Department of Turnplay

[killercane]

Correct me if I'm too dumb, but when we pop GLib the Dirtbags will see and stop trading techs asap.

Maybe probably most likely. Maybe our lack of contact would keep them trading, and they hope to avoid contact all the way to MT. But probably unlikely that that is the scenario.

An investigation of Sabre's city could tell us if we can delay the GLibe to build it in DSOTM, which would work best but we run the risk of losing it if they are building it somewhere else. That could mean the difference in them trading gunpowder across and not trading it.

 

[jb1964]

Maybe probably most likely. Maybe our lack of contact would keep them trading, and they hope to avoid contact all the way to MT. But probably unlikely that that is the scenario.

An investigation of Sabre's city could tell us if we can delay the GLibe to build it in DSOTM, which would work best but we run the risk of losing it if they are building it somewhere else. That could mean the difference in them trading gunpowder across and not trading it.

I would tend to defer to RFH's comments (maybe it was Bugs, dunno) that that coastal city is their second wonder city. I would hate to have Sabre finish off a very slow burn to Literature that's timed w/ a pre-build to take the GLib off the market.

The risk to build the FP first has paid off well. The risk to slide in a lib build has certainly put gold in our pockets as well. And I know some of you are the masters of risk/reward but to delay the GLib futher would almost certainly kill me.

@Daghie, BTW, this had me .

Let's swing some swords but not too many and not to furiously

Back to the topic at hand.... if we stop the sharing of tech bewteen those two, and that's a good bet (woulda never thought of it), then we can take advantage of that by going full friggin' bore to Astro and seeing what damage we can visit upon the Axis of Dirtbags before they're even close.

And seriously, if we delay the GLib the Babes are going to start wearing baggy flannel outfits and that's just not good for anyone.

 

[Othniel]

Correct me if I'm too dumb, but when we pop GLib the Dirtbags will see and stop trading techs asap.

You may be right, but I think that would still serve to greatly slow down their tech pace.

They'll have themselves a tech trading conundrum... Any trades they do amongst themselves will automatically include us riding along as the uncomfortable third wheel...

Of course, we still need to nail down our property title on that GLib.

EDIT: cross-post with a bunch of people...

 

[jb1964]

Hey guys, if we want the GLib to be more valuable we can just tell the Babes to hold off providing contacts.

According to the Babes the city that we're thinking might be thier GLib city is also their FP city and is now size 12. I guess they took a look at that one earlier to know that it's their FP city. Had they looked at it when we asked we could have known but at that time there wasn't a consideration of finishing it on turn 113 vs 112.

I think the reasons for finishing it prior to revolt outweigh holding it for a turn.

What's the consensus? Build the GLib or Rush and Revolt and put it back a turn?

 

[killercane]

According to the Babes the city that we're thinking might be thier GLib city is also their FP city and is now size 12. I guess they took a look at that one earlier to know that it's their FP city. Had they looked at it when we asked we could have known but at that time there wasn't a consideration of finishing it on turn 113 vs 112.

Hold on a second. We are getting dicked around by BABEs AGAIN? They had intel this was their FP city and I guess an embassy investigation to know that in the first place and they didnt share it with us? Coupled with a huge effort to get the gosh darn monotheism to them so they could take TEN turns to get to Chivalry? Now more than ever I say we build Glibe in DSOTM in 6 turns, and BABEs can just deal with it.

 

[jb1964]

Hold on a second. We are getting dicked around by BABEs AGAIN? They had intel this was their FP city and I guess an embassy investigation to know that in the first place and they didnt share it with us? Coupled with a huge effort to get the gosh darn monotheism to them so they could take TEN turns to get to Chivalry? Now more than ever I say we build Glibe in DSOTM in 6 turns, and BABEs can just deal with it.

I don't know for sure that that wasn't mentioned before. I only meant to pass along the info that since that was the FP city, true or not, and, therefore a productive city worthy of concern.

At the moment I don't see an upside to waiting. We can work out what appears to be the withholding of info from the Babes after the fact. If you would like we can gift them some gold and tell them to research that city and we'll make up the difference. If we pay the full price I don't see how they can decline and it appears if it may give us some data as to whether or not they are messing with us.

 

[Daghdha]

Their slow burn to chiv may be equaled when/if we decide we don't need more than Edu. for a long time. Let's about it for now.

Hold on a second. We are getting dicked around by BABEs AGAIN? They had intel this was their FP city and I guess an embassy investigation to know that in the first place and they didnt share it with us? Coupled with a huge effort to get the gosh darn monotheism to them so they could take TEN turns to get to Chivalry? Now more than ever I say we build Glibe in DSOTM in 6 turns, and BABEs can just deal with it.

I don't think we should act upon this suspicion. A diplomatic note of concern could be in place though.
Like, "It appears Babes have made an earlier investigation of Saber city/ies which is cool. What we're curious about is why this info on a common enemy isn't immediately passed on? Especially when the city in question might be the one where they build the much awaited Great Library. We are not assuming all info is always for free, but we do think an offer to somehow get it would've been nice.
Babes are fully aware of the fact that we're building GLib "blindfolded" and would like as much info as possible (and are willing to pay for it) on our mutual competitors Sabre......right?"

 

[killercane]

At the moment I don't see an upside to waiting.

