Demographics Analysis

[Irgy]

I make no promise to do this every turn, but I've done it this turn. May not need much analysis for a while as little is expected to change for a few turns at least, but worth keeping an eye out for changes.

Spoiler :

So, the starts are certainly not identical. However, everyone has a coastal start, with either 6 or 7 land tiles in the inner ring.

We are the only team to be working a plains-forest-hill (we know this from the food). From the best worst and average manufactured goods, the only solution is that exactly one other team getting 4 hammers, which must be a plains forest and settled on a plains hill, while all other teams are getting 2 hammers. At least one of those is on a plains hill working a 3 food tile, so either flood plains or oasis.

Our GNP is higher because of creative. I actually can't figure out how one team manages to have 20. A 3 commerce tile plus 16 free capital commerce is only 19, where's the other 1 from? If they're financial and settled on river-wine and working a 3 commerce tile then that's 21, I can't get it to come out to 20. Other than that, we're third, which means commerce is one of:
20-19-(18)-16-16-16
20-18-(18)-17-16-16
20-18-(18)-16-16-16

Odds are (in my opinion) the high commerce civs are financial civs that didn't start with fishing, trying to get fishing and head for a workboat.

Soldiers, life expectancy and approval ratings just tells us what we know already about traits and starting techs.

Scores tell us everyone settled in place. I assume most of the starts were set up to be decent with the spot you're given - chasing a better start location is something for random maps really.

 

[azzaman333]

GNP includes actual beakers into the tech, with discounts. So 20 GNP means they're probably researching BW/AH.

 

[Irgy]

GNP includes actual beakers into the tech, with discounts. So 20 GNP means they're probably researching BW/AH.

Bronze only has one pre-req, but animal handling would work. There is exactly one team with both pre-reqs for animal handling, and a strong motivation to research it early: Amazons. I expect then that they're settled on a plains hill and working an oasis.

 

[azzaman333]

Bronze only has one pre-req, but animal handling would work. There is exactly one team with both pre-reqs for animal handling, and a strong motivation to research it early: Amazons. I expect then that they're settled on a plains hill and working an oasis.

They don't have to be working an Oasis. In the Test Pitboss game, my GNP was 20 working with 10 beakers (9 worked + 1 free), 2 culture, 4 EP. (or about that). With the 20% discount from having optional pre-reqs, that works out to be 14 beakers, making the GNP 14+2+4=20.

 

[Irgy]

They don't have to be working an Oasis. In the Test Pitboss game, my GNP was 20 working with 10 beakers (9 worked + 1 free), 2 culture, 4 EP. (or about that). With the 20% discount from having optional pre-reqs, that works out to be 14 beakers, making the GNP 14+2+4=20.

? A 20% bonus on 10 should come out to 12, not 14, surely. Unless the bonus is actually 40%? It would have to be 40% above and beyond what everyone else is getting already.

The tech bonuses are a weak for me point I must admit, I've never managed to get the beakers reported by the slider to justify the beakers actually added to the tech each turn.

 

[champinoman]

Using the Amazons as the example the beaker conversion would be:

beaker base * ( 1 + 0.2 * mandatory tech + 0.2 * optional prereq ) = actual beakers

therefore with agg and hunting:

10 * ( 1 + 0.2 * 1 + 0.2 * 1 ) = 14 beakers

 

[azzaman333]

It's actually only a 20% increase per optional prereqs (those with arrows pointing to the tech on the tech tree). Mandatory prereqs, eg Optics and Calendar for Astronomy, don't give any bonuses.

 

[pindicator]

It's actually only a 20% increase per optional prereqs (those with arrows pointing to the tech on the tech tree). Mandatory prereqs, eg Optics and Calendar for Astronomy, don't give any bonuses.

Isn't it also a 20% bonus for having the minimum requirements for the tech? For example, with pottery you would get a 20% bonus to having Wheel & Agriculture OR Wheel & Fishing. Then you would get an additional 20% (40% total) if you had Wheel, Ag, & Fishing.

