Departamento da Administração Interna

[oyzar]

Those numbers seems to be before prereqmods, which means we can wait a turn with starting GA(1K which we will have invested into lib after this turn + 1.1K next turn = enough for lib(2093 needed)), if SANCTA pops a GS we just start GA and beat them to lib, if they don't pop a GS, we just chill and beat them to lib anyways.

 

[oyzar]

The fact that we can get lib in 2 with just one turn of GA makes me wonder if we can get lib in 2 turns without going GA (and using the GE on lib). If anyone would be willing to calc that, it would be nice...

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

We can't... we are short of 223 beakers I think... I let you check that number... (I did 2093-[481+1.2*2*579 ])

 

[oyzar]

We can do about 593 BPT. 2093-418-1.2*594*2=251. So we are 251 beakers short. As such we can't get it without a GA. The question then becomes. Can we get it in 2 turns with just one turn of GA, if so what do we have to do this turn for that? How much would it cost us to delay GA by one turn (and potentially not have to waste the GE at all)?

 

[ZPV]

Well, my figure of 923bpt is after pre-req mods. It's 769 before. So we can't get lib in 2t with just one turn of GA

 

[oyzar]

oh damn, so we need to start the GA now if we want to make it in time then..

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

chat with Indiansmoke and Renata:

Spoiler :

Indiansmoke dit :
hello
Raskolnikov dit :
hi
Raskolnikov dit :
Oyzar just left...
Indiansmoke dit :
ok
Indiansmoke dit :
have you decided about golden age?
Raskolnikov dit :
it appears our calculations were maybe too much optimistic
Raskolnikov dit :
perhaps we have to start it THIS turn to beat SANCTA

Renata a rejoint la conversation.

Indiansmoke dit :
start golden age?
Raskolnikov dit :
yeah
Indiansmoke dit :
it seems so
Renata dit :
hi, this is Renata
Indiansmoke dit :
but even with GA you might lose it
Indiansmoke dit :
hi Renata
Raskolnikov dit :
hum
Raskolnikov dit :
what makes you say that?
Renata dit :
oyzar's not around?
Indiansmoke dit :
If tehy haev the scientist still they will get it in 1
Raskolnikov dit :
we can have it in 2 turns
Raskolnikov dit :
no Renata...
Raskolnikov dit :
he just left
Renata dit :
ok
Raskolnikov dit :
ouch, one turn is problematic indeed
Indiansmoke dit :
y
Indiansmoke dit :
but they might have used scientist on education
Raskolnikov dit :
is it possible that Oyzar have done a mistake???
Raskolnikov dit :
they did
Indiansmoke dit :
If the used scientist on Education then they have already started liberialism this turn
Indiansmoke dit :
If they used him now that is
Raskolnikov dit :
they can finish it in 1 turn?
Indiansmoke dit :
no
Indiansmoke dit :
only bulb
Renata dit :
they would have to get another scientist next turn then, correct?
Renata dit :
they don't have one now?
Raskolnikov dit :
yeah
Indiansmoke dit :
Anyway using the eng is the only chance to get Liberialism
Raskolnikov dit :
yeah
Raskolnikov dit :
but we need to know if it is even usefull
Raskolnikov dit :
we won't use it this way if it's to be beaten at this race
Indiansmoke dit :
ya but you don't know do you?
Raskolnikov dit :
I thought we knew
Raskolnikov dit :

