Diplomacy Log: Realms Beyond

[Caledorn]

Message sent to RB 16.02.2013

Scooter/RB,

We like your suggested extension of the NAP until turn 175, and your suggested status of treating one another as preferred resource trade partners. We would like to add a few things to the table, though. Since you guys have a surplus of spices and will also soon have a surplus of stone we request that you gift us one stone resource and one spice resource for the duration of the NAP. We will be getting a surplus wine soon which will be available to you since you will be our priority resource partner.

If this sounds acceptable to you guys, we consider the NAP extended to turn 175 as soon as you send us a confirmation that all the above is okay.

Caledorn on behalf of Team CFC

Followup GTalk conversation shortly after the email was received by RB

me: There we go. You've got mail
realmsbeyondscooter: thanks! Just got it. I'll pass the message onto the team.
I do have one clarifying question - the wine resources - are you implying that if accept this, you would gift that to us once we've initiated the stone/spice gifts, or you would give us first dibs to trade for it?
me: The latter
realmsbeyondscooter: ok. a teammate just quickly informed me that we're about to hook wine anyways, so my question obsoleted itself anyways
me: Ah, okay
realmsbeyondscooter: Anyways, I will try to get you feedback as timely as possible. discussion is usually a lot slower on weekends, so it may not be lightning fast
me: Great

 

[Caledorn]

GTalk transcript 17.02.2013 (a few hours after the message was sent)

realmsbeyondscooter: hey Caledorn, you got a few minutes?

me: Yeah, no problem I'm playing DOTA2, but just a practice match against bots. If I don't respond immediately it's because I'm fightimg something

realmsbeyondscooter: ok no problem! I'll just type away, you can just respond whenever you get moments

me: Perfect

realmsbeyondscooter: overall our team is pretty receptive to your full offer. we do have one or two comments/questions
we're definitely willing to gift surplus spice/stone throughout the NAP. the only glitch is the second stone is roughly 10T away from being hooked
and from the language of your message its sounds as if you're asking us to gift you stone immediately, regardless of when the stone on your border gets hooked. i'm not sure if that is possible right now... is that an issue to you if we wait until the surplus is hooked?

me: Hm. That may actually be outside my jurisdiction to respond to without team approval, so I can't really respond quickly on that one :/
However, I should be able to get a response pretty quickly (10-20 hours)

realmsbeyondscooter: Ah yeah I understand.
ok great!
that was the only potentially signfiicant glitch, but other than that we are happy with the deal
one other question
let me check a map first to make sure i have this straight, heh

me: Usually I have a great deal of leeway with what to respond, but this is a pretty important deal for both our teams, so I'd better not overstep my bounds with the team
And shoot

realmsbeyondscooter: my understanding is you guys either have a marble under your control or you have one nearby. if at all possible we'd like to make a short-term trade for that in the future if we could line it up for a 10T window that you don't need it
it's hard to give a specific date on that one obviously as I'm sort of talking loosely - it was just something a few teammates pointed out... it's just really useful for building stuff like national epic whenever we get to Lit
and I'm sure you guys will have to discuss that as well

me: I am sure that can be arranged at some point yes, but indeed you are correct that I need team approval on that one as well

realmsbeyondscooter: Yep! understood. we actually will have our own source of wine pretty soon so we probably wouldn't trade for that, but some sort of short-term marble trade in the future would be wonderful if it can be worked out
so anyways, whenever you hear about the stone thing just drop me a line. I will be around a little bit tomorrow, but you may not catch me. no rush!

me: Sounds great I will let you know as soon as I have a team response tomorrow

realmsbeyondscooter: great! also so you know - if the stone need is very pressing to you and you have a spare worker, you could help hook it and that could speed it up by a couple turns. obviously that would not be necessary, but just know that it's an option if you're in a rush to use the stone
but we're partially having to wait for Starfall's borders to pop so we can even improve it

me: That's an option too yes, so I'm sure the team will take that into consideration too.

realmsbeyondscooter: sounds great. thanks!

