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Desert War Scenario- Allied Strategy

Discussion in 'Civ4 Strategy Articles' started by BuckeyeMC, Mar 20, 2006.

  1. BuckeyeMC

    BuckeyeMC Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2004
    Messages:
    17
    Location:
    Columbus, Ohio
    For the past few days, I have been trying to play this scenario as the allies. I have come up with a new idea for the west, which is not historically accurate, but may turn out to be benificial in the long run. Once I built up a decent force in Gibraltar, I attacked Spain. Here are my thoughts:

    1) Having troops just sitting around seems to be a waste. Obviously with no transports, there is nothing for them to do. At least in fighting the Spanish they are gaining valuable experience for when they do cross into North Africa. Spain is relatively weak at the start, Cadiz is easy to defend (on a river) and I have found that the British will station a bomber or two in your cities and attack the advancing Spanish troops, and bomb their mines at the same time. It may be the most helpful thing I have seen the AI do in the game.

    2) Trying to get Spain to join my cause has been futile at best. As the Allies you don't really have much to bribe them with to get in good political favor. Giving them money might be an option, but at least for the Americans it is money you get from the British or Free French. If you research a tech you have to give it to them since they never have any cash to pay for it, and I have never got them to the point of even offering an Open Borders agreement.

    3) There is a lot of good land up there to build cottages on, and some cities suited for production. That will be extremely helpful once you are able to attack North Africa. In the past I have been able to take cities such as Oran and Tangiers, but the 5 million or so artillery that the Vichy French seem to have lying around make it very hard to advance. With more cities besides Gibraltar producing units it will be easier to fight off the Artillery charge.

    4) This is an idea I have not tried yet, but I want to run this out there to see if will work: Build the intelligence center in Gibraltar. Use it to make spies to send into the interior of Africa, to see where all that damn artillery is coming from. If the spies are able to cut some roads, it may slow up the arty enough that some B-17s or Avro Lancasters (bombers with really good range) can pound them down enough that they don't cut all the tanks to shreds by the time they get to counter-attack. Has anyone else ever tried this?

    Also, anyone else build a worker right at the start in Cairo? There is a lot of land there that needs improved, esp. cottages and lumbermills.

    I would appreciate any feedback/advice on this scenario. Thanks!
     
  2. mostly-harmless

    mostly-harmless Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    486
    Location:
    Germany
    Hi,
    I am currently playing the scenario as free french on monarch. I tried playing as allies before and also tried attacking Spain for the good land. Unfortunately I did not build enough units to succeed.
    In the current game I attacked the Turks to get the good land up in the NorthEast. The critical point, whether the English and Allies can hold off the Axis at El Alamein withou the free french help. I had to redirect some forces from time to time to El Alamein and Alexandria to help out.
    With the Turkey being liberated I now push with Airforce and Navy to secure the seas east of Crete. (I need to secure that sea food resource!) Both, navy and air force are stationed at Cyprus and Alexandria to intercept any axis ships. Worked fine so far. I am now a bit clueless how to get going. Invading Greece seems like suicide with the German Tigers patrolling the shores and with the strong German Infantry.
    Helping out in the push for Tobruk seems to be the obvious choice, although coordinated attacks with the AI are impossible. I was thinknig about a light tank rush deep into the north africa to cut the roads and then take Tobruk.
    Plan B could be to surprise attack Italy on Sicily, although the transports would need really good battleship and air cover. But it could take the pressure off the allies and brits at Tobruk.
    I will let you know how it all worked out.
     
  3. GarethBeaumains

    GarethBeaumains Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    37
    a long time ago I wrote a game about battles in North Africa. This definitely seems to be a cool Civ application.

    Fortunately I know "what's coming" from a historical perspective.

    Unfortunately, that doesn't count doodly when it comes to Civ.

    I have never seen such rabid pro-Nazi Vichy French. They swarm all over you like barbarians at the gate. Their artillery-artillery-artillery strategy is awesome until they run into one thing: massive numbers of strike fighters and tactical bombers, followed up by Matildas!!!

    It was pleasing as pudding pie to watch stacks of 15 Vichy pop in a turn. Hammer them with aircraft down to 4.5 - 10 points each, and then let the 30-pt Matildas do the walkin' and the talkin'.

