Diplomacy Log: Realms Beyond

[YossarianLives]

Private Message sent to Scooter on 16.11.2012

Hi Scooter. We have received RB's message, and indeed we did confuse our directions. UCiv is in fact east of WPC and northeast of us. They would be roughly in the "6" location on the speculative map you sent us.

 

[YossarianLives]

Message received from RB 17.11.2012

Another idea. Are you guys interested in signing Open Borders so that we can eventually get trade routes between us? I think that would be super helpful if we could connect that way, as we would both benefit from that arrangement quite a bit. Any thoughts?

scooter - Team RB

 

[YossarianLives]

Message sent to RB 19.11.2012

Hi Scooter / RB,

That sounds like a good idea to us. Are you thinking full Open Borders, or just for the trade routes with "no scouting" allowed?

Glad to hear you're getting along with your neighbors. Still no sign of Impis in our part of the world, so we should be ok as long as we can keep the Barbs at bay. Our mutual military struggle brings us closer together.

Regarding our border agreement ideas, we will be settling a city that is around this area very soon, which is why we wanted to open up discussions again. This city will have the Oasis in the BFC. We respect this halfway-point landmark, however, so this is as far West as we will settle.

Caledorn for Team CFC

 

[Caledorn]

Message received from RB 21.11.2012

Caledorn,

We were thinking full open borders would be nice. Is that OK with you?

One clarifying question on the Oasis site - can you tell me where in the BFC that Oasis is? By that I mean, what tile in relation to the Oasis are you planning on settling?

 

[Caledorn]

GTalk transcript 21.11.2012

realmsbeyondscooter: hey a quick note to let you know - I'm heading out of town in a few hours and I'll be gone until Sunday
so there's a chance if need be, somebody else may take my place while I'm gone

me: Thanks for the headsup, and have a nice trip then

realmsbeyondscooter: thanks! any chance you can let me know on the oasis city pretty soon? would help a little if that info came in before I left

me: Hold on and I'll check the team forums. Will you be around until you leave?

realmsbeyondscooter: yep
2-3 hours I'll be at a computer still

me: What info do you need? I can't find anything in the forum

realmsbeyondscooter: just what I asked in the email I sent this morning - where the planned city is in relation to the oasis

me: Oh. bah. I haven't read that. Let me read it. I recently reinstalled my hacked Android, and have forgotten to set up the email account on sync. Give me 15 minutes

realmsbeyondscooter: oh no problem

me: Read it now. Let me check where the Oasis will be. I think it will be in the right outer part of the BFC
Er. Left

realmsbeyondscooter: ok. yeah if you could just pass on what tile the city is founded on in relation to the oasis that helps us a lot to understand (we don't have visibility on every tile around the oasis, just some)

me: Slight difference between left and right here... coughs

realmsbeyondscooter: yeah just a bit haha

me: I am not 100% certain what our turn players has recommended, and if you want a 100% certain answer I have to ask. But based on the screenshots I believe the city will be either 6,6 or 6,3 from the Oasis
Let me see if I can find the dotmap someone made
Ugh. That did not help as the dotmap also proposes 3 as a possible location. I will ask. Hopefully one of the turnplayers will clarify before you leave, because this is not helpful at all

realmsbeyondscooter: ok, yeah if you could just let us know that would be helpful.
without full knowledge of what the terrain looks like, i would say 6-6 and 6-3 would both sound nice from our perspective

me: There, I have posted. The time here is 16:51 now. What is the latest you will check your GTalk before leaving?

realmsbeyondscooter: maybe an hour or so. If I'm not on at that point, just send it to our email address and someone else will check it

me: Roger that. Hopefully I will have an answer within the hour

realmsbeyondscooter: I think the team is fine with the oasis spot, I just know there's a preference that the spot sets the border and isn't TOO intrusive... but we don't want to be a hassle either. so if we knew the exact spot you were aiming for it would let the team talk it out and make sure if all that makes sense

me: Yep, that makes perfect sense. Our intentions are that we will not build any cities west of that city in that area (I can't say definite not west of that spot as we do not know if there may be other locations that will be west of that spot, but will not enroach on your territory. That sounded very legalese but I hope you understand what I mean?)
The salt water body south of that spot may for instance have settleable lands south of it that we do not know about

realmsbeyondscooter: Yep, understood
ah yeah
curious - have you seen any islands on saltwater bodies or no?