 

[Caledorn]

Message sent to RB 19.02.2013

scooter/RB,

The team has decided that we will settle 1S of the rice (this means we are fine with getting stone from t106 and not t105).

Here is the formal agreement I spoke of on GTalk, to be signed by your team (I have included BBCode to make it easier for you to post it on your forums):

---
Section 1. Members of the RB-CFC treaty

1.1. Team Realms Beyond

1.2. Team CivFanatics

Section 2. Pact Duration and Terms

2.1. The pact binds both teams to adhering to all of the clauses of the pact as a whole.

2.2. The pact lasts until the beginning of turn 175.

2.3. The members of this pact cannot enter into agreements with third parties which interfere to any of the clauses of this pact.

Section 3. Non Aggression

3.1. The members agree not to conduct actions which will lead to a declaration of war between the members of this pact for the duration of the pact.

Section 4. Open Borders

4.1. Both members agree to maintain an Open Borders treaty to facilitate trade and unit movement for the length of this pact.

Section 5. Resources and future agreements

5.1. Team Realms Beyond agrees to gift Spices happy resource to Team CivFanatics starting from turn 103 and keep providing it for free for the duration of this pact.

5.2. Team Realms Beyond agrees to gift Stone strategic resource to Team CivFanatics starting from turn 106 and keep providing it for free for the duration of this pact.

5.3 Team Realms Beyond agrees to not get Pyramids and Team CivFanatics agrees to not get Hanging Gardens.

5.4 Both teams agree to offer first dibs to newly acquired/unused resources to the other team at an appropriate price (happy resource for happy resource or for a price of 2 GPT per city count of the team receiving the resource)

Section 6. Espionage

6.1. Both members agree to not spend/gain espionage points against eachother.

6.2. Both members agree to not perform espionage actions against eachother .

Section 7. Temporary Exceptions

7.1. Temporary exceptions can be made to the terms of the pact with the express agreement of both members. This is meant to allow either member to react to unforeseen circumstances or circumstances outside of their control.

Section 8. Amendments

8.1. A proposed amendment may be submitted by either member.

8.2. A proposed amendment will be adopted upon agreement of both members.
-----

I think this sums up exactly what we all want from our deal, and we have no problems accepting and signing it in it's current form.

Keep in mind that any additional protective clauses that may be suggested as amendments will be a two-way deal. Both our teams wish to feel secure, so we are open to suggestions for amendments that are rational and maintains the interests of both our teams. We are working on possible additional clauses of the NAP, and we are sure we can come to an agreement on them as soon as the main body of this pact is signed, without any of our teams feeling the weight of time pressure to get this out of the way. Here are some suggestions that we think are rational to put in as clausules:

-----
3.2. If any of the members is at war with a third party, the other member agrees not to gift units to that third party.
3.3. Both teams agree not to use Great Artists to culture bomb in cities touching culture with culture of the other team.
-----

If you like the suggested amendments, you can include 3.2 and 3.3 in the treaty, and return it to us signed, and we have a deal. We want the main deal without the amendments signed this turn, as we can not afford to postpone settling our city on the isthmus any further, while the deal with the stone from you is still uncertain.

Caledorn on behalf of Team CFC

 

[Caledorn]

Message received from RB 19.02.2013

Caledorn,

One issue we discussed previously that we do really need to see added to Section 5 is this:

5.5 Team Civfanatics agrees to give Realms Beyond a 10T loan on marble at some point during the NAP. This can be arranged around CFC's builds to be a 10T window in which they will not be using the marble. RB would like this window to start no earlier than T120 and no later than T150. Both sides will make good-faith effort to be accommodating on the timing of this loan.

We also agree with your section 3.2 and 3.3 suggestions. If we can get confirmation from you that these three suggestions are officially added (3.2, 3.3, 5.5), our team will consider this document signed by both parties. We will then immediately send you the spice as a sign that the agreement is in effect.

