Diety Diplomatic writeups

[Airny]

I just looked up one of his games, there he founded confucianism.

Oh, I just realized you wanted to know if he ever had a state religion, right?
I doubt that.

 

[WastinTime]

Playing Victoria is a big clue that it's an OCC game. The health bonus is much more important to OCC. I'm still not convinced it's important enough, so I've moved on to a new leader.

The main reason to avoid religion is to keep the AI happy. The next biggest reason is that it will cost you a turn of anarchy. When I play a spiritual leader I do run a state religion for a while after the AI is pleased with me. I have a couple new games in the 1100's that both used a spiritual leader.

 

[Airny]

I tried to repeat your strategy with Warlords, but there are problems that make it, in my opinion, impossible:
-You cannot build the Globe Theatre or the Oxford University with OCC (on large maps you need at least 7 cities)
-I tried to use a prophet to get confucianism , but they changed the technology-priorities so that he discovers Masonry first

One more reason why I think they should split the HoF in Classic and Warlords. At least make it possible to filter between those.

 

[ruff_hi]

You cannot build the Globe Theatre or the Oxford University with OCC (on large maps you need at least 7 cities)

That isn't right. If you have OCC checked, you can build all the national wonders in your single city and the only requirement for things like Oxford is that you have build a theatre.

 

[WastinTime]

Oxford does require one University, and Globe Theater does require one theater on Vanilla CIV IV. (You must have OCC checked.)

I can't confirm what Airny wrote about Warlords changing these requirements.

 

[ruff_hi]

I can't confirm what Airny wrote about Warlords changing these requirements.

I can and Warlords doesn't change it.

I just played a game, put all my hammers to beakers for about 30 turns pre UN, chopped everywhere so that I had about 600 hammers in the queue then started to build the UN. I was 2 (!) turns away from the UN when Gandhi gets and engineer. I check F4 to find that he has the UN tech ... press enter ... @!$^!#$%!#$^@#$ Gandhi has built the UN and I was 1 turn away from building it. I wasn't in any of the civics that let me rush it and 1 turn of anarchy was 1 turn too many.

I when back to an auto save game (no HOF submission with this game now), changed civics, rushed the UN and wouldn't have won diplomatically anyway - about 200 votes (1 of the AIs) short. I did learn that I only need to be 'friendly' and in front of my opponent (say +10 to there +8) to get an AIs vote - good to know.

 

[Airny]

Yeah, I forgot that you can check OCC.
Anyway the new prioritylist makes it harder get beauraucracy.
I tried Ramses and got 2 priests very early.

 

[Dracandross]

Very nice indeed. Didnt think that OCC would work this well.

Have tried 2 games now, first I was able to do UN quite early. I failed to get votes though. All were quite positive but someone had +5 or more from civics. So I noticed my mistake: Shoulda traded democrazy & Suffrage earlier to get enough out of wise civics.
Next game I tried a bit different picks and failed to get UN by 1 round (didnt get engineer). Of course cant be sure, but at least it showed like I'd been one to get votes with best relations to all but 1. On third one lost alot due again few more testings, though it's far from finished. Well see.

Anyway great post, learned a lot for diplo games.

-Dracandross

 

[Dracandross]

Finally managed to pull out Sm/Mansa/Epic/Inland victory about 1350 or so. Few comments I noticed.

1) Specially got hard time when I had Gandhi picked up. He always ran fast for Alphabet/Liberalism/Mass media. I hate when AI starts to trade all techs beetween themselves before I get enough gap to be sure on liberalism first. I can hold Alpha quite long before starting to trade it, which means I can shoot for CoL first (well didnt need worker techs). And after that hes only one competing to build UN. I think one doesnt even need engineer if G is not in game. Ill not pick him again unless I run out of peaceful opps. It was very easy to get to physics first. Even with quite low max pop.

2) Im not sure if Mansa was best pick for civ as epic doesnt suffer so much from anarchies as quick (unless you get to combine more changes on one change when going quick). But it was nice to run relig in the early game when I had no risk of being attacked for a while.

 

[Bozso]

Hello
In OCC games how do you mange to have the highest score, as the computers with more cities surely have the highest score.
Is is possible to get votes without highest score?

 

[WastinTime]

If you build the UN, you get to be one of the two being voted on no matter how small you are. Your score doesn't matter. You will need to get others to vote for you.

 

[ruff_hi]

I was looking at one of your HOF saves and you picked on opponents that you could win over via civics. I set up a Warlords game with your preferred opponents only to find that warlords has changed some of their favorite civics. Does anyone know of a list of warlords specific fav civics?

 

[WastinTime]

I was looking at one of your HOF saves and you picked on opponents that you could win over via civics. I set up a Warlords game with your preferred opponents only to find that warlords has changed some of their favorite civics. Does anyone know of a list of warlords specific fav civics?