    Air recon in the game was vital. I usually relegated any fighter or bomber down to its last little red-lines of life to recon missions. I have never seen the enemy try to shoot down a recon patrol, and it has showed me precisely where the enemy is.

    For whatever reason, Germany and Italy are building way, way, way more surface naval assets than either of them ever had. Carriers, battleships... that's one way for me to remind myself "Oh yeah, it's still Civ."

    The Germans were particularly virulent in 1941 in terms of sending huge hordes of troops over, but the pattern is predictable: the troops come escorted with a destroyer, and battleships are splayed around them in a horde. I use aircraft, again, to whack all their ships down to about half or a quarter of what they were when they showed up on "my side of the Med." After that, I send in whatever surface asset seems to be able to finish off the job handily.

    I also had to learn to be patient. Let the bad guys come to me. Don't rush it. Surely the Vichy are on their way. It takes a long time for them to cross the desert, but damned! I wondered what they were doing in Cyrenaica!

    I cannot emphasize ENOUGH how important it is to get the fortifications and then the Base of Operations set up in each town. Without this, your game is doomed. It leads to all the vital advances.

    I'm in August 1942 now, and I am well on my way:

    - Half-way across North Africa, after liberating Libya and now about to enter Tunisia from the south.

    - Bottled up the Germans in Greece.

    - Malta is one huge airstrip. I am using it to dominate the central Med.

    - Finally got enough air and sea assets to keep a decent recon and hunter squadrons on my share of the sea. Anything that pops out south of the Straits of Messina or the line of Crete is dead meat now. I eat German and Italian squadrons for breakfast! 4-star battleships and 3-chevron subs! Nice.

    I still think it's too early in the war to have massively swung Spain or Turkey over to "our side," and sure enough, they love me, but not enough to allow me use of open borders. Not ahistoric. After all, before the war, both were nominally cooperative with Germany. Especially Franco's Spain.

    I've had a terrible problem trying to keep unhappiness in check. I think I must be missing something. I've tried to do my darnedest, but these people are going to just be more and more unhappy the longer the war drags on. Get used to it? It's World War II.

    Well, that's it for now. It's back to fighting the Gerries, eh?
     
  4. GarethBeaumains

    GarethBeaumains Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2007
    Messages:
    37
    Finally finished. Took all the objectives and the Germans were down to their last two cities in Greece, and I had launched an invasion of Italy, albeit probably prematurely.

    As the Commonwealth, it is best to play a "bottle up" strategy with Italy and Germany with your naval power first, and strike at Italian North Africa and then strike through Vichy North Africa. Then, back and take Sicily. Once that is done, your job is far easier. Also, take out Crete before striking at the rest of Greece. You'll be glad for having it as a staging base for your aircraft.

    The one crazy thing about the game was that I was winning the war like mad, but the people were still upset through war-weariness. I had even turned culture up to what? 80% 90% at times? Finally they would even complain at that level. I had no idea what to do about that. If the game hadn't ended through military objective-taking, I am sure the cities would have just depopulated through upsetness over the course of the rest of 1943. That just doesn't seem right.

    I also wish there was a way, like in Warlords, to force capitulation. Especially on the Vichy. There was *NO WAY* in history that they fought so fiercely on the Axis side. In fact, they were rather neutral until the Allies launched Torch. They fought for a while, but eventually they capitulated. The same should be possible for each of these powers. Though it shouldn't be easy.

    Overall, a good, hard fight.
     
  5. vikingSS

    vikingSS Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2007
    Messages:
    7
    where can i find this scenario to download? thanx for kindly reply
     
  6. Smigsmith

    Smigsmith Chieftain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    2
    just played this scenario for the second time and finally getting a little way, have pushed through n,africa right up to the vichy french border, but now not sure who to hit next, the logical step seems to carry on and take out the vichy, but starting to get a little concerned about germanys rapidly increasing armies just waiting it seems to get on a transport? am keeping there navy in check with bombers/battleships, should i hit them now before ther too powerful? any advice??? Also found bombing strategic resources(mines) very useful but when i started i would 8/10 times take it out 1st time but now my bombers miss 8/10 times? is this down to there city defensive percentage? any help much appreciated , CHEERS !!!
     
  7. Civ4sandman

    Civ4sandman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    I play as Free French. My strategy is to develop my air force from the very beginning. I started to build bombers in Homs from the very first turn. Before I could product any heavy tanks, I built only 2-3 light tanks to assist the British near El Alamein.