me: None

realmsbeyondscooter: we have a saltwater body to our west and we see land across it, but we can't tell quite yet if it's an island or just land jutting into it
ok

me: Oh, that is very interesting. Hmm..
Perhaps there are islands outside the Pangaea with phat lewt..

realmsbeyondscooter: we will be checking soon. but yeah, so far we just see land sticking out of the water, so we are curious if the body of water is just thin or if there's a small island on it

me: It may of course just be that you are the westernmost civ and that the map has water around a large Pangaea, but still interesting and exciting to theorize

realmsbeyondscooter: yeah could be, hard to say so far
it's really too bad we lost our scouting unit so early, that really handicapped us
had 88% odds to win on defense and lost it

me: Ouch, that was really bad luck on the dice

realmsbeyondscooter: yep, it happens

me: Gah. It seems the turnplayers are uncertain.
Okay, the spots I have been given as possible locations are, in no order of preference mind you, are: 9 9-9 9-6 and 6-3
Good thing I asked as only one of those are among my suggested spots
Whichever spot is decided, it will be our westernmost city in your direction. There is full consensus about this on the team.
If any of those locations are undesirable for you, please let us know. It is uncertain if we will settle a city there as our next settlement or if we will delay it a bit, so the sooner the better if there is objections.

realmsbeyondscooter: thanks!

 

[YossarianLives]

Message sent to RB 25.11.12

Hi Scooter / RB,

Full open borders is OK with us. We have proposed open borders in game.

 

[YossarianLives]

Message received from RB 26.11.12

Caledorn/CFC,

Thanks! We have accepted the Open Borders.

scooter - Team RB

 

[YossarianLives]

Message received from RB 29.11.12

Caledorn,

My teammates suggested an idea, and it sounded like a good one to me. Would you like to make an agreement to not spend EPs on each other any more than are needed to get graphs? I believe we've actually out-spent you on EPs so far (we didn't meet other targets as fast as you), but we'd be very happy if we could come to an agreement so that we can both focus our EPs elsewhere. Any thoughts? I think it would help a lot on gaining info on our neighbors more quickly.

Also, I wanted to alert you that WePlayCiv has declared war on the German team. I don't believe I heard that you guys ever made contact with them, so I thought you might be interested to hear that. WPC managed to take an undefended German city very quickly! Have you heard any other whispers of war from other civs?

scooter - Team RB

Then 10 minutes later...

Whoops, a teammate told me that you guys have already met both of those teams so you already knew about the war. My mistake - here I was thinking I was being helpful .

scooter

 

[Caledorn]

GTalk transcript 30.11.2012

me: Hey, are you around?

realmsbeyondscooter: yeah
what's up?

me: I need to make a formal apology for forgetting to let you know that we met those teams. I've had too much on my mind with all that's happened and I haven't done the best job diplomacywise for my team

realmsbeyondscooter: oh, it's no problem at all. we had already met them, so it's of much less importance to find out that you've met them, especailly when we can see it in-game
I don't even think it's really all that important. more useful is when we find out you've met somebody who we haven't and vice versa

me: When I saw your message now I felt really embarrassed I hope your team doesn't view us as unreliable or dealbreakers, as I never intended to intentionally break our word

realmsbeyondscooter: oh no, don't worry about it. I don't think it even occurred to anyone that you hadn't told us - I just thought I forgot at first (somebody who logs in much more than me pointed it out)

me: Just to make sure, we have contact with you, WPC, UCiv, Spanish Apolyton and the Germans

realmsbeyondscooter: yep. and we have WPC, german team, and you guys

me: Yeah, those are your northern neighbours. UCiv is ne of WPC, and SpApo is to our east

realmsbeyondscooter: yep, sounds right. how are things with the spanish team? any better?

