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Difficulty... too high?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Dracul JOSHI, Oct 22, 2016.

  1. kampori

    kampori Warlord

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    Barbarian camps next to horses on turn 2 are too Moderator Action: <snip> OP. Three games in a row this happened to me. They spawn a horseman every 2 turns. Ridiculous

    Moderator Action: Please review site rules about inappropriate language.
    Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2016
  2. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Barbarian camps don't spawn anything unless a scout has found a city and then returned to their camp. Use your early Warrior to follow Scouts that may have sneaked into your territory, if they manage to get back to their camp, kill the camp before it starts spawning stuff.

    But I agree that ignoring them is being punished too harshly on lower difficulties.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2016
  3. kampori

    kampori Warlord

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    Barbarian camp spawned on turn 2, 4 tiles from my borders. I found the camp before their scout found me. He spawned a horseman that very turn (which can attack straight away), and a horseman every 2 turns. Or a horse archer. Within 10 turns, he had 4 horsemen and a horse archer surrounding my capital. They never attacked my capital (they could have easily taken my capital by turn 15) but just stood there while I picked them off one by one, while very slowly building archers. Only when I had built 5 archers and 2 warriors was I able to push back the barbarian horde. 30 turns had gone by before I had even explored my surroundings, when I realised my land was absolute garbage. So I quit that game and started again.

    Their scout finding me had nothing to do with them mass-producing horsemen
     
  4. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    That sounds like a bug then.
     
  5. God of Kings

    God of Kings Ruler of all heads of state

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    Deity is actually trivial when done this way:

    •Set the only victory condition to religious
    •Play on a duel-sized Pangaea map as any civ (except Kongo) with Kongo specifically as your opponent
    •???
    •Profit!
     
  6. Acken

    Acken Deity

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    Not really. Honestly the game right now is badly balanced and the AI has some issues. Mostly the game is a challenge in the first 75 turns and then you cruise to victory. And thats somewhat regardless of difficulty.

    I very much like this new civ but work needs to be done to give a more even challenge. There is a large peak in difficulty early on and if you survive its a cake walk.
     
  7. Dracul JOSHI

    Dracul JOSHI Chieftain

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    I just figured out one of my problems... I don't get any free units.

    That sounds like a no-brainer, but in Civ 5 AND Civ BERT, I always get tons of free units... first from exploration (ruins/skeletons) and then from my peaceful playstyle (Military City State gifts / leashed aliens) to get through early game... helped in BERT that I start with a Warrior and can upgrade him through free Affinity from exploring.
     
  8. Dracul JOSHI

    Dracul JOSHI Chieftain

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    ok, this sounds like fun for a single game... I will actually try that. (but why duel-sized map specifically?)

    Reminds me of my Civ 5 Duels against Venice.
     
  9. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    He suggests dual map to ensure that you don't have to compete with a third civ that might found a religion. His suggestion is arguably a cheesy way of knocking out religious victory and Deity victory achievements, and experimenting with founding and spreading a religion, but not much else.
     
  10. Dracul JOSHI

    Dracul JOSHI Chieftain

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    I can do that on any map setting using advanced setup.

    Also, an addendum: Disable barbarians... a huge map filled with barbarian camps that are gunning for you are plenty dangerous by themselves.
     
  11. Nefelia

    Nefelia Prince

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    That seems to be the case thus far. Once you figure out how to thrive in the dangerous Ancient Era, you've largely got it made. On the bright side, that means Civ VI has a robust and dynamic early game. The devs just need to tweak the later eras to bring them up to that same standard. :D
     
  12. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    As far as I can tell the AI just starts with a ton of units, like it did in Civ 5.
    I'd assume that's especially problematic on Marathon, where you can't push out a number of Units and be half-way to Archery once their attacks hit.
     
  13. ackadacka

    ackadacka Chieftain

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    On diety the AI starts with 3 settlers and 5 warriors.
     
  14. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Three settlers? Jesus Christ...
     
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  15. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Immortal AI starts with 2 settlers, so from a starting unit standpoint, Civ VI immortal is roughly equivalent to Civ V Deity.
     
  16. Dracul JOSHI

    Dracul JOSHI Chieftain

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    so my assumption that civ 6 still uses cheating enemies was correct.

    what's so hard about writing an algorithm that has the enemy leaders adapt to their position, sight and situation and keeps track of previous events so as to adapt gameplay throughout the progress of the turns based on the previous events?

    I could probably write one by myself within 3 Months... implementation would take about 9. 12+, if I had to rewrite and test it for new features constantly.

    It's not like you have nothing to go off of. the forum has an entire section dedicated to strategy including building order, field prioritazation and teching... and others.

    For example, a part could be something like this:
    Caesar's turn
    Legion Unit sees barbar/enemy unit
    is enemy unit weak against Legion unit?
    yes > move toward it and engage
    no > is Legion unit 1.5 times stronger or more?
    yes >engage
    no>flee
    engaging subroutine (over several turns, threaded)
    engagement ends
    has unit survived?
    yes > heal & continue as before
    no > make new Legion, research Knights, build wall/fort/castle in city/cities closest to engagement location.

    all you really need are sufficient getter and setter methods, to get all the information that should impact the decision making and it can easily enough be interwoven with personality traits.
    but it might require switching from the XML architecture to a Object oriented compilor Programm (C#, Java or similar) with a modular architecture and a mod interface.
     
  17. Browd

    Browd Dilettante Administrator

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    Didn't realize you were an experienced AI programmer. If you're serious about writing code for a superior AI, you will be a rich man (or woman -- need to beware of unconscious bias).
     
  18. Ryika

    Ryika Lazy Wannabe Artista

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    Well that was a quick and easy way to show everybody that you have no idea what you're talking about.
     
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  19. Ulthwithian

    Ulthwithian King

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    Dracul: Then write an algorithm. Present it to me, and I will have a Human strategy that can tear it apart in far less time than it took you to implement it.

    Also, I am glad that you have a realistic view of how long this would take. You are saying it would take one FTE a year to build a credible algorithm. Not a flexible system to improve the AI over time. Not anything but the algorithm. I agree.

    Do you know if 2000+ hours were budgeted for that in CiVI development?
     
  20. King Jason

    King Jason Fleece-bearer

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    This thread is confusing;

    First you ask people to go easy on you, but when you complain about getting outplayed by the A.I. and people point out glaring problems with your play - you essentially say that you shouldn't have to follow their suggestions in order to be able to get what you want done. Also, the guy that plays on settler takes issue with Deity lvl cheating?

    you even toss in;
    like your problem is everyone's problem.

    Build a settler or two by turn 50, and have a standing army of at least 3-5 units; a couple of ranged and whatever else. If you don't want to do that even on settler then the problem isn't the game, man.
     

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