Dev question.

[ClassicThunder]

Anyone know what language civ 5 is going to be written in? Main reason I quit modding was because Win 7 didn't support VS 2003.

 

[GigaNerd]

Do you mean "language" as in "programming language?" It's gonna be written in Lua.

 

[2K Elizabeth]

Do you mean "language" as in "programming language?" It's gonna be written in Lua.

Yep - LUA will be the modder's choice of weaponry.

 

[AZSportsFan]

Yep - LUA will be the modder's choice of weaponry.

Are you saying that the DLLs are now "off limits" to the modders? In other words, no more distribution of C++ source code?

 

[2K Elizabeth]

Are you saying that the DLLs are now "off limits" to the modders? In other words, no more distribution of C++ source code?

Definitely not saying that - just wanted to reaffirm that LUA will be in there. More details on modding are coming!

 

[AZSportsFan]

Just checking. LUA is cool for scripting, though.

 

[GigaNerd]

Definitely not saying that - just wanted to reaffirm that LUA will be in there. More details on modding are coming!

It seems as if 2K employees never release new details on request, even to their most loyal fans.

Seriously Liz, if you want the company's profits to increase, give us some info about Babylon's situation with modding and multiplayer! That's how to be a successful sales representative!

 

[Chalks]

It seems as if 2K employees never release new details on request, even to their most loyal fans.

Seriously Liz, if you want the company's profits to increase, give us some info about Babylon's situation with modding and multiplayer! That's how to be a successful sales representative!

Yeah, it really would be good to have some clarification on this. It's difficult to believe that you've decided to have DLC but you've not decided how it will interact with modding and multiplayer and it's a pretty important aspect.

 

[2K Elizabeth]

It seems as if 2K employees never release new details on request, even to their most loyal fans.

Seriously Liz, if you want the company's profits to increase, give us some info about Babylon's situation with modding and multiplayer! That's how to be a successful sales representative!

I'm here because you guys are pretty much the most amazing Civ forum there is in the world - that's because you are loyal and awesome fans. But if you asked me to give you the release date, or the system specs, or all the details about modding, I wouldn't do it. Not because I don't love you, but because either the details aren't finalized, or we're not ready to give all that info out properly.

Wouldn't you rather have a full feature and podcast about modding? A Q&A with the devs explaining all the cool stuff we have up our sleeves? That's what I would want, and that's what I'm making. It's coming! I'm just not a miracle worker. It takes me time.

 

[phungus420]

I would assume the civ4 devs and take2 reps are busy debating this and related topics currently. I doubt 2K Elizabeth has any weight in that fight whatsoever. Keep in mind you have a lead developer for civ5 who came from the modding community, and who would be happy to expose nearly everything to us. In the other corner the suits from 2K games are Wallstreet business types, interested in quarterly profits first and foremost, and they likely view any and all exposure of source code as a hindrance to making money (particularly when viewed against the profitability of DLC). The positions of the distributers and developers are very often quite different, and I do not expect that even the most basic questions raised in this thread have been decided yet.

 

[ClassicThunder]

Do you mean "language" as in "programming language?" It's gonna be written in Lua.

Interesting last time I used Lua was modding Homeworld 2 a long time ago. Anyways, Lua is predominantly a scripting language, is it replacing python, or maybe just replacing it for events and map generation and not the UI? This would make sense as Lua is faster, smaller, and uses less memory than python.

However, I was assuming that there would be a SDK as there was for Civ 4 and was hoping it would use a more modern version of C++, preferably 2008.

 

[GigaNerd]

It seems as if 2K employees never release new details on request, even to their most loyal fans.

I'm here because you guys are pretty much the most amazing Civ forum there is in the world - that's because you are loyal and awesome fans. But if you asked me to give you the release date, or the system specs, or all the details about modding, I wouldn't do it. Not because I don't love you, but because either the details aren't finalized, or we're not ready to give all that info out properly.

This just further proves my point.

All we want to know is if Babylon will get in the way of mod distribution. It's a simple yes-or-no question, and I find it hard to believe that the developers haven't decided upon an answer yet.