me: Well, that's a difficult one. We have peace with them, but they do not wish to sign a NAP (I think they were betrayed by a NAP in a previous ISDG, so I think they don't trust the deals).
We don't think there's any danger of war though

realmsbeyondscooter: ah that is challenging. but glad you don't seem to be in any danger. are their borders close at all? we were surprised at how quickly wpc and german team had close borders, and that seems to have spurred the war

me: As we don't know where their capital is, we don't know exactly how close they are. The city we found the borders of are comfortably distant, but at the same time closer than you guys are. I haven't counted the tiles though. I think they expanded southwestwards
And that we found their southwestern lands

realmsbeyondscooter: ah that's nice then to have some breathing room

me: Yeah, there's one of those funky little mountainranges between us as well. Like the one we asked you about
It's miniscule though. So obviously placed there as a marker by plako

realmsbeyondscooter: ah I see

 

[Caledorn]

Draft

Hi Scooter / RB,

We are in agreement on your suggested EP treaty, and we will suggest that we keep the EP treaty in effect for as long as our NAP is in effect (which also means that when/if we renegotiate the NAP the EP treaty also continues to be in effect unless either team explicitly states otherwise in the renegotiation terms).

Caledorn, on behalf of Team CFC

 

[YossarianLives]

Message received from RB 21.12.2012

Hey - can we get a quick check on the barb situation for our scout? We have our scout E-SE of the stone, 1 east of the desert hill (it's touching all 3 wines so that the scout + wines form a square). We would like to move SE-SE next turn onto the plains hill, and we see your borders through the fog next to that tile. Can you tell us if it's safe to move onto that tile with regards to barbarians?

If at all possible, a quick reply on this would be greatly appreciated so that we can know if it's safe to move 2 tiles next turn instead of just 1. I'd hope this goes without saying, but we will of course return the favor should you be near our borders in the future.

Thanks,
scooter

 

[YossarianLives]

Exchange of Private Messages between Scooter and YossarianLives

Received on 23.12.2012

Yossarian,

Any idea if we're going to get a reply from you guys about the scout movements? I sent an email to the CFC account a couple days ago but hadn't heard back.

Thanks,
Scooter

Sent on 23.12.2012

Hi Scooter,

On T80, there was a barb warrior 4 east 1 south of your scout's location. If it moved into our borders as we were assuming it would, then you should be safe. If it moved west or southwest, then it would be adjacent to the hill you would like to move onto. I will ask our turnplayer to check that for you when he logs in.

Sorry about the delay in our reply. I'll see where we are with a formal message to your team.

Received on 27.12.2012

Hey Yossarian - quick note to see if I can get a confirmation that it moved into your land and the coast is now clear to move onto the plains hill SE of the wines next turn (T82)

Sent on 27.12.2012

Yeah, the coast is clear.

 

[YossarianLives]

Message sent to RB 3.1.2013

Hi Scooter / RB,

Welcome to India! We hope you enjoy your visit with us. If you need any immediate directions, please feel free to message me or Yossarian. He doesn't check the team email account as frequently, so GTalk (vhinderl) or a pm at his RB account is best. You can still reach me on GTalk anytime, too.

We haven't gotten back to you yet about an official agreement on Espionage spending, but we do hope you noticed that we removed all espionage from your team as soon as we met another team to put them on, and we haven't spent any additional EP's on you since. We would be more than happy to agree that neither of us shall exceed your current EP spending (that means that we are allowed to catch up to your current spending if we choose to). This will be in place for the duration of our NAP.

Speaking of which, we are beginning to near the end of our current NAP. We propose a 30-turn extension to the current NAP that expires on T100. This extension would of course come with an automatic extension to our EP agreement.

The Germans are trying to find a way around our borders to the south, and this will probably require Open Borders. We notice that you have OB with both WPC and the Germans. Has this caused any tensions at all? We don't want to jeapodize our current neutral position. It looks like the Germans have been able to slow down the WPC attack. Is that your take on the war, too?