 

[champinoman]

It's actually only a 20% increase per optional prereqs (those with arrows pointing to the tech on the tech tree). Mandatory prereqs, eg Optics and Calendar for Astronomy, don't give any bonuses.

Mandatory prereqs do give a bonus. I should explain that its not a bonus per mandatory tech but instead a bonus of 20% once all mandatory techs are known.

This is important because all your starting techs (Mining, Agg, Fishing, wheel, myst and hunting) do not get this 20% bonus for mandatory prereqs because they dont have any.

For clarity, optional prereqs are additional bonus of 20% per optional prereq.

EDIT: Not sure how I missed pindicator's post, but its exactly correct.

 

[Lord Parkin]

GNP includes actual beakers into the tech, with discounts. So 20 GNP means they're probably researching BW/AH.

Exactly. The low beaker ones are probably the ones researching tier-one techs with no bonuses... i.e. probably Fishing, if their starts are anything like ours and they don't have it.

 

[azzaman333]

Isn't it also a 20% bonus for having the minimum requirements for the tech? For example, with pottery you would get a 20% bonus to having Wheel & Agriculture OR Wheel & Fishing. Then you would get an additional 20% (40% total) if you had Wheel, Ag, & Fishing.

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that when researching, say, Astronomy, you don't get any bonuses.

With Pottery, you're getting a +20% bonuses for Agriculture and Fishing. You don't get any bonus for the non-optional pre-req Wheel.

That's my understanding at least.

 

[Lord Parkin]

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that when researching, say, Astronomy, you don't get any bonuses.

With Pottery, you're getting a +20% bonuses for Agriculture and Fishing. You don't get any bonus for the non-optional pre-req Wheel.

That's my understanding at least.

That's what I thought too, but I may be wrong. Have to double-check that at some point.

 

[champinoman]

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that when researching, say, Astronomy, you don't get any bonuses.

With Pottery, you're getting a +20% bonuses for Agriculture and Fishing. You don't get any bonus for the non-optional pre-req Wheel.

Your right. I just did a test game and Astronomy received no bonuses.

So now I'm confused. So is it:

If the mandatory tech is not linked via an arrow in the tech tree (meaning a small icon) then there is no bonuses applied from this tech. And for every tech you know thats connected via an arrow you get 20% bonus?

That seems to apply right.

 

[azzaman333]

Your right. I just did a test game and Astronomy received no bonuses.

So now I'm confused. So is it:

If the mandatory tech is not linked via an arrow in the tech tree (meaning a small icon) then there is no bonuses applied from this tech. And for every tech you know thats connected via an arrow you get 20% bonus?

That seems to apply right.

Yep, that's it.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Your right. I just did a test game and Astronomy received no bonuses.

So now I'm confused. So is it:

If the mandatory tech is not linked via an arrow in the tech tree (meaning a small icon) then there is no bonuses applied from this tech. And for every tech you know thats connected via an arrow you get 20% bonus?

That seems to apply right.

Yeah, that's the way I thought it worked.

 

[HUSch]

GNP =20 is from 4 and 16, or 2 and 18. As there is no other crea, it's 2 +18
18 = 1.2 * 15 or 1.4 * 13
15 is not so possible, but 1.4 * 13 is possible
Cyrus research AH with 12
The problem remains, how do they get 12 , they aren't fin, so a city tile with 2 and the other with the same;

 

[pindicator]

Assuming we all have similar capital city locations... you don't suppose they settled on a gold tile?

 

[Irgy]

HUSch - 20 is from 2 culture, 4 espionage, and 14 beakers, not the breakdown you suggest. 14 beakers is 1.4 x 10, which mean's they're probably simply working either a floodplain or a forested calendar resource similar to our silk. No-one is crazy enough to settle on gold surely.

 

[AlphaShard]

The AI does.

 

[Lord Parkin]

Everyone settled on the first turn though, so unless the Gold was on a flatland tile (which it never is on a regular map) then nobody could have settled on Gold unless the mapmaker put their Settler on a Gold resource. And somehow I don't think he would have done that.