I'll be mostly available on chat today so we can get this turned around in a timely manner.

 

[Caledorn]

GTalk transcript with scooter 19.02.2013

realmsbeyondscooter: you have mail

me: I have posted your reponse in the forum now, and I need to go to sleep very soon as I've been awake for nearly 24 hours now because I've been programming
However, before I go, I would just like to say quickly that I see no problem with what you have suggested

realmsbeyondscooter: ok, yeah get some sleep! and that's good - looking forward to hearing official word whenever
if somebody else on your team needs to get ahold of me in your place, feel free to pass on my contact info

me: you may hear from another member on my team
hah. bazinga

realmsbeyondscooter: oh, hah, great minds think alike
sounds good

me: as long as there is no other addendums that need to be discussed and both our teams agree to the deal in it's entirety with point 3.2, 3.3 and 5.5 as you have suggested, I'll just tell the other guys on the team to send you a confirmation email that we agree to the deal
and with that confirmation email, we both can consider the deal binding and signed

realmsbeyondscooter: sounds good! thanks

 

[2metraninja]

So it is official:

CivFanatics Team <diplo.civfanatics@gmail.com>

11:25 PM (48 minutes ago)

to Realms
Hey scooter/RB,

I am happy to confirm that we are in agreement. The entire treaty, with the addendums 3.2, 3.3 and 5.5 officially added, is hereby accepted and signed by Team CFC.

Realms Beyond

11:53 PM (20 minutes ago)

to me
Caledorn,

Great, thanks! We will gift the spices to you immediately.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

 

[Caledorn]

Message sent 04.03.2013

Hey scooter/RB,

As you already know, we were attacked by Spanish Apolyton. To help us beat them back we would like a loan from you of 300 gold. We will start repaying with GPT after the tenth turn from the date of receiving the loan.

Caledorn on behalf of Team CFC

 

[Caledorn]

Message received 05.03.2013

Caledorn,

Sorry, but we're going to have to pass on the loan right now. 300g is a pretty hefty sum at this point in the game, and it would seriously damage our planning. We prefer to be neutral in other teams' wars. The Spanish team actually just asked us to provide them with help, and of course we immediately shot them down too. We want you to succeed in your war with the Spanish team due to our partnership, but I'm afraid we're going to have to hang on to our gold here. Hope this is ok with you guys.

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

 

[Caledorn]

Message received 03.04.2013

Caledorn,

Just checking in, how's things going for you guys? The Zulu aren't giving you too much trouble are they? A severely belated congratulations on landing the Pyramids by the way.

Do you guys have an ETA on when you will hook your marble?

 

[Caledorn]

Message sent 29.04.2013

Scooter/RB,

Thank you for your offer to trade world maps. We currently have explored the lands we need, so we are not interested in a map trade at this point.

Caledorn, on behalf of Team CFC

 

[Caledorn]

Message sent 15.05.2013

Greetings RB Friends,

We needed our marble until very recently, and we will need our marble for our own plans again in about 15 turns, so we must insist you make a choice: Either you take the marble within the next 5 turns (t140-145), or we will have to waive our original agreed deadline and re-arrange our deal as we will then be outside of the turn 150 window.

We can't delay another ten turns because that is when we will be needing it back. We are prepared to offer it in-game now. If you do not accept it within the timeframe that we had agreed to, then we will have to try to come to a new one. I'm sure you understand as we both agreed that the gift could be arranged around both our teams needs for marble.

Thanks,
Caledorn, Foreign Minister of Team CFC

 

[Caledorn]

Message received 16.05.2013

Caledorn,

We've been thinking about how to come to a more agreeable deal. We don't have much use for the marble right this minute, and it's unfortunate that later in our agreement it's not available. How about we compromise - we extend the NAP portion of our agreement from T175 to T200, and that means expanding the marble trade window so that we can agree on a mutually beneficial trade period. Does that work for you?