    When Operation Brevity came, I already had 4-5 Douglas Boston and 2 battleships in my hand. With battleships to bomb the city defense to 0% and massive air strikes, my City Raider heavy tanks always gained the experiences from enemy machineguns.

    The coming Afrika Corps were exposed to my bombers without any bunkers. They just gave my heavy tanks more experiences.

    I believed Greece was my first priority BEFORE they could have the Tigers. I built 3 transports and altogether 5 battleships to escort a dozen of heavy tanks to land the island Crete. Germans didn’t have as much airplanes as I do, but I still hurried to build a bunker in Iraklion.

    With the navy and the air force’s support, sacrificed 1-2 low experienced tanks, my tank landed Yithon directly from the boats. And more transports went into city and unloaded my troops who immediately cut off the roads connected to Athens. German Panzers and artilleries would counter attack this city, but they would be exposed to my bombers from Iraklion again.

    I created a route from Tobruk-Iraklion-Yithon to reinforce. Tobruk is now a tank production base. I had also irrigated all the way from Beirut to Latakia from the beginning. Latakia worked on both a mine and a windmill now. With the Rats of Tobruk’s help, now a fighter was able to be sent from Latakia to Yithon every turn.

    With almost 30 airplanes and 20 heavy tanks I swept the Greece. Tank's Repair function is very useful for the blitz action. It comes after 2 stars, only need 5/5 experience. Light tanks are also important to cut off roads and pillage enemy improvements for cash.
     
  8. Civ4sandman

    Civ4sandman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    Now I play as Allied, Monarchy.
    Without airforces, you can hardly conque Spain only with the light tanks and artilleries.

    In Gibraltar, I bulit a drydock and 5 battleships from the very beginning(12turns).
    That fleet would arrive at Alexandria and Suiz easily because the Axis didn't have enough bombers. Don't use them until the R.A.F have done their job and odds are above 90%.
    After that, buid a bunker and 2 workers and you can build science to get the Mobile warefare ASAP. For the Allied force, I suggest to go straightly to the Mobile warefare. Ask British and France to switch their science route.

    Before the Pearl Habor event came, I built another 5 battleships in Gibraltar and sent them to Tobruk. They had to stay at Valletta for 2 turns to recover. Then I swithed to build fighters and bombers all the way.

    In Cairo, build a worker in the 1st turn. Cottages are as important as watermills there. Because our light tanks and heavy tanks are stronger, so ask France to give us oil and build them. Take out Tobruk and Benghazi followed by British army. Build 2 workshops in Tobruk and make it productive.
    Because your navy helped British to defend their coast, their army support will be stronger.
     
  9. Gooblah

    Gooblah Heh...

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2007
    Messages:
    4,282
    My personal Free French strategy:

    Build Workers for the first few turns, until you have 4-5. From there, convert Lebanon into a massive production area, chain-linking farms, etc. Commence specializing each city to a different unit: Tanks, Artillery, Machine Guns, and later Fighters, Bombers and Infantry.

    Gift units to the UK, then America until they won't accept any more. Follow this up by taking all your units that you've been building and not gifting and blitz North Africa. Wrap it up by striking at Sicily and other islands and using them as airbases for a final assault.
     
  10. the mzr

    the mzr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
    Messages:
    35
    as the americans i can't biuld transports whats up with that
     
  11. Civ4sandman

    Civ4sandman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    You'll have to wait a long long time.
    Until Operation Torch starts in Aug 1942.

    See document in c:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Mods\Desert War\Info
    -------------------------------------------------------
    Historical Timeline (North Africa) 1940-1943:
    1940:
    12/02: First ANZACS arrive in Suez
    12/06: RAF bombs Tobruk docks
    22/06: Italy bombs Alexandria
    28/06: Marshal Bilboa dies in plane crash, Marshal Graziani replacement
    13/09: Italians invade Egypt from Libyan border
    09/12: English begin "Operation Compass"
    19/12: Italians request German assistance in North Africa