Indiansmoke dit :
Ok then you will use him this turn?
Raskolnikov dit :
but Oyzar handled all this thinking, I am back from vacations (like Kaleb), so I might ommit some stuffs
Raskolnikov dit :
it's what is currently planned yes
Indiansmoke dit :
ok
Indiansmoke dit :
so what are you getting nationalism?
Indiansmoke dit :
I dought we can have optics in 2
Raskolnikov dit :
hum that needs me to check the forum...
Raskolnikov dit :
Nancy?
Raskolnikov dit :
an idea?
Renata dit :
i've beenout of the loop thelast couple of days too due to frustration over ... stuff, so i don't know
Renata dit :
i know nationalism has been discussed
Indiansmoke dit :
Ok lets see if we get optics in 2..i dought but have to test
Renata dit :
ok
Raskolnikov dit :
yeah
Raskolnikov dit :
nationalism seems the most likely
Raskolnikov dit :
we'll keep you informed if that change
Indiansmoke dit :
y
Raskolnikov dit :
if you can't have optic in 2, whill you still do it?
Indiansmoke dit :
yes
Raskolnikov dit :
(you perhaps told that to Oyz already, sorry if it's the case)
Raskolnikov dit :
ok
Indiansmoke dit :
we need caravels
Raskolnikov dit :
got that
Indiansmoke dit :
and are hoping that with the golden age you wil get from Taj you will be able to make some carracks and some units for us
Raskolnikov dit :
that's the plan
Raskolnikov dit :
for SANCTA might be more accurate
Renata dit :
lol
Indiansmoke dit :
for Sancta?
Renata dit :
we keep amusing ourselves wondering what memphus will think when a few carracks show up offshore
Indiansmoke dit :
ah yes
Indiansmoke dit :
lol
Raskolnikov dit :
don't be afraid
Raskolnikov dit :
to smack SANCTA
Indiansmoke dit :
got it
Indiansmoke dit :
I am not afraid lol
Renata dit :
it'll benefit us to keep them guessing where we're headed
Indiansmoke dit :
why should I ?
Raskolnikov dit :
indeed
Raskolnikov dit :
no reason
Indiansmoke dit :
BTW Sancta have a few HA's now
Indiansmoke dit :
next turn we will have nice screen with the spy, and more accurate info on the numbers
Raskolnikov dit :
nice!
Raskolnikov dit :
can't wait to see taht
Indiansmoke dit :
I assume you have a couple of spears or longbows at the front city
Indiansmoke dit :
and not just warriors
Indiansmoke dit :
just in case
Raskolnikov dit :
Oyzar is our TP you know...
Raskolnikov dit :
but yeah
Raskolnikov dit :
we are increasing our military presence
Indiansmoke dit :
Just tell him to be abit carefull with that front city
Renata dit :
longbows, i think, not sure about spears
Indiansmoke dit :
Longbows are fine
Renata dit :
ZPV will be taking over as TP in a few turns

@Oyzar: I hope I was better than last night
I cut some unrelated stuffs in the end
Cheers

 

[ZPV]

Well, indiansmoke is just plain wrong. Sancta can't research Liberalism in 1t next turn without a lightbulb, and they can't do that without already having a GS - we are sure they used the last one on Educ, right?

So if we research Lib in 2t with a GA (which I think we should do), we are sure to get it

 

[oyzar]

We are pretty sure they used the GS on edu, they now have 222 gold. Saturn is making 148 max. At "full" research they were still 3 turns away from edu... They can't have started Lib because they don't have philo yet.

Nationalism is not particularly hot without a GE to burn on Taj.

Getting astro which is 700 beakers more expensive might be better as it together with chem soon means we can really put pressure on sancta's coast(so they have to research astro to obsolete colossus).

 

[Unconquered Sun]

Astro is mandatory, once we have it SANCTA have no choice but to follow.

I'm not sure about Optics in 2 turns though. Do Kaz have Compass?

 

[oyzar]

They would have to do compass in 1 and optics in 1. I belive they started on compass this turn, but still sounds implausible. They do get 12% civknow mods on compass though.

 

[Unconquered Sun]

SANCTA got Lib -> Nat. Moreover, the way turn events are listed appears to indicate SANCTA did not need the GP born this turn at Inner Sanctum (a GS).

Also, Saturn can destroy our border city next turn.

 

[ZPV]

Also, Saturn can destroy our border city next turn.

We can prevent that, by placing a worker on the only open tile between their Immortal and our city. That way, they can't attack a second time with that unit, and therefore can't capture the city. We want to improve that tile anyway, so I expect to do that this turn.

 

[ZPV]

Here are my thoughts on the game:

What do we want to get from a stint in Caste+Pacifism?
Great Scientists, to lightbulb Chem+Astro.
A Great Prophet, to build a shrine.
A Great Artist?

I propose to use a short stint in Caste+Pac to pop some GPs very quickly via starvation, while mimising the time we can't use Slavery.

We don't want to revolt right away, because of the possible threat against our border city with Saturn (Porta Estralas)

We can use the unpolluted gene pools of Paraiso and Cimera to generate the first two GPs (GS), losing 5 population total if we start starving at size 12 (first turn of max specialists doesn't kill a pop due to food in the box). Ohlo, where I plan to build NE immediately, can the generate another GSomething, and get a large chunk of the next GP done, before we have to revolt back to Slavery and Theology at the end of the golden age.

