Deviancies from what to expect?

[Manco Capac]

Hi PIE,

first of all, superb increase in difficulty. I remember when I started the mod how deity was easy and suddenly, by now, I have sheer difficulty to advance despite moderately advanced in empire developments and technology. Indeed, that represents well the typical difficulty of ancient time warfare. As for an example, I'm studying egyptian forts in Lower Nubia (between first and second cataracts) and there are so many of them despite Nubians were fragmented and at disadvantage. It took generation of pharaohs just to annex a territory. So it is well represented in PAE. No longer the snowball effect typical of BTS were one get a tech edge and roll over the world in less than 50 turns. It's sluggish, but once a city captured, there is a warm feeling it was hard to besiege it.

Now, to the point: shelled units. I'm not sure what it means, but I suspect it is hiding behind walls for years, surviving of water from cisterns and food from granary. Live at the strict minimun while being attacked by the enemy.

My problem with the concept is it seems quite skewed. Originally, I thought it had to do with the comparison size of stacks: the bigger makes the other shelled. But in fact, it doesn't happen so. I let it slipped for a time, but this last time, I thought it was a bit ridiculous an army of 7-9 units make my huge army of 40 units and more shelled. It makes no sense. Even more, when I'm attacking an AI, my units, outside the besieged city, get shelled. In fact, I'm always the one that undergoes shelling factor. Never the AI. Regarding when being besieged, it's not hard to bypass by simply put the army outside the city and the shell event won't happen.
Just asking, because it is one aspect that makes my conquests almost impossible as I always get shelled.

Another point: are the RNG not skewed? I know the psychological effect of the 1% loss making one to think the RNG is skew and such, but I know the Soren RNG generator works all fine. What I find weird since my first day I played PAE is I never dare to get any 2% per turn for either anger/unhealthiness/anything. Those small percentages happen so often I tend to think it is more like 10-20%. Same for taxes. I'm so traumatized it happens so often even for a 1% I don't date to exceed 50% gold slider (or more depending of happiness cushion). I am quite sure the AI that has almost 20% and it doesn't happen for many turns is intented as to make the AI playable despite its natural incapacity. Nevertheless, to almost always get punished for a small 2% makes me think the odd shown aren't truly the ones behind the game.

It's not a rant by the way. I'm just scratching my head.

 

[Manco Capac]

Ok, this time I brought a huge army. The shelled units event just makes the game unplayable. Can I have an explanation how it works because when on tech parity, it feels I need to bring 8 times in units to have a slight chance to break just one city. 8 times a city of 40 units is quite a lot... On top of that occurs the problem (I didn't have such but read about it in the PAE pedia) of army revolt if there are not sufficient generals to lead the ranks.

It's a bit disappointing when after four attempts, I cannot even scratch the enemy. How come the glorious Hittites can't scratch the enemy?

Also, I'm curious about the fact I can't get longsword technology. Didn't the Hittites being the masters of forges and iron? Yes, they got caught pants down due to the Sea People and the Assyrians, but I think, hypothetically, they should be able to tech it by themselves without the need to capture the tech through invasion (which I think perhaps almost impossible without "cheap" method) given 12 swordmen are going to be tough nut to break with 8 ones.

The problem I feel is I will need to cheat to have a slight chance to win. How? Units in chariots. That way I attack without shelling event and have perhaps a slight chance to win. Like it is now, I feel like TAM mod at the late period where war are incredibly hard on high levels.

Waiting your reply. Perhaps you might not remember who I was before my username change, but I normally don't point out something out of whim, but when I see this can be a serious problem. Possibly, the bad point from me is I play deity, which most probably makes the game as hard as intended.

 

[Soulmate]

2% makes me think the odd shown aren't truly the ones behind the game.

That's the problem of mine too =) Somewhere in this thread I had a post where my Babylonian capital was struck by the plague 3 times, like right after the healt status change or on the next turn (I had the unhealthiness only due to the loss of some resourse and I brought it back in about few turns every time). And right in the middle of the worst plague that shrunk my capital to 1 population(as I heard that is quiet unlucky) I had the slave revolt
My point ? Just cheers for your problem I feel your pain Some people are unlucky

 

[pie_at]

Oh, I am very sorry. The shelled issue is a bug! I solved it in the upcoming second patch for PAE V.

The 2% thing: eg. I check some things every 5 turns. So it is correctly a 10% chance in that turn. But for easy understanding, I show the 2% value per turn.
In fact, with 2% per turn or 10% per 5-turns, every 50 turns this should happen at least one time.

ehm... understandable?

 

[Manco Capac]

Oh, I am very sorry. The shelled issue is a bug! I solved it in the upcoming second patch for PAE V.

The 2% thing: eg. I check some things every 5 turns. So it is correctly a 10% chance in that turn. But for easy understanding, I show the 2% value per turn.
In fact, with 2% per turn or 10% per 5-turns, every 50 turns this should happen at least one time.

ehm... understandable?

Oh, so the odds actually grow by time. That explains all now. Basically, it grows like an arithmetic serie where, at some point, the odds are 100% and it'll happen.

When I thought of the odds, I thought it was 2% each turn, meaning after 10 turns the odds of happening goes (1-0.98^10)=0,18==> 18%. But each turn is still 2%. With the linear increase of the odds, that explain much why it happens so often.

Also, may I have the code patch for that bug. I suppose it's python, so it just needs a replacement. I wish to pursue the game I started before starting another one.

 

[pie_at]

ehm, no the chance doesn't grow! I meant, I check the chance every 5 turns with 10%.
In the city bar I can't show 10% per turn, because it would be wrong. So I divide 10 with 5 and you see a 2% per turn chance. After all, both means that in 50 turns it should have happened once. If not, you're lucky.

Python bug: yes of course, I will have a look when I am home again.

 

[Manco Capac]

 

[pie_at]

ok, so, MC: in Python/EventManager there is a function called doRangedStrike.
there you enable those two lines:

pSelectionGroup = pCityUnit.getGroup() # MISSION_BOMBARD
pSelectionGroup.pushMission (MissionTypes.MISSION_RANGE_ATTACK,0,0,0,False,False,MissionAITypes.NO_MISSIONAI,pPlot,pCityUnit)

and disable all following from
CyEngine().triggerEffect( gc.getInfoTypeForString("EFFECT_CANNON_HIT_SMALL01"), pPlot.getPoint() )
to
pCityUnit.finishMoves()

until
def doHistory(self, iGameTurn)

you can disalbe either with a # per line or with """ at the beginning and at the end. but in the correct line pitch.

or just delete it, it's in the original files anyway

 

[Tigranes]

^^ Can we include this in hotfix or something? See, when mod/patch is released you really want all the players to have the same copy. For example they would not even be able to play MP otherwise...

 

[pie_at]

Do you need this as a hotfix yet, even now the patch 2 is out?

 

[Tigranes]

No, sorry, I thought it was discovered after patch