We look forward to continued cooperation in the new year.

All the best,

Caledorn on behalf of Team CFC

 

[YossarianLives]

Message received from RB 3.1.2013

Quick note: Message received. This message is kind of hilarious timing, our team was in the midst of reviewing a draft I wrote up which said a lot of similar things. We even had that exact NAP turn extension in mind . I'll get an official response back to you guys shortly.

Thanks,
scooter

 

[YossarianLives]

Message received from RB 4.1.2013

Caledorn/CFC,

Thanks for the message. As I said in my confirmation email, it seems we're thinking along the same lines. We're happy to accept the NAP extension & EP spending provisions. Also, pass on my personal thanks to YossarianLives for ensuring that our scout arrived at your borders safely.

Our take on the war is that WPC's invasion has been ground down to a halt by the German team. We suspect that we'll either see some sort of counter-attack or peace treaty soon, but the reality is we're just guessing and attempting to read the graphs. We've been able to avoid tensions despite having OB with both of them by just being up-front and telling them both we intend to remain neutral. I think both teams are nervous that we might help one side, but we're doing our best to stay out of the conflict right now.

(Of course, you could always tell them that they can have Open Borders with you when they speed up their turn pace a little bit . )

Joking of course on that, but what do you guys think of another push for a shorter timer pretty soon? The last push was probably bad timing with the holidays and many players being busy, but most people should be getting back into their normal routines soon if they aren't already. For instance, last turn the German team logged in, played their turn, logged out, then we all waited 36 hours as they didn't end turn or even log in again. My main concern is I don't want teams to get bored. One turn every couple days is slow, but it's sustainable. Once you start hitting 3-4 days for a turn, I fear teams will get bored and the game might really struggle to continue into the late-game. Our team and probably your team is big enough to handle a few dropouts due to boredom, but I fear some of the smaller teams may not be so fortunate. What's your team's thought on this? I know you might have differing opinions on your team, I just wanted to try to gauge how you guys feel privately rather than publicly first.

 

[Caledorn]

Message received from RB 30.1.2013

Caledorn,

Well I guess making new contacts come in pairs, because we just met the Spanish team this turn. We stumbled upon their (well-promoted!) Impi near the floodplains to your east. That's sort of a threatening position to just sit fortified, so I hope they aren't causing you any trouble. I'm about to initiate contact with them and see where things go. Do they seem comfortable communicating in English? I ask because we have a couple Spanish speakers on our team, and I'm not sure if I should be drafting them into duty or not.

If you could give directions towards UCiv, that would actually be great. Whether we seek out the Spanish borders or attempt to meet UCiv next is something our team is still in the process of deciding, but any directions you could provide would be super helpful.

Please extend a hearty welcome to your chariot that has reached our borders! You'll be happy to know that the inside of our land is currently free of barbarians (knock on wood), so he should be very safe. We would be happy to direct you to CivPlayers if you'd like - you can get there pretty quick on our road network headed west. If you want more specific directions, let me know and I'll get those to you

 

[Caledorn]

GTalk received from Scooter/RB 05.02.2013

realmsbeyondscooter:

I've been busy and haven't been able to send an official message to you guys, but I wanted to get you the directions to CivPlayers right away
so here's what one of our turn-players wrote:
he should go NW into the great city of Adventure One, then 3SW where he can try the famed food stalls of Gourmet Menu, renowned for their clam chowder, and from there due westwards after rounding the southern tip of the sea.

The closest city of CivPlayers is 7 tiles west of Gourmet Menu, and the land is open with a few hills. We don't see any barbs there right now.
that should get you guys to CivPlayers.

 

[Caledorn]

Message received from RB 10.02.2013

Ok I have an apology to make - I thought I sent you guys this message on the 6th, and I just now noticed it was still in our drafts . I'm really, really sorry about this! Anyways, here is the full message I thought I had sent:

Caledorn,

Thanks again for directions, and I'm glad we were able to finally be a help to you in return. I think it's been a big boost for both of us. Let me know how things go once you meet CivPlayers. They may be a very small team, but they still seem to be doing quite well in this game.