Thanks,
scooter - Team RB

 

[Caledorn]

Google Hangouts talk with scooter 27.05.2013

scooter: you around?

me: Yes

scooter: Hey, so I don't have tons of time, so I'll get to the two things
1) We'll take the marble for 10 turns on T165. There, we can stop discussing that silly thing
2) You pretty clearly ignored the NAP comments. So, direct question. Do you guys want peace to last longer than T175 or no?

me: As for 1, that sounds very good
As for 2, I can't respond to that as I can't bind the team into any agreements of that magnitude. But I will post it in the team forums, and we will discuss it

scooter: Well, we did ask about it something like 8-9 days ago, so I'm sure you guys have discussed it and you have a good idea of how the team feels

me: Actually, I haven't been all that much around due to real life, so most of my time with the game has been spent with the troubles with the server. I'm not very much up to speed on what's going on right now. :-(
I was going to send a suggestion to you about the marble more than a week ago (which included t165 as a suggestion, so that response is now redundant)
You may have to deal with a different diplomat if things doesn't calm down for me

scooter: Ok yeah I understand. The last message just seemed like a clear choice to avoid the NAP issue. That seems like a bright red flashing sign that you don't want a NAP past T175.
We will have a lot of explosive toys to play with at T175, and it seems we have a couple of NAPs ending vaguely around that time. So given that's only 25T away, it's our job now to gauge who is interested in keeping peace and who isn't.

me: Sorry, my grandmother called. I have to make another phone call :-( I will ask someone on the team to step in for me as diplomat until things calm down, and ask them to contact you. I will post this chat on the team forums
My head is spinning at the moment. Too much going on RL, so I am unable to conduct proper diplomacy.

scooter: Ok, yeah totally understand things getting crazy. Hope everything's alright. If you have someone else take your place temporarily, feel free to pass on my email address if they want to chat directly instead of email
Ah sorry. Hope things get better!

me: I will do that
Thank you. And please don't think this a ruse to delay things, because it really isn't

scooter: Yeah I understand, apologies if I came across sounding a little too paranoid. It's a necessary evil sometimes

me: I know. It could have been a ruse, and it would not be unheard of at all. So I understand. I can explain to you later. Right now I have to make that call though. Will post on the team forums after that.

scooter: Yep, no problem. I'll let you go, ttyl!

 

[Arkipeller]

so... who are going to replace you?

Me? Maga?

 

[Maga_R]

so... who are going to replace you?

Me? Maga?

I am too busy in RL now even to be your "too busy" diplomat ;-) Arki, I am afraid Yossarian already took the job, but I will not compete with you for the "defunct diplomat" position, if still available

 

[YossarianLives]

Message sent to Scooter's personal email address from my personal email address on May 27, 2013 (sorry Arki if I jumped the gun here and you were hoping to take over)

Hi Scooter!

Caledorn hasn't been able to participate in the ISDG too much recently, so he asked if I could help out with diplo duties. If you need any quick communication, feel free to hit me up on GTalk (or I guess it's "hangouts" now?). I also have Skype if you prefer that: victor.hinderliter.

YossarianLives

 

[Arkipeller]

Message sent to Scooter's personal email address from my personal email address on May 27, 2013 (sorry Arki if I jumped the gun here and you were hoping to take over)

lol. That is really not a worry. I'll slack here on chat with Maga instead.

 

[Maga_R]

accidental double post

 

[Maga_R]

lol. That is really not a worry. I'll slack here on chat with Maga instead.

Should I send you my skype id then? The in-game chat is horrible and we are not supposed to use it yet anyway. Would love to chat with you, too, but we should probably take it away from this log thread - get ourselves a chat room ;-)

 

[Arkipeller]

Should I send you my skype id then? The in-game chat is horrible and we are not supposed to use it yet anyway. Would love to chat with you, too, but we should probably take it away from this log thread - get ourselves a chat room ;-)

arkipeller