• Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .

Whither scenario design?

Opps sorry guys, I got busy, people stopped replying, then I forgot about the thread and a bunch of weeks went by lol.

Blake00: Excellent information. It's not a scene I'm familiar with. I have a couple of questions. First, is there anything we as a community can do to help encourage Steam etc. to include ToT on their sites?

Second, in addition to promoting individual scenarios, could we do more to promote our specific hobby and this forum? I'm thinking a promotional video might be very useful in this regard.
Cheers! While Steam is the one we want due to it's massive market share I sadly know of no way to contact them (plus it's not really them that put games on their site, it's the publishers), although I did post on the Civ4, Civ5 and Civ6 steam forums but 2K customer service lackeys either said they couldn't help, ignored and even deleted some of my posts grrr. However there are a few ways to get Good old Games's attention and GoG DO put games on their site themselves and they would be a critical stepping stone in getting the games to Steam afterwards (eg clearly 2K won't lift a finger unless it's easy and someone else does the work for them). Over in my get Civ1, 2 & ToT back into stores thread I list a bunch of GoG wishlist vote threads that I strongly encourage everyone to go +1 vote on as GoG staff target adding games that are in high demand on their wishlist service. I also contacted their support desk about the issue & vote thread and asked them to forward to management which they kindly did (unlike 2K's support desk who just said no :/ ) so some here may wish to do the same. However probably the easiest thing is sharing it around any Civ or retro gaming group you guys know of. Eg I share my vote thread around once a year to all the places I know and I'll post links to my latest shares below (the list is a bit big so I'll stick it in spoiler tags) should anyone wish to venture into some of these places and innocently post about these games being missing and forgotten about too. A lot of people are quick to say things like "bro just go to [insert warez site here]" "Bro just play FreeCiv" and other rather unhelpful comments so you'll notice I have disclaimers on my post which stops most (but not all) of that since as long as these games are only available on abandonware sites (that the casual gamer does not use/trust and are banned on almost all major sites including CivFanatics) then we'll never get the masses of returning players we want. That being said, should it never happen and we just can't get these darn games legally sold again and we're stuck having to make the best of a bad situation, then I have a few ideas about how to help people get portable copies of Civ2 and ToT but that sort of thing can't be arranged on this site without breaking rules so if people really wanna talk about that stuff with me then hop over to the Civ2 Discord.

List of places I shared to:
Spoiler :

CivFanatics Forums:
The original CivFanatics vote thread:

Facebook:
I've posted to CivFanatics FB page..
www.facebook.com/civfanatics/posts/pfbid0c3rM29hA9oc2fYa3WHBZBCcEF3TsSRtA1GQYfQBdFHTe8h4FupCbBmVYdtjMS4sEl
Cross-shared to...
Civ www.facebook.com/groups/CivilizationFive/posts/8124785600889246/
CivL www.facebook.com/groups/civplayers/posts/10161034053590664/
Civ2SL www.facebook.com/groups/82058499005/posts/10160365885349006/
CivPL www.facebook.com/groups/677881630340264/posts/778098700318556/
Civ www.facebook.com/groups/293581094389454/posts/1878764105871137/
Retro www.facebook.com/groups/dosbite/posts/3675468219392931/
Retro www.facebook.com/groups/360544584788433/posts/1534655537377326/
Retro www.facebook.com/groups/2209352733/posts/10160296932337734/

Reddit:
I've posted to CivFanatics Reddit page..
www.reddit.com/r/civfanatics/comments/1azgyfk/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/
Cross-shared to...
www.reddit.com/r/gog/comments/1azhooy/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/
www.reddit.com/r/4Xgaming/comments/1azhmlr/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/
www.reddit.com/r/civ/comments/1azhjn3/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/
www.reddit.com/r/Civ2/comments/1azhk4r/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/
www.reddit.com/r/civ2editor/comments/1azhke1/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/
www.reddit.com/r/civcirclejerk/comments/1azhky0/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/
www.reddit.com/r/Civilizations/comments/1azhlbx/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/
www.reddit.com/r/civmoddingcentral/comments/1azhlrf/civ_general_getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12/
www.reddit.com/r/civporn/comments/1azhm77/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/
www.reddit.com/r/retrogaming/comments/1azhn1n/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/
www.reddit.com/r/tbs/comments/1azhnaz/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/
www.reddit.com/r/oldgames/comments/1azho6x/getting_sid_meiers_civilization_12_test_of_time/

