or move them into your city.

- There are two solutions to your dilemma. One is to build a road/railroad link to the civ or civs you wish to trade with. Remember to have a garrison of some kind along the road (or especially railroad) so your trading partner cannot have an army show up on your doorstep. The other, more flexible and elegant solution, is the ship chain. Line your ships up one move apart from your most convenient port to your trade partner. Put you 'vans in sleep mode and have them leave aboard the first ship. It moves onto the space where the second ship awaits (it can expend its full movement getting there). Click on the space where the two ships are. You will get the "select a unit" dialog box showing the two ships and the sleeping 'vans. Select all the 'vans and then the ship which has not yet moved and start moving it. The 'vans will now stay with the new ship. Lather, rinse, repeat until you reach your destination. Your 'vans can now move to their destination city in one turn. You will need a second turn to put each ship back in its starting position.

- Early in the game, trading among your own cities is well worthwhile. In particular, you want all of your lesser cities to send caravans to you SSC or your biggest, best trading city if you are not using an SSC. NEVER NEVER NEVER send a caravan from your SSC to a domestic city. By hook or by crook, get them to foreign ports, even early in the game when it takes a long time. Later in the game, when you have your ship chains set up, ship everything to far away foreign ports, even if it is not demanded.

- My first couple of roaded squares in each city are strictly to get a trade arrow out of that square. If possible, I make it a square which is on the way to another city. A common tactic for this is to have a settler plop down a single road on a shielded grassland square on his way to settle a new city. Once I start researching Trade I like to assign a settler or two to build roads linking my cities. The first priority is to get roads from all cities back to the SSC (for the aforementioned domestic trade routes and, of course, for sending 'vans to get needed Wonders built in the SSC). Where possible, I put the roads on shielded grassland (with plains and unshielded grassland being my next choices). I go around forests, hills, swamps and mountains if possible without making my road too long. Once my core cities have roadways leading to the SSC, I complete my road web. At all times, I prioritize building roads on grassland/plains squares which my citizens will actually be working, with an eye toward putting them in spots where they will become part of my road web, not useless spurs. Once Railroad appears in my list of research options, I start roading forests and mining and roading hills in anticipation of building railroads to increase shield production. Because the Democracy style of play is based on trade and money rather than shield production, I always make road/railroad building a lower priority than building roads on flatland in order to get trade. Once I have railroad, I start putting railroads down linking my cities together, running them over 2+ shield producing squares where possible. Once your have a rail net and ship chains set up, you can ship your 'vans (by this time freights) to their destinations the same turn they are built.

 

[WildPony]

"Thinking more carefully about which city upgrades to purchase. I no longer purchase city upgrades willy-nillly, I think things through first. I only recently made the realisation that purchasing city upgrades which have a negligible effect is very hurtful, as it wastes both time and money."

Excellent. You are beginning to think like a master Everything u build in every city should always be the most highly optimal, unit, wonder or building.... either immediately useful such as a settler or exploring unit, or an investment in the near future such as trade caravans or a wonder (or wonder caravans). In optimal civ play, most buildings in most instances should wait until much later.

"Not being so devoted to building wonders. Instead of slowing the growth of my empire in order to obtain a wonder, I prioritise."

Usually vs. the ai, if you build perhaps 20-30 fast cities, then get trade, you can build every wonder you want with caravans, without having squandered your earliest opportunity for quick exponential growth.

"Only laying down roads when it is necessary to increase trade in a city square, and only irrigating when needed for city growth."

Excellent too, though i feel roads are useful for motility as well. As well i often find it useful to take two steps towards my destination (along roads or rivers) and hit "i" along the way. The settler himself stores the work, not the square. Before u build another frontier city, a core settler could irrigate a square or two before reaching the outskirts. In case you didn't know, click on / click off settler action doubles the speed of the work.

"As things stand, it's about 1200AD and I'm richer and better teched than all the other AI's. I've just switched to democracy and things are running pretty smoothly since I have most of the happiness wonders, as well as happiness buildings (when necessary) and a reasonable luxuries rate."

It's nice to be able to objectively see improvement in our game. Also good to see that you've overcome your challenges with Democracy .


"My empire radiates outwards, with the cities on the frontiers producing settlers who then build cities on unoccupied land. The question is: What should your cities in the centre of your empire produce once they have produced an ample number of settlers to upgrade the land, and trade caravans?"

Prof. Garfield has good ideas. Also it depends so much on your situation and your game plan. In strong trade cities, caravans are always nice, with the right balance of boats to get them where they are going. If you plan to bribe, dips are nice. If you plan to kill and even if you don't a barracks and vet military production is nice, particularly in cities that are not well suited for trade. The units can be sent out to appropriate strategic locations. In certain celebratable super trade cities, this might be the time for aquaducts/sewers and other buildings that might be needed to sustain super growth.

"How do you deal with stacked enemy units? You can't bribe stacks."

If they're in mountain fort, you welcome them as your new neighbors, maybe bring them a fruit basket

"What angle of attack do you take against an enemy capital city? Once again, you can't bribe capital cities due to the palace effect."

I would estimate or assess what's inside, then likely sabotage city walls before attacking with my quality veteran units.

"How many defenders do you place in each town? What factors make you decide whether you build a city wall? I'm guessing that towns on the frontier, and barbarian hotspots, would receive a city wall."

Most of my cities would have zero. Border towns and other precarious areas would have the minimum i felt necessary depending upon the enemy's capabilities and the terrain of my city. This could be one vet defender or 5. In some situations it might be one or more vet catapults that can take out anything that approaches. I might build a couple well placed forts before entertaining the idea of walls.

"Trade caravans are *unbearably slow*. It may take centuries for a caravan to reach its destination, and sometimes they are lost due to attack, or the demands of the target city change. Is there any way to mitigate this?"

My caravans are boatlifted towards their ideal destination (i'm not much for same land trading). If the demand disappears in the original target, i re-evaluate the destination, but it will still be foreign and separate land... and will still be demanded if possible. If all reachable cities do not demand my commodity, i will likely send it undemanded to the best foreign trade city i can find. If the seas are hostile, i will try to trade in less precarious seas, and/or escort my trades with as formidible a contingency of gun ships as necessary.

"Is it worth sending trade caravans to your own cities, or should you only send them to cities of other civ's?"

Every situation is different. Some games depending on a lot of factors, i would trade to myself if it's demanded and on a separate land.

 

[ummmm........]

In case you didn't know, click on / click off settler action doubles the speed of the work.

It's been a long while since I've had the opportunity to sit down and play some CivII, and I was by no means an expert even back when I used to play regularly.

So it's perhaps not too surprising that I don't understand what's being said in the quoted sentence.

Could someone explain? I love learning new tricks