Department of Turnplay

[killercane]

Do we really want to research Monotheism right now or build up some more gold? I say this because we nor Babe need Chivalry or Theology, so 1000 extra gold is nice to have lying around.

 

[markh]

We cant build em past golden age, and we cant delay Feudalism (need that whip).

Of course I see the point that we need Feud, but why can't we build them past golden age ? We can build them as long as we do not have researched Feud. Is there any connection between our golden age and Feud that I do not get ? We could connect the iron now and upgrade some warriors to gallics and disconnect the iron again for building warriors for upgrade to MDIs. However the question will be how many gallics would we need ?

 

[Daghdha]

I just got two very annoyed pm's from Wotan and Whomp. They're frustrated over our consideration not to build GLib and go full speed on Mono. They have delivered techs nicely and want something for it and I don't think we can afford loosing them. Whatever we decide it's important they feel comfy with it. Yes, we will lose some "bang for the buck" by going Mono full speed but they want Chiv badly to go whack some and will prolly feel cheated if we deny them that. My suggestion is build GLib, go Mono asap so they can have the knights, then we can slow down some to maybe get an extra tech or two from the GLib and build some cash. We must come to an understanding with Babes on this and I'd rather lose some gold than lose our best/only alliance.

 

[jb1964]

I would like to see both us and the Babes stock piling gold while we make the run for the GLib and have them attack Sabre. The FC axis has no real shot at hitting the Babes until Astro so there little fear for a counter. Or to put it another way, there will never be another time in this game when the odds are more in their favor. Anyway, back to tech-talk... if we do miss out on the GLib then the stockpiled gold can be used to accelerate our tech pace on techs that are now less expensive.

They're scared that if we stand still that something bad will happen.

The Babes are coming across as very risk adverse on both the tech and military front.

 

[jb1964]

I just got two very annoyed pm's from Wotan and Whomp. They're frustrated over our consideration not to build GLib and go full speed on Mono. They have delivered techs nicely and want something for it and I don't think we can afford loosing them. Whatever we decide it's important they feel comfy with it. Yes, we will lose some "bang for the buck" by going Mono full speed but they want Chiv badly to go whack some and will prolly feel cheated if we deny them that. My suggestion is build GLib, go Mono asap so they can have the knights, then we can slow down some to maybe get an extra tech or two from the GLib and build some cash. We must come to an understanding with Babes on this and I'd rather lose some gold than lose our best/only alliance.

I didn't catch where we were thinking of not building the GLib. I agree w/ Daghdah and say we get Mono, give it the Babes and then go zero tech.

The sooner the put Chivalry into the hands of the Babes the quicker they start eliminating the competition.

And if we don't get the Mono and make an honest run for the GLib they're going to want to eliminate us.

 

[killercane]

I asked Whomp what we were doing today (in one chat before this past turn he said they were going to Engineering and now it is Mono). The only thing I saw was "Wotan said research Mono." Im all for keeping our buddies happy but I didnt understand why were researching Monotheism when we would have it most likely for free two turns later? Im still unclear on this, especially since BABE has MWs that are better than Knights anyways.

 

[jb1964]

Just got of the phone w/ Whomper...

Mono is an unknown tech so somebody's going to have to research it anyways and we might even do that to make a mad dash to Astro w/ the Babes.

So point 1 is, we need Mono for a run at Astro.

The Babes are going for Feud presumably to bring some pikes with them to Sabre island.

Point 2 is, they don't need to research it but it has high value to them sooner rather then later.

After we get Mono, we go zero research and they go for Chivalry. The sooner the get Mono the sooner they get started on Chivalry and can be pumping out knights in their Golden Age putting a big hurt on Sabre.

Point 3, if we leave them hanging they're going to be pissed. We don't want that.

The Babes own the seas and we should enable them to take high advantage of that at the expense of our neighbors.

 

[Daghdha]

This is the pm's between me and Whomp. My bad not posting them as they came. I just referred to them but should have posted for every Gonger too see. Will do next time. the pm from Wotan was in Swedish and said "&#**KL¨'yh/>>)(/"#&()=VHJKV/&%¤?????" so no need for translation there

Originally Posted by Whomp
Hey Daghie,

We got a message from 'Cane saying you may not want to finish Glib. The thing about Free/Council research is they are likely running max on the lower half and cash for the other. My guess is they've already got invention and are continuing along that path. Do you think it's worth giving up on Glib still? It would likely mean engineering, invention and gunpowder at the min.

We're on feud if you go mono and it will be timed perfectly so we can continue on.