Discord:
Discord is a bit harder as you cannot share direct links to posts unless the person has joined that group. I'll just paste the invite links in here and tell you the subchat and you can go look if you wish..
CivMain www.discord.gg/PaTxrgQyQg #older-civ-games
Civ2 www.discord.gg/vg2cnZYyQa #general
Civ3 www.discord.gg/BgjxkMcsBM #civilization-1
Civ4 www.discord.gg/hwNfFE5ZhV #off-topic
Civ4 www.discord.gg/G6wvCvcv9B #chat
Civ4FFH www.discord.gg/H3uqZN8 #off-topic
Civ4FFH www.discord.gg/GgGQgkU #sh*tposts (no OT area haha)
Civ5 www.discord.gg/Rcv5xKv #general
Civ5MP www.discord.gg/9kEfg3U #main-chat
Civ5BR www.discord.gg/NGjEVHT #strategy-games
Civ5Mod www.discord.gg/2GecFuXzHM #civ_other
Civ6 www.discord.gg/2vA8p9fR4q #off-topic
Civ6 www.discord.gg/WNSfFjNFMW #off-topic-general
Civ6 www.discord.gg/zNqNDCt #civ-game-talking
FCiv www.discord.gg/ZXbR6gB84t #chitchat
WePlayCiv www.discord.gg/vvf2kNJnj3 #civ-talk
RealmsBeyond www.discord.gg/CFKZK7KfK9 #civilization
CivModding www.discord.gg/UDfsm46yGf #general
SMAC www.discord.gg/yPVhhvWBBF #other-games
CTP www.discord.gg/4xvv5h9JvA #other-general
Col www.discord.gg/4XP4S9yfJ8 #off-topic
MoM www.discord.gg/f2kSQ7t #off-topic

Instagram:
www.instagram.com/p/C3wz2PApDgl/

And yes any of you who are creators with youtube or even streaming should create videos to promote both the Civ2 missing from stores issue plus this SL community and it's amazing creations. As previously mentioned I've been working on my huge Civ2 video for years now that will do just that and it's in the final stages so I really hope to get it out there in the coming months and then share the living hell out of it. There will be many bonus episodes too covering different scenario themes (eg 'best star wars scenarios', 'best LOTR scenarios' etc etc) that will mention this community and the stores issue and point people back to the original main episode video so I hope to get a huge amount of mileage out of that video as I'll be sharing Civ2 scenario content videos for years. Plus I'm doing it all again for Test of Time as that is going to get it's own main episode in my video series and lots of it's own bonus spin-off videos too. However while my Doom mods went almost viral a few years back and I became 'kind of' known out there I only have 1.3K subs on youtube so I'm still small fry and will need to share the living hell out of all my videos to all the retro & Civ groups I can find out there (like the ones in the spoiler list above). Once out there I very much hope all these years of work will make a difference around here but I'm one man with only so much reach so I definitely encourage others to create content about these 2 critical things (1-Get Civ2 back into stores, and 2-the awesomeness of the SL & it's creations) and share them around.

At least I had no luck with using the Civ2 ToT 1.1. patch on my Win 10 64 bit pc. Longer time ago I made a post about it here: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/totpp-download-bundle-website.632877/page-2#post-15168042

For the reply in this post I made the following test in the Civ 2 ToT chronicles installation on my pc. In this screenshot you can see parts of my Civ 2 ToT Chronicles installation with the original Civ 2 ToT exe and the patch to version 1.1. included in that installation. The patch is not able to detect the Civ 2 Tot installation, even when started as administrator:

View attachment 686753

View attachment 686754

One of the main reasons to write my last post was, that it should be taken into account, that not only the decreasing access to Civ 2 Tot and the decreasing number of players is a problem, but also the decreasing number of pcs and laptops, which are able to perform the update to the 1.1 exe of Civ 2 ToT, that is needed to start ToTPP.

I am not a computer specialist, so may be you are able to achieve here better results with Win10 and a 64 bit pc. Good luck!

I thought maybe a manual install could be done as I was able to open the ToT1.1 patch exe in 7zip however sadly it keeps everything important inside cab files I can't get into.

1713499681131.png

However it's likely just a registry issue that could be easily faked. I had to do something similar years ago to get the Civ4 Babylon 5 mod working as it required a bunch of Civ4 registry entries the Steam & GoG versions don't create. Once you know where the CD version puts the game info in the windows registry you can make a registry insert file with your game install folder location all in notepad pretty easily. I'll look into it..
EDIT: Found some solutions and need testers. Posted in that other thread you linked to..
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Hi everyone. My ancient computer running my copy of ToT had some difficulties, so I'm on a new machine but that doesn't run old games well. Ack. I did save my work, though, so my projects are saved.