The 6 turn window of waiting could perhaps mean the difference in a tech being traded that otherwise wouldnt have been traded but its all speculation. And building GL in DSOTM gives a better prebuild in Sugar Mountain to get to 600 shields for the as yet undecided wonder.

Their slow burn to chiv may be equaled when/if we decide we don't need more than Edu. for a long time. Let's about it for now.

Good point. I just wanted to point out that they just had to have Chivalry "as fast as possible", they refused to do intel of that Saber city, and yet they had intel this whole time? Its a Whompian conspiracy I tell you .

 

[jb1964]

Their slow burn to chiv may be equaled when/if we decide we don't need more than Edu. for a long time. Let's about it for now.


I don't think we should act upon this suspicion. A diplomatic note of concern could be in place though.
Like, "It appears Babes have made an earlier investigation of Saber city/ies which is cool. What we're curious about is why this info on a common enemy isn't immediately passed on? Especially when the city in question might be the one where they build the much awaited Great Library. We are not assuming all info is always for free, but we do think an offer to somehow get it would've been nice.
Babes are fully aware of the fact that we're building GLib "blindfolded" and would like as much info as possible (and are willing to pay for it) on our mutual competitors Sabre......right?"

Daghie, go ahead and send the note to Whomp/Wotan. From my last conversation w/ Whomp I think he's a bit fed up w/ me.

 

[jb1964]

The 6 turn window of waiting could perhaps mean the difference in a tech being traded that otherwise wouldnt have been traded but its all speculation. And building GL in DSOTM gives a better prebuild in Sugar Mountain to get to 600 shields for the as yet undecided wonder.:.

I understand your thoughts. IMO the risks outweigh the reward and the reward level has the possibility to be manipulated. From a risk standpoint we have Sabre w/ no other option in this world but to bend their will to building the GLib. And from a reward standpoint the FC Axis can't sit technologically idle forever and we can still maximize our return without any of the risk if we're simply sitting on the GLib with a big sh**-eating grin our our faces. (I'm the nutty one)

Good point. I just wanted to point out that they just had to have Chivalry "as fast as possible", they refused to do intel of that Saber city, and yet they had intel this whole time? Its a Whompian conspiracy I tell you .

Whompian? I like it.

We certainly seem to have fodder for calling the Babe's ambassador up to the oval office in Graceland and demanding an explanation. However, I would like to be holding all the cards rather than argueing over who's fault it is that Sabre got the GLib and the Babes invasion plan now needs to be adjusted for pikes.

Part of my dealings w/ Whomp have been overly open conversations as to the ongoings of GL build and the timing. Now that we have the treaty in place I would appreciate it if our first major action after the fact wasn't a negative one.

I felt Whomp out last nice, and man was it nice (but that's another story), with an off the record conversation. Their expectations have been piqued for turn 112. A delay for revolt would be real bad. To tell them the build is now coming in at turn 118 would really upset them. And it would be fairly obvious that we have two wonder cities going.

As far as having a better build for the next wonder I think there's zero risk of loosing out on Sistines and only a slight one for Leo's.

 

[jb1964]

OK, we need to make a call and it seems we need input from the team.

I'm for building the GLib because the risks of Sabre getting it before us are high and outweigh the reward that can still be manipulated. Additionally, the political consequences w/ the Babes would be a short to mid-term disaster that would become a long-term one if we lost to Sabre. We've been playing loose w/ the Babes based on a gentleman's handshake to be fair w/ each other. A delay will not be seen as fair and will make dealing with them for the remainder of the game prickly when it doesn't need to be. We wanted these guys w/ us and we need these guys. Let's not piss them off just yet.

 

[killercane]

I think most everyone wants the GL built asap. Correct me if Im wrong?

 

[markh]

I would bag the GLib first then revolt. This opens all options for us and let the Babes go for Saber. I would like to see the MW-Babes on that island.

 

[killercane]

Woops I didnt realize we were over the turn timer, I thought we had until 2 more hours . I will get this done asap.

 

[Othniel]

Turn 112 passed from Saber to Free...and no GLib announcement. Does that mean we are in the clear?

 

[Daghdha]

3 more hrs and still no announcement....I'm down to the liqour store. What'll it be? Krug, Bollinger, a nice red or just the usual sixpack

 

[jb1964]

[Edit] 13.5hrs 10hrs in Free's hands and still nothing....
[Edit] There's a lot of lurkers around the MTG thread today. Chaminix has been active for about 2 hrs. He's playing w/ my mind! It's another Whompian conspiracy!

Krug, Bollinger, a nice red or just the usual sixpack

How about splitting the difference and grab a big bottle of a Belgian ale?

Me, you ask? I'm torn. I'm thinking a healthy measure of Bushmills, a few Boddington's, or the aforementioned 500-750ml bottle of ale. I'll post pictures.

 

[RFHolloway]

Nah, you got to go with the theme - Guiness all round with Bushmills chaser.

 

[jb1964]

OK, it's been 16.5 hours and Still no anouncement.

CommandoBob is lurking the site. The save could be available very soon.

[Edit 7:10pm EST] OK, waaay premature. We're now at 19.5 hours (T-minus 4.5) and no sign of a save or Bob. I have to officiate a swim meet now so I hope to have the answer when I return at around midnight (a.k.a. launch plus 30).

Man, these past few days I'm getting pretty high on the "Get a Life" factor.

 

[Daghdha]

Yeah, I've seen bob logged on and he's the tp and they have the save and, and, and.....I'll go work some on the GLib pic