As a courtesy, I wanted to inform you that we will be settling our final border city in your direction pretty soon.

Thanks!
scooter - Team RB

 

[Caledorn]

GTalk transcript with scooter/RB 10.02.2013

realmsbeyondscooter:
hey caledorn
just sent you guys a message. someone on our team just pointed out that it never sent, blah

me:
heya! I've actually been looking for you today
great - thanks - I'll look into it right away .. hold on

realmsbeyondscooter:
yeah. it was bad timing. wednesday-friday were insane for work - late nights and all that
and it just got missed somehow

me:
this is excellent
we have workers who we wish to use to build a road to connect our empires together so we can get traderoutes up and running

realmsbeyondscooter:
that "final city in your direction" has obviously been settled already, which is why I felt bad about you not getting the message before-hand.
sounds great
yeah, I think we can both make a lot of money off trade routes

me:
ah, so the city you have founded .. er .. B-something isn't it? .. that's the last one you intend to settle in our direction then?

realmsbeyondscooter:
right
it's called Starfall i believe

me:
I'm just looking for a screenshot here
just so I know we're talking about the same city

realmsbeyondscooter:
yeah no problem

me:
according to this screenshot the newest city I can see that you guys have settled near us, is located slightly to the northeast of the oasis/stone - approximately 4 tiles north and 1 tile east of the stone if I read the cultural border I can see correct?

realmsbeyondscooter:
oh no, that's an old barbarian city we captured
we just settled one 1S of the oasis

me:
ah - that means our road plans will be different than the one I meant to propose

realmsbeyondscooter:
ah okay
should still be pretty easy to road up. not that far of a distance

me:
yeah, it's easier actually
as we intended to road up to the city by the northern lake
how soon will you have the new city roaded up to your main road network (if you already haven't, which I almost assume you have) ?
this way we can just road over to that city in a straight line

realmsbeyondscooter:
ah I see. maybe this will be shorter?
let me check on that
well
it is on our main road network already

me:
1 tile less to road to the new city is it is 1S of the oasis yes
according to what I can see at least

realmsbeyondscooter:
yeah that's the spot.
should be able to get roads quickly then

me:
yeah, just a few turns for that
if you have any workers in the area that could help out with roading a few tiles from your direction, that would be great too

realmsbeyondscooter:
yeah, i'm going to check on that with my team, but I think we do

me:
the sooner we get trade routes up, the better for both of us

realmsbeyondscooter:
yep, agreed!
alright, I need to get going and do a few things. but let me know if you need anything more

me:
yeah, I have a few things to do myself - working on programming on a webpage so I should get back to that
thanks for letting me know about the email - and if you could get back to me if you guys can help with the roads, that would be great too
have a nice sunday! (hope you haven't been too much affected by the heavy snow)

realmsbeyondscooter:
thanks! you too. it's warmed up enough that we're only getting rain today haha

 

[Caledorn]

Message received from RB 14.02.2013

Caledorn,

Pass on your thanks to your team for connecting our borders! We're all very happy that we've got full routes with your team now.

Our team has taken the T100 milestone to step back and try to identify how we want to play going forward. We really would like to identify one neighbor who we can trust as a solid ally longterm, and there's a strong consensus on our team that your team is our preference. We're happy with our borders and agreements, and communication beween us has always been excellent. Our current NAP is set to be through T130. That works really nicely, but we'd like to consider extending it longterm - perhaps T175. I think this would give us both a lot of flexibility in dealing with other neighbors if we can both bank on a safe, demilitarized border for a long time. We're also certainly not married to the T175 date if you prefer longer or shorter. We'd love to include some sort of "priority resource trading" agreement too - where we would give you priority over other civs in trading for our excess resources and vice versa.

Feel free to take your time thinking about this. There's no pressure here at all since our NAP still has 30T remaining. This is certainly not a "take it or leave it" offer, we're just trying to initiate talks here. Poke me on chat whenever if you have any questions.