Liz, I'd be willing to sacrifice my CFC account and enslave my soul to Steam for a decent answer!

 

[ClassicThunder]

Would you kindly stop hijacking my thread and pestering the 2K employee?

 

[CanuckSoldier]

Are you saying that the DLLs are now "off limits" to the modders? In other words, no more distribution of C++ source code?

It has already been stated via various inteviews and statements that Lua, xml and a programmable dll will be the end state. Exactly were the dividing lines between the 3 is the kinda of details that have not been released, likely because it hasn't been set in stone yet on the Devs side. And SDK's are not released until after the product hits the shelf anyway as it is a waste of time to spend resources on it, when the source code itself it changing all the time.

CS

 

[phungus420]

If I remember correctly they didn't release the Civ4 SDK for about 6 months after it hit the shelves. Which makes sense; at the early stages of release, when demand is high, putting the guts of the game out there in the form of the source code opens the software up to piracy issues that just aren't as big of a deal later in the year. Also as I stated earlier I just doubt that the stages of releases and how to deal with DLC and what not; I just don't think these have been dealt with in detail, and there is likely a bit of debate about this going on in house.

 

[Zhahz]

I'd imagine the core code will still be c++ and I'd also imagine they're using something more recent. VS2003 is 7 years old now... There are alternatives to VS and you can compile without any dev environment at all.

Liz, I'd be willing to sacrifice my CFC account and enslave my soul to Steam for a decent answer!

She doesn't have the info to give. The game is in development - it's not done. Either she doesn't know the answer or she's not allowed to give an answer for reasons that don't matter since nothing is going to change the situation.

Let's say she does a podcast or something regarding modding - is she really gonna cover the legal aspects of modding vs DLC in a marketing piece? Kinda doubt it. I'd imagine you'll be waiting til release or an unlikely NDA drop to find out - if it's even something people bound by the NDA would know.

 

[GigaNerd]

Would you kindly stop hijacking my thread and pestering the 2K employee?

Sorry, ClassicThunder. When Liz showed up, I was hoping to get some answers out of her. Guess I should've known better.

 

[LDiCesare]

Wouldn't you rather have a full feature and podcast about modding? A Q&A with the devs explaining all the cool stuff we have up our sleeves? That's what I would want, and that's what I'm making. It's coming! I'm just not a miracle worker. It takes me time.

I don't like podcasts, but if there's a text transcript, that would be great to have.
If you answer questions about map scripting, licensing and distribution of mods, immediate or delayed access to dll modding, whether the game logic is all in lua or in C++, and for C++ which compiler's being used, that would be great.

 

[civ_king]

I'm here because you guys are pretty much the most amazing Civ forum there is in the world - that's because you are loyal and awesome fans. But if you asked me to give you the release date, or the system specs, or all the details about modding, I wouldn't do it. Not because I don't love you, but because either the details aren't finalized, or we're not ready to give all that info out properly.

Wouldn't you rather have a full feature and podcast about modding? A Q&A with the devs explaining all the cool stuff we have up our sleeves? That's what I would want, and that's what I'm making. It's coming! I'm just not a miracle worker. It takes me time.

this is wonderful news, do you know if the Q&A will be released this month?

 

[2K Elizabeth]

I would assume the civ4 devs and take2 reps are busy debating this and related topics currently. I doubt 2K Elizabeth has any weight in that fight whatsoever. Keep in mind you have a lead developer for civ5 who came from the modding community, and who would be happy to expose nearly everything to us. In the other corner the suits from 2K games are Wallstreet business types, interested in quarterly profits first and foremost, and they likely view any and all exposure of source code as a hindrance to making money (particularly when viewed against the profitability of DLC). The positions of the distributers and developers are very often quite different, and I do not expect that even the most basic questions raised in this thread have been decided yet.

You guys have some crazy ideas of what it's like to work in an office.

If there are specific things you want to know - please do post them here. I'll round them up and add them to my questions!