Let us know.
W
Hi there Bernie, we're discussing the options vividly. I fully aware you'd prefer us to go GLib and deny Saber a catch-up + getting a head start on the lower tire. I'm advocating that too, but there are more options of course and nothing is definitely decided. I will stick to my promise to let you know which way we go as soon as decided. I know this indecision will put some Babes off so heres a to cool 'em.
I'm off to practice so won't take part of this evenings diplo.

Stay clean
//N

Daghie,

We're trying to see things from your perspective but I'll be honest it's difficult. We've given you ~20 turns worth of research as a sign of good will. By not going for Glib and mono doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to us for a lot of reasons that I mentioned to 'Cane.

Please enlighten us why you're balking at this and if you're not doing Glib and mono where do we stand?

Our view is this brings us up to speed with Council/Free and leaves Saber in the dust amongst many other things like you being able to run full cash once it's finished....please tell us how we're both rewarded.

Thanks
W

We're back on track and I think jb's points are my points as well.

 

[RFHolloway]

My sense is we go for GLib, and run Mono at breakeven or faster. After that we let Babes go for astro, and we turn off research and fund them so that they can research on max. Once we have Mono we have all the techs we will need, and we should milk Glib for all its worth. We could pay cash now to help babes reasearch for techs once Glib expires.

 

[killercane]

As of last turn, we could research Monotheism in 4 turns at sustainable growth and only some stagnation in corrupt cities (~270 beakers per turn). So we ran just scientists and maximum gold (snail's pace of 50 turns). It will be pretty easy to do 4 more turns to deliver Mono to BABE a turn before their Feudalism comes in. I really dont know why their research is so slow? I suppose it is unit costs.

With cathedrals in the core we can turn down lux. The ~35 cities outside our core should add on average 7 or 8 citizens/workers per town by 1 AD, more if they are consistently +5 food. With workers already around (~80) this will give us virtual citizens of about 300. We need about 9 per town to whip all 3 culture buildings (4 for libe, 4 for cath, and 1 for temple). So we will have the capability to whip all improvements, but there will be a problem in logistics in getting workers where they are needed and getting all tiles worked on.

 

[RFHolloway]

Given we are religeous, you need to be aware of my developing strategy for 100k games - when you switch out of republic short cash rush so that when you get into feudalism, all your pop rushes are nice round 20's. You will have walls at 20, MDI's at 40, but 60 is a problem until muskets roll in.

 

[jb1964]

I suppose it is unit costs

Bingo! They're building a fleet of galleys and MW's. I see them land about 4 MW's and as many knights as it's going to take to bloody up Sabre.

I'll approach Whomp and Wotan one more time about making Free the target (Council built SoZ) and see what they come back with.

 

[Daghdha]

Don't know if I mentioned it but when playing the saves it struck me as important to settle the 2 islands in the north. They're both 1 tilers and my guess is they contain some useful rescource plus 2 extra towns is good for us (not as good as Guinness, but good enough

 

[killercane]

The banana island will be settled next turn, or at least a settler placed there. The forest island I dont know, probably in a few turns, I need to look and see if we can harvest the forest first.

 

[jb1964]

Don't know if I mentioned it but when playing the saves it struck me as important to settle the 2 islands in the north. They're both 1 tilers and my guess is they contain some useful rescource plus 2 extra towns is good for us (not as good as Guinness, but good enough

I didn't think of having a critical resource on a one spacer but that certainly fits. The Babes probably know better than to grab those islands and the other's are not going to be able to anytime soon.

So populate them at our earliest possible convenience.

 

[Daghdha]

The banana island will be settled next turn, or at least a settler placed there. The forest island I dont know, probably in a few turns, I need to look and see if we can harvest the forest first.

Requesting for the banana one tiler to be named Daghie's Retreat. It's represents my civ skills in a nice way.

 

[RFHolloway]

The banana island will be settled next turn, or at least a settler placed there. The forest island I dont know, probably in a few turns, I need to look and see if we can harvest the forest first.

If its got a banana on a square it wouldn't normally have anything else (but since its a hand crafted map...)

 

[killercane]

You cant place resources on another resource in the editor... but Rik is a god so who knows . What can be put on a forest, uranium or rubber too?

 

[killercane]

Any orders for this turn? It should be back in our hands by midnight if FREE plays per their normal schedule.

 

[Daghdha]

Take your full time if possible. The Babe treaty is in the making and, as I said before, I think it's imperative we have it signed, seald & delivered before we start whipping cult, or at least before the effect of that starts to show on F8.