I came here to this thread to say that I think there is a lot of appetite out there for "retro" pixel-art isometric games like what we are making here. It's just a matter of finding the audience and making ToTPP more accessible to install onto machines (as I am discovering). I wonder if there are some games media companies or websites people more well-versed in this community could reach out to and let them know what we are doing. It would be great to have more players for the scenarios and mods and this kind of civ game. There's a lot of fun to be had! I also really like @Blake00 's idea of YouTube videos for scenarios and mods.

The other option is to solicit help from the great open source programmers out there to create a ToTPP from the ground-up that utilizes Lua and all of the graphics files we have, and that is a one-shot install for people. But that would take expertise, time, and would I'm guessing need permission.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: I've exhausted the new Civ iterations. As a diehard 4x fan, Civ6 is less interesting than the mods/scenarios posted here. In the same way vinyl records and flip phones are coming back to the youngsters, maybe there's a place for our little operation here. ;)
 
I hope you are right. One essential thing is to find a fully functional download for ToT that is compatible with the official patch. There have been some, but once downloaded, they don't function. Telling people to buy a copy on eBay etc. isn't going to get a lot of uptake. Once that has been accomplished, bundling with ToTPP etc. can be attempted.

Here's a link to a previous effort along these lines by McMonkey: https://rooster998.wixsite.com/test-of-time-pp
 
If any of you happen to have ToTPP installed on your computer currently, I would highly recommend that you copy and paste that entire folder onto a flash drive in the event that your next computer does not include a CD drive, or your copy of the game disc breaks (it's an OLD cd by now, after all). You do not need an actual CD at this point. The game can simply be copied and pasted. Unfortunately due to pirating we aren't able to simply upload it anywhere and direct anyone there, but this is a way you can ensure you will always have a copy.

It irks me to no end that we have this solution but legally can't utilize it to help others seeking this game :) I wish we could get it in writing from whoever owns the rights that we're simply allowed to do this.
 
It irks me to no end that we have this solution but legally can't utilize it to help others seeking this game :) I wish we could get it in writing from whoever owns the rights that we're simply allowed to do this.
Such a written question to the possible holders of the rights of Civ 2 and Civ 2 ToT, where the access can be proofed, if we are allowed to do this and if we receive no answer than we are allowed by them, can also help to clear up the question, who is the holder of these rights. :think:
 
Are you sure that there's really a legal issue? We keep hearing this, but I've not seen a definitive explanation to date. It seems to me that it's abandonware at this point.

Well, no. I doubt entirely anyone would ever be prosecuted in a civil or criminal manner for this. At least not at the scale we're likely to ever attract new friends. What could we possibly spread to? A few hundred people on a best hope? I doubt it would be worth it to pursue even if someone noticed.

Buuuuuut.... I am sure we aren't going to be allowed to upload it here.
 
If any of you happen to have ToTPP installed on your computer currently, I would highly recommend that you copy and paste that entire folder onto a flash drive in the event that your next computer does not include a CD drive, or your copy of the game disc breaks (it's an OLD cd by now, after all). You do not need an actual CD at this point. The game can simply be copied and pasted. Unfortunately due to pirating we aren't able to simply upload it anywhere and direct anyone there, but this is a way you can ensure you will always have a copy.

It irks me to no end that we have this solution but legally can't utilize it to help others seeking this game :) I wish we could get it in writing from whoever owns the rights that we're simply allowed to do this.
That is literally how i've installed MGE for the past 10 years...
No idea what happened to the disc.
 
Telling people to buy a copy on eBay etc. isn't going to get a lot of uptake.
I remember seeing copies of civ2 running for hundreds of dollars on Amazon. They wanted like $750 for a copy of the original.
 
Well, no. I doubt entirely anyone would ever be prosecuted in a civil or criminal manner for this. At least not at the scale we're likely to ever attract new friends. What could we possibly spread to? A few hundred people on a best hope? I doubt it would be worth it to pursue even if someone noticed.

Buuuuuut.... I am sure we aren't going to be allowed to upload it here.
I agree with that. The management of this site are pretty scrupulous about avoiding risk. However, if there were an independent site of some sort, it might be done. I think the chances of an official objection are extremely slim. There's no financial loss involved.
 
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