You got it! They all like the civics that I run during the vote -- Free Religion, Free Market, Universal Sufferage. Sorry I can't help with Warlords. I'd think it is in the on-line help. Just hit F12.

 

[superslug]

Here are the Civics of the Vanilla civilizations.

This page lists the favorite Civics of the new Warlords civilizations/leaders.

If you want all for both Vanilla and Warlords, try this reference file:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=2499

The main download link is file that unzips to excel. If you scroll down a bit, you'll find a zip that extracts to PDF.

 

[Lexad]

If you build the UN, you get to be one of the two being voted on no matter how small you are.

One minor correction - if you own the UN

 

[KMadCandy]

I was looking at one of your HOF saves and you picked on opponents that you could win over via civics. I set up a Warlords game with your preferred opponents only to find that warlords has changed some of their favorite civics. Does anyone know of a list of warlords specific fav civics?

if you don't want to tab out of the game to check, the exotic foreign advisor that's part of the HoF mod has this on the diplo option, in the info tab.

 

[ruff_hi]

Here is a list of the leaders, their fav civic in vanilla and then in warlords. Some have changed ...

ALEXANDER           HEREDITARY_RULE     HEREDITARY_RULE     
ASOKA               UNIVERSAL_SUFFRAGE  FREE_RELIGION       
AUGUSTUS                                REPRESENTATION      
BISMARCK            REPRESENTATION      NATIONHOOD          
BRENNUS                                 ORGANIZED_RELIGION  
CATHERINE           HEREDITARY_RULE     HEREDITARY_RULE     
CHURCHILL                               NATIONHOOD          
CYRUS               REPRESENTATION      VASSALAGE           
ELIZABETH           FREE_RELIGION       FREE_RELIGION       
FREDERICK           UNIVERSAL_SUFFRAGE  UNIVERSAL_SUFFRAGE  
GANDHI              UNIVERSAL_SUFFRAGE  UNIVERSAL_SUFFRAGE  
GENGHIS_KHAN        POLICE_STATE        POLICE_STATE        
HANNIBAL                                FREE_MARKET         
HATSHEPSUT          HEREDITARY_RULE     ORGANIZED_RELIGION  
HUAYNA_CAPAC        HEREDITARY_RULE     HEREDITARY_RULE     
ISABELLA            POLICE_STATE        THEOCRACY           
JULIUS_CAESAR       REPRESENTATION      REPRESENTATION      
KUBLAI_KHAN         HEREDITARY_RULE     BUREAUCRACY         
LOUIS_XIV           HEREDITARY_RULE     HEREDITARY_RULE     
MANSA_MUSA          FREE_MARKET         FREE_MARKET         
CHINESE_LEADER      STATE_PROPERTY      STATE_PROPERTY      
MEHMED                                  VASSALAGE           
MONTEZUMA           POLICE_STATE        POLICE_STATE        
NAPOLEON            REPRESENTATION      REPRESENTATION      
PETER               POLICE_STATE        BUREAUCRACY         
QIN_SHI_HUANG       POLICE_STATE        BUREAUCRACY         
RAMESSES                                ORGANIZED_RELIGION  
RAGNAR                                  HEREDITARY_RULE     
FRANKLIN_ROOSEVELT  UNIVERSAL_SUFFRAGE  MERCANTILISM        
SALADIN             THEOCRACY           THEOCRACY           
SHAKA                                   POLICE_STATE        
STALIN                                  STATE_PROPERTY      
TOKUGAWA            MERCANTILISM        MERCANTILISM        
VICTORIA            REPRESENTATION      REPRESENTATION      
WANGKON                                 CASTE_SYSTEM        
WASHINGTON          UNIVERSAL_SUFFRAGE  FREE_SPEECH

 

[ruff_hi]

I've also been looking at your tech path and have found the following:

some food tech (fishing, agri) - guess this depends on what you have near by
bee-line for alphabet (make lots of trades)
Code of laws
Civil Service
Paper (more trades)
Education
Philo (traded?)
Liberalism (select astro)
Drama (globe)
bee-line for Mass Media (picking up some economic techs in trade)

Is that about right?

 

[KMadCandy]

One minor correction - if you own the UN

true. but in an OCC game if someone else builds it, you can't ever own it anyway, it would disappear forever if you conquer the city since they're autorazed right? altho you could have PAs on i suppose.

 

[WastinTime]

Nice post, and congratulations on your games. I enjoyed reading this. Also, now that I see these are OCC, I can understand why you like Victoria over Liz. I was wondering about that when I read your initial post.

I assume that you didn't declare a religion in these?

If I'm able to get them to +4 trade relations, I will take on a religion and pacifism, but probably only if I'm playing a spiritual leader.