My general priorities aside from this will be building Barracks and Forges, and growing population as much as feasible. The new cities will be farmed, using the available workers to speed development as much as possible - they are there to be whipped.

This turn, I will put some beakers into PP, and will then go back to generating gold. The beakers in PP should be just enough to allow us to research it mid-turn with a lightbulb, gaining the extra coins from villages that turn.

I will hold off for a short while, but since the timer is low, if I don't hear much soon, I'll have to go ahead, and we can make changes next turn if there is a better plan.

 

[oyzar]

Getting 2 scientists through starving and a 3rd from ohlo(without starving) sounds good.

 

[slaze]

So we'll be revolting to caste/pac once NE is done?

Getting 2 scientists through starving and a 3rd from ohlo(without starving) sounds good.

Where are these coming from? all from Ohlo?

What's our research plans after PP? If we have alot of surplus beakers after PP it might be better to pour them into a tech with a lesser prereq bonus (like gunpowder or something), even if for a turn (possible at 0% science) and come back to it later.

What are we doing with this golden age? I didn't have a single GP running. And it kills me to be working non-riverside grass farms even though its what we need in the smaller cities.

Not quite the clearest transition, all and any input appreciated

 

[oyzar]

No the other scientists are comming from paraiso and cimera, they can run full set of scientists(13 and 12 i belive) to generate GS very fast. They will lose some pop(5 ZPV said), but getting GS is worth losing some pop over...

 

[slaze]

Well, last i remember the NE looked to be completed with plenty of overflow, meaning it will be completed the same turn with OR or without. Maybe we revolt to caste/pac this turn and get started on those GS now?

 

[oyzar]

If that is what you calculate then go for it. That said remember that NE counts for GPP the turn it is constructed so if you revolt on the turn before it is done then start moving mines to scientists they will count for GPP with full multiplier (pac, NE and GA).

 

[slaze]

Spoiler :

Calculations have a size 12 city w/ at least 22 food (of which we'll have 2 in two turns, 1 right now) able to hit 300GPP in 3 turns losing 1 pop and 400GPP in 4 turns losing 2 pop. So it won't be a problem to wait, and use the caste/pac swith for the end of our GA. The thing I forget though, is whether the turns in between allowed civics changes is 4 or 5 turns. If it's 5 i think we switch in 2 turns with 6 GA turns left showing and then in five turns have the switch into theocracy or whatever. That'll be enough time to get the two GS popped and i haven't don'e calcs but I'd imagine the thrid one in Ohlo wouldn't be too far behind.

But for Paraiso and Cimeria, how do we get the GS to pop in the city we want if both of them will his the 300GPP on the same turn? I'd rather have the first one pop in Cimeria as Paraiso shares more BFC with other cities. I ran a scientist in Cimeria thinking maybe having more GPP is the anwser but that was also to have sombra steal a FP to grow in 2 instead of 3 turns.

Are we looking to revolt into military civics (Vass/Theo) at the end of our GA? Theology is unreseached by anyone (like we need another holy city). I see our tech line as being compass>optics>bulb Astro w/ two GS>Gunpowder>bulb some of Chem>Steel. Should we slip theo somewhere in there?

To give an idea of our tech, we are 40% +14, +204@0%, -273@100%. We have just over 600 and are unable to research anything past optics till our 2nd GS comes in. under current GA rates, steel is 7 turns @ 100% but chem prereq (unaccounted for???) could mean more like 5.8 turns. Gunpowder is currently 2.7 turns@100%. So we'll probably get steel maybe like 2-6 turns after golden age and like 2-3 turn later with theo slipped in. I'd prolly lean towards slipping theo in.

By the way, MS just gifted us a GS, am I supposed to gift them PP. And both them and kaz have Compass which would be lovely to get instead of researching.

I also expect us to lose the circumnavigation as santca got optics last turn. If given compass we could probably get optics in 1 turn and whip in colina (which we would need to get compass like now cause we'll be switching to caste in about 2 turns anyway. I believe sancta is in caste right now anyway so maybe a whip could be them but it looks like they'd have a 2-3 turn head start. But i'd need compass offered to me next turn to have a shot.

Both serpente and cimeria finished thier buildings (uni and forge?). i was thinking a barracks for each (both 2 turns) and then units.

And then there's the Husch message about the desert. looks fine to me.