[DG2] Offline Sessions

[DaveShack]

Who's going to do this? I would just open the 2 additional polls but don't want to mash any toes.

 

[Falcon02]

Sorry, been a Busy week (and really will continue to be for a while )

When should offline sessions at the DP's discretion be allowed?

• Only when the citizens have approved an offline session
• At any time, without requiring citizen approval
• Abstain

This list is okay, got one problem though, I assume the "at any time" option would include a veto allowance? I think we can safely say yes, argument would probobly be on the mechanisms of that veto though... which could be addressed later.

So long as that's covered, looks good to me.

 

[DaveShack]

Let's add this to the description in the 1st post. It should be reviewed for bias. I am trying very hard to fully disclose what the options mean without tainting the vote, but someone else needs to read it and determine if that's successful or not.

With citizen approval could mean citizens must vote in advance for the session to be offline, or it could mean a veto mechanism where offline sessions are assumed to be approved unless vetoed. The decision of which mechanism to use would be made in a future poll, if this option wins.

Without citizen approval inherently means no veto, the DP can choose to make any session offline and there is no permissible mechanism to prevent it, other than to not vote for someone in an election.

 

[donsig]

Without citizen approval inherently means no veto, the DP can choose to make any session offline and there is no permissible mechanism to prevent it, other than to not vote for someone in an election.

That's how I read that option.

 

[Falcon02]

My problem is, I would support Veto power, but don't like a poll each time either...

Nor do I think there shouldn't be any citizen way of preventing a offline session

 

[Cyc]

I think you got the "Without Citizen Approval" option description right.

The "With Citizen Approval" should be with a DP initiated poll. The citizens should know which Presidents or DP have been or are wanting to play a session off-line. So they would be looking for approval polls from that person. If citizens are interested in keeping the sessions on-line, those citizens will watch for these request polls and vote accordingly. If the DP doesn't post a poll and get approval, the session stays on-line

 

[DaveShack]

I think we had decided to have a 1st poll which asks if we want citizen approval of some form to be required. If that poll shows that approval is not required, then we don't need to go any further. I'm going to watch for comments to the descriptive text for a few more hours and then start the two polls if nobody else has done that (one each for "DP discretion" and "special circumstances").

If the poll shows that some form of citizen approval should be required, then we can debate and vote on whether it should be "mother may I" or "veto" style.

I think it might be necessary to reword the 2nd description to avoid references to veto:

With citizen approval could mean citizens must vote in advance for the session to be offline, or it could mean a veto mechanism where offline sessions are assumed to be approved unless vetoed. The decision of which mechanism to use would be made in a future poll, if this option wins.

Without citizen approval means the DP can choose to make any session offline and there is no permissible mechanism to prevent it, other than to not vote for someone in an election.

 

[Cyc]

I don't believe you need another poll to find out if citizn approval is wanted, DS. The poll above clearly shows that both special circumstances and normal play @ DP descretion both need citizen approval.

I also believe that a lack of VETO poll is not a clear sign of citizen approval. Let the DP who wants off-line session get the approval they need to proceed. The norm is on-line, the exception is off-line. Make the exception initiate an approval poll.

I'm not really understanding where you're coming from here...

 

[donsig]

If the poll shows that some form of citizen approval should be required, then we can debate and vote on whether it should be "mother may I" or "veto" style.

I would like to formally propose that we include the "Simon says" form of approval as well. We must be fair.

I understand the reasoning for a new poll but Cyc has a pont - needs citizen approval got a majority of votes already. I also agree with Black_Hole who pointed out that does not need citizen approval got a majority of the votes. (I think I did vote for both options myself.) Why don't we just come up with a veto method (which is the closest we can come to both having and not having citizen approval) and poll that to see if it's acceptable?

Suggested veto mechanism: DP announces ahead of time that off-line session is planned. (Three day notice?) Veto should be accomplished without a poll but we might want to require more than one citizen's objection to the off-line session (3 or 5?).

 

[DaveShack]

I agree that "needs approval" got a win over "doesn't need approval" in both the "DP Decides" and "Special Circumstances" part of the vote. However, the interpretation standard of "all options with more than 50% win" in the OP precludes the simplest way to address the problem.

Black_hole's argument is that the vote might have been different if it was a strictly one or the other poll. That argument may be valid, and the only way to test it is to run a new poll.

I'd actually prefer to get on with the preapproval vs veto issue, if objections to scoring this poll as a win for "approval needed" were lifted. Or we could go with the "preponderance of discussion" method saying that 80% of us would like to do it that way, and the 20% will just have to get over it.

 

[Cyc]

If you take out all the double votes on any given issue, "with citizen approval" would win.....

 

[donsig]

If you take out all the double votes on any given issue, "with citizen approval" would win.....

Well, I voted for both but prefer the without approval method. Who else voted for both and what is your preference?

 

[DaveShack]

Followup polls:

DP Discretion
Special Circumstances

 

[donsig]

Well, I voted for both but prefer the without approval method. Who else voted for both and what is your preference?

Nevermind donsig, DaveShack would rather post polls than discuss things.

 

[Cyc]

Nevermind donsig, DaveShack would rather post polls than discuss things.

That will teach you people to vote yes and no on the same issue....

 

[donsig]

That will teach you people to vote yes and no on the same issue....

Point taken!