Difference between Attitude and Rep?

[ToastyAlbus]

Isn't attitude just a verbose representation of the numerical reputation you've earned? I thought Attitude was Furious->Gracious? and that those words corresponded with a system of 100 to -100?

Thanks!!

 

[Tomoyo]

Your reputation only effects the willingness of other civs to agree to per turn deal with you. The attitude is completely different.

 

[Catt]

Attitude is indeed a numerical value that is affected by a number of in-game actions, and that numerical value determines whether a given civ is furious -> gracious with you. Bamspeedy deciphered the intricacies of how AI attitude works in his article AI Attitude.

Reputation is probably also a numerical value of some sort but is not visible in debug mode (the manner in which Bamspeedy decoded attitude values). Unlike attitude, reputation is affected by a fairly small number of ingame events - principally your history of honoring deals that you strike with other civs (trades involving resources or gpt, RoPs, military alliances, peace treaties). If one of your 20-turn deals is broken, deliberately by you or inadvertantly by anyone, your reputation is blackened. Similarly, if you declare or start a war with troops in enemy territory, even absent an RoP, your reputation is blackened. What happens when your reputation is blackened? You will find it very difficult (almost impossible) to secure a RoP and sometimes a military alliance, and you will find it nigh on impossible to trade for up-front assets if any side of your payment is 20 turns. An example: with your reputation ruined, you will not be able to buy a tech for gpt; you will not even be able to alter a trade of tech for tech which is deemed acceptable and then add in a gpt payment or resource as a freebie -- your reputation prevents you from successfully offering 20-turn deals in exchange for any hard assets. You will still be able to trade 20-turn for 20-turn deals (i.e., resource for resource, gpt for resource) and you will still be able to accept 20-turn assets for up-front assets (i.e., your tech for an AI's luxury), but you can't add 20-turn deals to your side of the ledger if you're receiving any up-front asset.

Another way to think about it is, whether a certain civ is furious or gracious with you, your reputation will determine whether a given deal will be acceptable or not, even if your side of the ledger seems to offer quite a sweetheart deal to the AI.

 

[JonFitt]

Is there anyway to get a measure of this besides trying to make trades? Also, is there anyway to recoever a bad rep? I seem to remember the eiffel tower doing this in either civ2 or ctp.

It seems like something you need to keep an eye on.

Also, the AI must get itself a terrible rep, it's forever marching into my territory unannounced and only declaring war when I ask them to leave, or they reach a city.

 

[Denarr]

Recovering a bad rep is a matter of keeping your agreements, and time.

The AI probably does get a bad rep, making it easier to buy/sell to them, simply because no one else will.

It doesn't drive the price down for you, but other civs being unwilling to accept deals from them allows you to deal with them for the same items.

 

[t3h_m013]

itd be good to have things that can whiten you r reputation... as it is it takes milenia (sp) for the AI to get over it..

 

[Denarr]

All the more reason to honor your agreements.

 

[smackster]

Recovering a bad rep is a matter of keeping your agreements, and time.

I'm not convinced your rep ever recovers. Logic would tell you that is the way it should be. But with the little testing I did, once you break your rep you just can't do per turn type deals ever again (aside from per turn for per turn etc).

I did a little testing last year.

One thing I was able to confirm was that a bad rep does not effect the absolute value of a tech. If the tech is 1000 Gold with good rep, then it is 1000 Gold with bad rep, attitude does affect it a little, and sometimes breaking rep, changes attitude (or rather the event) so gives the feeling that prices go up with bad rep.

I think there are at least three types of rep, and they are partially interrelated, per turn deal rep, ROP rep, and alliance/peace rep. If you break ROP rep then it seems that you can't get per turn or alliances anymore. However, you can break a per turn deal and stil get ROP at no extra charge. Once you break a peace deal, you'll not get an alliance again (well ok you'll get one for the moon).

Once you get the tech lead, and feel that you are not going to lose it, then you can dispence with rep.

Also you don't seem to be able to make rep worse than bad. I mean, its either good or bad, no other variable. So if you are going to break it, break it good.

 

[Oystein]

I made some test once, and found out that a single bit in the savefile could toggle good/bad rep. I think this was from a broken trade per turn deal. This strengthen the theory that rep cant recover.

 

[microbe]

The AI probably does get a bad rep, making it easier to buy/sell to them, simply because no one else will.

You probably don't get what rep is..

 

[jst666]

Reputation is probably also a numerical value of some sort ...

just wondering... what else it could be

 

[Denarr]

Let's see...Russia declared war, killing my rep due to GPT deals I had going.

I made peace with Russia 10 turns after making an alliance against Russia.

No one would trade with me for GPT. Whether they were Furious or Gracious.

Later on, I was able to trade GPT with each nation, including the furious ones.

If it seems I have rep wrong, please correct me.

As far as I can tell, Attitude only effects the actual cost during trading, and the likelyhood of the rival declaring war, when they don't get their way, or are insulted.

 

[bob rulz]

A couple questions here...

Your rep is blackened if someone declares war on you when there was a deal going and not vice versa?

Your rep is blackened if you declare war on them when they have people in your territory? That's just stupid.

 

[smackster]

A couple questions here...

Your rep is blackened if someone declares war on you when there was a deal going and not vice versa?

Your rep is blackened if you declare war on them when they have people in your territory? That's just stupid.

Are these questions or statements?

If somebody declares war on you and you have a "per turn" deal with them then you do _not_ lose rep. However, if you have a "per turn" deal with another civ, and that war (with the first civ) breaks a trade route with that other civ, then you have your rep broken. Nobody likes that. However, before you trade your luxuries / resources, make sure you know how you connect your trade routes, and be warned.

Your ROP rep is only blackened if you declare war on them with troops in their territory, or you have a ROP deal with them.

smackster (reputation master)