    1941:
    22/01: Tobruk falls to Australian troops
    06/02: Benghazi falls to Australian troops
    12/02: Rommel arrives in Tripoli
    04/03: English troops transfered from Egypt to Greece
    24/03: El Agheila falls to Rommel
    02/04: Agedabi falls to Rommel
    04/04: Benghazi falls to Rommel
    09/04: Bardia falls to Rommel
    12/04: Rommel surrounds Australian troops in Tobruk. Battle for Tobruk begins (Rats of Tobruk)
    27/04: German troops enter Egypt for the first time
    15/05: English "Operation Brevity" begins
    27/05: Rommel pushes across Egyptian border
    15/06: English "Operation Battleaxe" to relieve Tobruk begins - failed
    18/11: English "Operation Crusader" to relieve Tobruk begins
    08/12: English 8th Army relieves Australian troops in Tobruk

    1942:
    01/01: Bardia falls to English
    20/01: Benghazi falls to English
    29/01: Benghazi falls to Germans
    26/05: German "Operation Venezia" begins
    17/06: English withdrawal reaches Egyptian border
    21/06: Tobruk falls to Rommel
    25/06: Sidi Barrani falls to Rommel
    30/06: Rommel reaches El Alamein
    26/07: Eisenhower made Commander of invasion force for western North Africa
    13/08: Montgomery takes command of Eighth Army in Egypt
    23/10: 2nd battle of El Alamein begins
    02/11: English "Operation Supercharge" begins
    08/11: Allied "Operation Torch" begins
    10/11: Oran falls to US
    10/11: Sidi Barrani falls to English
    12/11: Bardia falls to English
    13/11: Tobruk falls to English
    20/11: Benghazi falls to English

    1943:
    23/01: Tripoli falls to English
    29/01: English troops enter Tunisia
    14/02: Battle of Kasserine Pass between US and German troops
    20/02: Rommel digs in at the Mareth Line
    09/03: Rommel leaves North Africa for Italy for last time
    26/03: Mareth Line falls to English
    07/05: Tunis falls to English/US
    12/05: Full surrender of all Axis troops in North Africa to Allies
     
  12. the mzr

    the mzr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
    Messages:
    35
    as the free franch i was playing for a long time then sudenly after or before d-day iforgot which one but then i couldn't biuld heavy tanks all i could biuld was free infantry and light tanks and wrkers please help me
     
  13. the mzr

    the mzr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
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    another thinmg is that as the free franch i pushed all they way to tripoi quikly i conquerred every city besides surt i have about 8-10 douglas bostens when i hiw tripoli i got it then the fench got iyt BACK EVRY TIME I GO THERE MY ARMY GETS STOPPED BECAUSE F THEIR MAS AMOUNT OF MEN I HAVE SAENT SPYS TO most pof thier citeis but every man i killed they biuld 2 more right now their cites are on research any i have a 20 man army far under the city biuld they are stockpiled with troops every time they send men i bombard them to a pupl ad britain kills them. but i can't complete this even though its on setler i can only biuld the men mrentioned in my post above please help tell me about how i could possibly take tripoli
     
  14. the mzr

    the mzr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
    Messages:
    35
    dang i hate their love for artilerys i think this scenarion ids too hard even on settler
     
  15. the mzr

    the mzr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
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    35
    well anyway i comquered that and was about to capture irakloin messina when they won by time victory
     
  16. Civ4sandman

    Civ4sandman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    before attack enemy cities.
    destory their forces outside first.
    use your allied forces' help.

    don't build spies. use airplanes to rekon.

    build workers to improve your cities first.
    at least 6-10 works.
    don't let people unhappy.
    build heavy tanks instead of infantries, and keep your railway system works.
    infantries are only used to hold cities or attract enemy airforces.
     
  17. the mzr

    the mzr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
    Messages:
    35
    i couldn't bould airplanes machine guns o artillery or heavy's or battle ships or destroyrers or submarines. that is why i couldn't biuld more airplanes or i wouldve wonn so much sooner i had enough resources to biuld them. i also had plenty bof workers
     
  18. Civ4sandman

    Civ4sandman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    9
    ask Free French to give you oil.
    So you can build light tanks.
    You must guild them to develop technology to build heavy tanks.
    And you must wait until Peal habor event to build airplanes.
     
  19. the mzr

    the mzr Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2008
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    i was the free french i had everything i needed to biuld them i had researched everything but it wouldn't let me biud anything how do i attach a game file so you can see
     
  20. Civ4sandman

    Civ4sandman Chieftain

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Messages:
    9

    send me a save.
    mailto: sandman@163.com
     

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